Lost Submersible

[Eric]

So, what are your theories on its fate? Personally, I think a US Naval vessel ran into it.

[Batesmotel]

How deep was it when they lost contact?

[Eric]

10 minutes ago, Batesmotel said:

How deep was it when they lost contact?

They say it takes 1 hour and 45 minutes to reach the bottom and they lost contact 100 minutes into the dive. They must have been below 12,000 feet, I would think.

[Eric]

Getting entangled in something doesn’t explain the lack of communication. It seems like the only two options that would account for that would be a complete power failure or a catastrophic failure of the vessel. If they don’t make it, an implosion would be a far kinder way to go. Even if they are bobbing on the surface somewhere, they are still stuck inside and running out of air. They also reportedly only took one bottle of water and one sandwich per person down with them. Whatever happened, they paid $250k apiece for the experience. 

[Batesmotel]

At 12K I bet it folded. 

[Gunboat1]

Not knowing anything about the design of the boat, I can't speculate on what might have happened to cause them to lose contact and still be adrift or sitting on the bottom alive.  I just saw a report that a search aircraft is monitoring banging noises at half hour intervals, so perhaps they are still OK for a little while longer.  Even if so, their odds are extremely long.  That depth is an incredibly formidable obstacle to a successful recovery.

 

If they imploded, they never knew it.  It would have been mercilessly swift.

 

God bless and keep them, either way.

[Batesmotel]

New York Times article is saying the chief engineer was fired for demanding testing on the viewports. He said they were only certified to 1300 meters. The wreck is at 3200 meters. The Times won’t let me link the story. Someone can probably link it. 

[Fog]

Seems like short of it crushing a loss of power is most likely. But they should have manual valves to surface. Next option is crew was overcome by gas of some sort. Could be a fire from lithium batteries if they used them? The more I think about the systems for a dive like that, a cascade of failures is possible from a handful of different initial events.

Coast Guard said it was a recovery mission. That means for some reason they don't think there is anyone to rescue. Most people seem to know this, but the media wants to imply hope to drive hype and get views, clicks, etc.

[ChuteTheMall]

First world problems

[gwalchmai]

I think it's

[DAKA]

22 minutes ago, gwalchmai said:

I think it's

Play stupid games, wnd stupid prizes 

[pipedreams]

[gwalchmai]

56 minutes ago, DAKA said:

Play stupid games, wnd stupid prizes 

Not stupid. They took an informed and educated risk and lost.

I applaud their audacity and thank them for the inspiration and entertainment. I only detract points for their lack of a live feed. 

[DAKA]

1 hour ago, gwalchmai said:

Not stupid. They took an informed and educated risk and lost.

I applaud their audacity and thank them for the inspiration and entertainment. I only detract points for their lack of a live feed. 

Sorry but, to me that was a STUPID egotistical risk...You could not PAY me enough money to do something like that

Sam goes for JUMPING out of airplanes ETC   

IF you GOTTA" do it fine, but otherwise NFW

I take my chances DRIVING on I 95 every so often....

[Walt Longmire]

I'm hopeful for a positive outcome but feel it's unlikely.

[gwalchmai]

54 minutes ago, DAKA said:

Sorry but, to me that was a STUPID egotistical risk...You could not PAY me enough money to do something like that

Sam goes for JUMPING out of airplanes ETC   

IF you GOTTA" do it fine, but otherwise NFW

I take my chances DRIVING on I 95 every so often....

Yeah, it's probably not something I would do, even if I had that kind of very discretionary cash lying aboot. By the same token there are many here among us (not here on the BoreSite, but here on Earth) who consider owning a gun to be a stupid egotistical risk. Ooh bla di, ooh bla da. Long as they don't make me do it, and I get to poke fun at 'em, I'm OK.  

[M&P15T]

4 hours ago, gwalchmai said:

Not stupid. They took an informed and educated risk and lost.

I applaud their audacity and thank them for the inspiration and entertainment. I only detract points for their lack of a live feed. 

Any rational person that had factual knowledge and understanding of the craft (submersible) and the person in charge, wouldn't get on board that POS. So either they did not have access to all the pertinent information, yet still decided to go ahead with the trip, OR they did have all the information and still chose to go ahead with the trip.

Either way it was an extremely stupid decision that cost them their lives. 

That submersible was a massive POS, and the people who ran the shindig were morons with no experience in submersibles, who actively refused to involve anyone with any real knowledge or experience. Because, by their own statements, 50 year old ex-Navy submariner white guys aren't "inspiring".

You'd have to be bovine stupid to get into that tub, with that guy. 

FWIW, they're all dead. The submersible was made of carbon fiber, and it simply shattered at depth. They all died quick. 

[Al Czervik]

Alex, I'll take dead people in a submersible for $200.  

A.  I'd never get into that little space with a bunch of smelly dudes.

B.  If it was going down more than 50 feet, I want some former hardcore geek from Electric Boat or similar give his stamp and kick the tires.

C.  The smelly dudes thing again.

[Borg warner]

Here's the latest news:

Coast Guard confirms 'Banging Noises" heard on search for sub.

 

The US Coast Guard is bringing in more ships, vessels to search for lost Titanic tourist submersible Rescuers race against clock after noises heard from 

Titanic vessel search area

 

PATRICK WHITTLE and HOLLY RAMER Tue, June 20, 2023 Associated Press

 

A Canadian surveillance vessel has detected more underwater noises in the area where rescuers are searching for a submersible that went missing in the North Atlantic while bringing five people down to the wreck of the Titanic, authorities said Wednesday. Coast Guard officials were bringing in more ships and other vessels to search the more narrowly defined area, though the exact location and source of the sounds has not yet been determined. The full scope of the search was twice the size of Connecticut in waters 2 1/2 miles deep, said Captain Jamie Frederick of the First Coast Guard District.

“This is a search and rescue mission, 100%,” Frederick said. “We are smack dab in the middle of search and rescue and we'll continue to put every available asset that we have in an effort to find the Titan and the crew members.”

Frederick said the noises were heard for a second day Wednesday, but “we don't know what they are, to be frank.”

Retired Navy Capt. Carl Hartsfield, now the director of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Systems Laboratory, told a news conference Wednesday that the sounds have been described as “banging noises,” but warned that search crews “have to put the whole picture together in context and they have to eliminate potential manmade sources other than the Titan.” Even those who expressed some optimism warned that many obstacles remain: from pinpointing the vessel's location, to reaching it with rescue equipment, to bringing it to the surface — assuming it's still intact — before the passengers' oxygen supply runs out.

The area of the North Atlantic where the Titan submersible went missing on Sunday is prone to fog and stormy conditions, making it an extremely challenging environment to conduct a search-and-rescue mission, said Donald Murphy, an oceanographer who served as chief scientist of the Coast Guard’s International Ice Patrol. After a Canadian military surveillance aircraft detected underwater noises in the search area, a robotic vessel was sent to scour the region but had so far “yielded negative results,” the Coast Guard wrote on Twitter. The Coast Guard did not elaborate on what rescuers believed the noises could be. The vessel is estimated to have as little as a day's worth of oxygen left if it is still functioning.

Three search vessels arrived on-scene Wednesday morning, including one that has side-scanning sonar capabilities. Authorities pushed to get salvage equipment to the scene in case the submersible is found. The Coast Guard statement about detecting sounds underwater came after Rolling Stone reported that search teams heard “banging sounds in the area every 30 minutes.” The report was encouraging to some experts because submarine crews unable to communicate with the surface are taught to bang on their submersible’s hull to be detected by sonar.

 

It sends a message that you’re probably using military techniques to find me and this is how I’m saying it," said Frank Owen, a submarine search and rescue expert. "So, that’s really encouraging if that’s the case.” Richard Garriott de Cayeux, the president of The Explorers Club, wrote an open letter to his club’s adventurers, saying he had “much greater confidence” about the search after speaking to officials in Congress, the U.S. military and the White House. However, no official has publicly suggested they know the source of the underwater noises.

Meanwhile, questions remain about how teams could reach the lost submersible, which could be as deep as about 12,500 feet (3,800 meters) below the surface near the watery tomb of the historic ocean liner. Newly uncovered allegations also suggest there had been significant warnings made about vessel safety during its development

Lost aboard the vessel are pilot Stockton Rush, the CEO of the company leading the expedition. His passengers are a British adventurer, two members of a Pakistani business family and a Titanic expert.

Authorities reported the 22-foot carbon-fiber vessel overdue Sunday night, setting off the search in waters about 435 miles (700 kilometers) south of St. John’s. The submersible had a four-day oxygen supply when it put to sea around 6 a.m. Sunday, according to David Concannon, an adviser to OceanGate Expeditions, which oversaw the mission. Owen said the estimated 96-hour oxygen supply is a useful “target” for searchers, but is only based on a “nominal amount of consumption the average human might consume in doing certain things.” Owen said the diver on board the Titan would likely be advising passengers to “do anything to reduce your metabolic levels so that you can actually extend this 96 hours.”

Chris Brown, a British adventurer who paid a deposit to go on the Titan voyage but later withdrew because of what he called safety concerns, said word that the searchers have heard sounds is both good news and bad news. “If the sounds are coming from below the water indicator then that indicates that they may be alive in the water, but now we’ve got time pressures in getting them up to the surface,” Brown told ABC’s “Good Morning America” Wednesday.

The submersible had seven backup systems to return to the surface, including sandbags and lead pipes that drop off and an inflatable balloon. Aaron Newman, who has been a passenger on the Titan, told NBC’s “Today” show Wednesday that if the submersible is below a couple hundred meters and without power, the passengers are in complete darkness and it's cold. “It was cold when we were at the bottom,” he said. “You had layered up. You had wool hats on and were doing everything to stay warm at the bottom.” Jeff Karson, a professor emeritus of earth and environmental sciences at Syracuse University, said the temperature is just above freezing, and the vessel is too deep for human divers to get to it. The best chance to reach the submersible could be to use a remotely operated robot on a fiber optic cable, he said.

“I am sure it is horrible down there,” Karson said. “It is like being in a snow cave and hypothermia is a real danger.” Meanwhile, documents show that OceanGate had been warned there might be catastrophic safety problems posed by the way the experimental vessel was developed. David Lochridge, OceanGate’s director of marine operations, said in a 2018 lawsuit that the company’s testing and certification was insufficient and would “subject passengers to potential extreme danger in an experimental submersible.”The company insisted that Lochridge was “not an engineer and was not hired or asked to perform engineering services on the Titan.” The firm also says the vessel under development was a prototype, not the now-missing Titan.

The Marine Technology Society, which describes itself as “a professional group of ocean engineers, technologists, policy-makers, and educators,” also expressed concern that year in a letter to Rush, OceanGate’s chief executive. The society said it was critical that the company submit its prototype to tests overseen by an expert third party before launching in order to safeguard passengers. The New York Times first reported on those documents.The search for the missing vessel has drawn international attention. In Dubai, where the missing British adventurer Hamish Harding lives, Crown Prince Hamadan bin Mohammed Al Maktoum wrote: “Dubai and its people pray for their safety and hopeful return home.”

Others aboard include Pakistani nationals Shahzada Dawood and his son Suleman, whose eponymous firm invests across the country. In Pakistan's port city of Karachi, employees at his firms said they prayed for the two's safe return, as did government officials. French explorer and Titanic expert Paul-Henry Nargeolet also was on the vessel. Retired Navy Vice Admiral Robert Murrett, who is now deputy director of the Institute for Security Policy and Law at Syracuse University, said the disappearance of the submersible underscores the dangers associated with operating in deep water and the recreational exploration of the sea and space, "two environments where in recent past we’ve seen people operate in hazardous, potentially lethal environments,” Murrett said.

“I think some people believe that because modern technology is so good, that you can do things like this and not have accidents, but that’s just not the case," he said.

___

Associated Press writers Jon Gambrell in Dubai, United Arab Emirates; and Munir Ahmed in Islamabad contributed to this report.

 

 

[Borg warner]

6 hours ago, pipedreams said:

I can't get the video to rewind and start.

[pipedreams]

11 minutes ago, Borg warner said:

I can't get the video to rewind and start.

Sorry about that, it's just a screen shot of the video since the video format won't play on BS.  Do a search of "Video of oceangate CEO" and you will find a number of videos you can view.

[minervadoe]

"According to the U.S. Coast Guard, the missing OceanGate Titan submarine should run out of breathable air by Thursday morning ¹. The occupants of the submersible have limited supplies, including oxygen, to survive for about four days or less. The submersible has a 96-hour emergency sustainment capability, which would include oxygen and fuel."

[M&P15T]

1 hour ago, Borg warner said:

Here's the latest news:

Coast Guard confirms 'Banging Noises" heard on search for sub.

 

The US Coast Guard is bringing in more ships, vessels to search for lost Titanic tourist submersible Rescuers race against clock after noises heard from 

Titanic vessel search area

 

PATRICK WHITTLE and HOLLY RAMER Tue, June 20, 2023 Associated Press

 

A Canadian surveillance vessel has detected more underwater noises in the area where rescuers are searching for a submersible that went missing in the North Atlantic while bringing five people down to the wreck of the Titanic, authorities said Wednesday. Coast Guard officials were bringing in more ships and other vessels to search the more narrowly defined area, though the exact location and source of the sounds has not yet been determined. The full scope of the search was twice the size of Connecticut in waters 2 1/2 miles deep, said Captain Jamie Frederick of the First Coast Guard District.

“This is a search and rescue mission, 100%,” Frederick said. “We are smack dab in the middle of search and rescue and we'll continue to put every available asset that we have in an effort to find the Titan and the crew members.”

Frederick said the noises were heard for a second day Wednesday, but “we don't know what they are, to be frank.”

Retired Navy Capt. Carl Hartsfield, now the director of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Systems Laboratory, told a news conference Wednesday that the sounds have been described as “banging noises,” but warned that search crews “have to put the whole picture together in context and they have to eliminate potential manmade sources other than the Titan.” Even those who expressed some optimism warned that many obstacles remain: from pinpointing the vessel's location, to reaching it with rescue equipment, to bringing it to the surface — assuming it's still intact — before the passengers' oxygen supply runs out.

The area of the North Atlantic where the Titan submersible went missing on Sunday is prone to fog and stormy conditions, making it an extremely challenging environment to conduct a search-and-rescue mission, said Donald Murphy, an oceanographer who served as chief scientist of the Coast Guard’s International Ice Patrol. After a Canadian military surveillance aircraft detected underwater noises in the search area, a robotic vessel was sent to scour the region but had so far “yielded negative results,” the Coast Guard wrote on Twitter. The Coast Guard did not elaborate on what rescuers believed the noises could be. The vessel is estimated to have as little as a day's worth of oxygen left if it is still functioning.

Three search vessels arrived on-scene Wednesday morning, including one that has side-scanning sonar capabilities. Authorities pushed to get salvage equipment to the scene in case the submersible is found. The Coast Guard statement about detecting sounds underwater came after Rolling Stone reported that search teams heard “banging sounds in the area every 30 minutes.” The report was encouraging to some experts because submarine crews unable to communicate with the surface are taught to bang on their submersible’s hull to be detected by sonar.

 

It sends a message that you’re probably using military techniques to find me and this is how I’m saying it," said Frank Owen, a submarine search and rescue expert. "So, that’s really encouraging if that’s the case.” Richard Garriott de Cayeux, the president of The Explorers Club, wrote an open letter to his club’s adventurers, saying he had “much greater confidence” about the search after speaking to officials in Congress, the U.S. military and the White House. However, no official has publicly suggested they know the source of the underwater noises.

Meanwhile, questions remain about how teams could reach the lost submersible, which could be as deep as about 12,500 feet (3,800 meters) below the surface near the watery tomb of the historic ocean liner. Newly uncovered allegations also suggest there had been significant warnings made about vessel safety during its development

Lost aboard the vessel are pilot Stockton Rush, the CEO of the company leading the expedition. His passengers are a British adventurer, two members of a Pakistani business family and a Titanic expert.

Authorities reported the 22-foot carbon-fiber vessel overdue Sunday night, setting off the search in waters about 435 miles (700 kilometers) south of St. John’s. The submersible had a four-day oxygen supply when it put to sea around 6 a.m. Sunday, according to David Concannon, an adviser to OceanGate Expeditions, which oversaw the mission. Owen said the estimated 96-hour oxygen supply is a useful “target” for searchers, but is only based on a “nominal amount of consumption the average human might consume in doing certain things.” Owen said the diver on board the Titan would likely be advising passengers to “do anything to reduce your metabolic levels so that you can actually extend this 96 hours.”

Chris Brown, a British adventurer who paid a deposit to go on the Titan voyage but later withdrew because of what he called safety concerns, said word that the searchers have heard sounds is both good news and bad news. “If the sounds are coming from below the water indicator then that indicates that they may be alive in the water, but now we’ve got time pressures in getting them up to the surface,” Brown told ABC’s “Good Morning America” Wednesday.

The submersible had seven backup systems to return to the surface, including sandbags and lead pipes that drop off and an inflatable balloon. Aaron Newman, who has been a passenger on the Titan, told NBC’s “Today” show Wednesday that if the submersible is below a couple hundred meters and without power, the passengers are in complete darkness and it's cold. “It was cold when we were at the bottom,” he said. “You had layered up. You had wool hats on and were doing everything to stay warm at the bottom.” Jeff Karson, a professor emeritus of earth and environmental sciences at Syracuse University, said the temperature is just above freezing, and the vessel is too deep for human divers to get to it. The best chance to reach the submersible could be to use a remotely operated robot on a fiber optic cable, he said.

“I am sure it is horrible down there,” Karson said. “It is like being in a snow cave and hypothermia is a real danger.” Meanwhile, documents show that OceanGate had been warned there might be catastrophic safety problems posed by the way the experimental vessel was developed. David Lochridge, OceanGate’s director of marine operations, said in a 2018 lawsuit that the company’s testing and certification was insufficient and would “subject passengers to potential extreme danger in an experimental submersible.”The company insisted that Lochridge was “not an engineer and was not hired or asked to perform engineering services on the Titan.” The firm also says the vessel under development was a prototype, not the now-missing Titan.

The Marine Technology Society, which describes itself as “a professional group of ocean engineers, technologists, policy-makers, and educators,” also expressed concern that year in a letter to Rush, OceanGate’s chief executive. The society said it was critical that the company submit its prototype to tests overseen by an expert third party before launching in order to safeguard passengers. The New York Times first reported on those documents.The search for the missing vessel has drawn international attention. In Dubai, where the missing British adventurer Hamish Harding lives, Crown Prince Hamadan bin Mohammed Al Maktoum wrote: “Dubai and its people pray for their safety and hopeful return home.”

Others aboard include Pakistani nationals Shahzada Dawood and his son Suleman, whose eponymous firm invests across the country. In Pakistan's port city of Karachi, employees at his firms said they prayed for the two's safe return, as did government officials. French explorer and Titanic expert Paul-Henry Nargeolet also was on the vessel. Retired Navy Vice Admiral Robert Murrett, who is now deputy director of the Institute for Security Policy and Law at Syracuse University, said the disappearance of the submersible underscores the dangers associated with operating in deep water and the recreational exploration of the sea and space, "two environments where in recent past we’ve seen people operate in hazardous, potentially lethal environments,” Murrett said.

“I think some people believe that because modern technology is so good, that you can do things like this and not have accidents, but that’s just not the case," he said.

___

Associated Press writers Jon Gambrell in Dubai, United Arab Emirates; and Munir Ahmed in Islamabad contributed to this report.

 

 

Translation;

They heard noises. They have 0 idea if it was from the submersible, or something clanking around in the deep ocean currents. And that was a day or two ago.

Much ado about nothing.

[railfancwb]

7 hours ago, pipedreams said:

Is this the same attitude currently on display in the United States’ military?

[ChuteTheMall]