Mrs.Cicero Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 So, when your pastor declares from the pulpit that 1) daughters are like sports cars that fathers give the key to, to other men to test drive (W.T.ACTUAL.F.) and women are a stumbling block to men and women's lack of modest apparel is the cause of men's sinful behaviors... I think it's time to quit the church. Also, I have to wonder if the pastor has/d an affair or a porn addiction and this is the fallout. Or he's got a brain tumor and has lost his mind. (Although in this case the entire Board of Elders would also have to be afflicted, since they are going along with all his crazy new rules, and breaking policy whenever it's convenient, and keeping it only when it gets the pastor his way). And I'm nowhere near as angry as my daughters (This is their first experience with this sort of thing. I'm... old, tired, and utterly disgusted, but no longer surprised by imbecility, and I lack the energy to get near as riled as I would have when I first ran into it decades ago). I can't keep a mad up all day anymore. I'll go back to reading the ancient Stoics now. I have found their writings far more helpful and applicable than anything that moron has ever said. Rant off/Vent over 1 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batesmotel Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 You don’t talk about women that way. I’d be shopping new churches. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPTim Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Batesmotel said: You don’t talk about women that way. I’d be shopping new churches. Me too. From my misogynistic point of view, your pastor is an imbecile. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipedreams Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 While I agree with you, this sort of thing is happening more and more in the churches. Pressure from the top to accept the so called new world is never been greater. Just like the school teachers and the school boards the churches are feeling the same pressure. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Cicero Posted May 2, 2022 Author Share Posted May 2, 2022 44 minutes ago, pipedreams said: While I agree with you, this sort of thing is happening more and more in the churches. Pressure from the top to accept the so called new world is never been greater. Just like the school teachers and the school boards the churches are feeling the same pressure. Well that's horrifying! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huaco Kid Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 2 hours ago, pipedreams said: While I agree with you, this sort of thing is happening more and more in the churches. Pressure from the top to accept the so called new world is never been greater. Just like the school teachers and the school boards the churches are feeling the same pressure. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostinTexas Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 8 hours ago, Mrs.Cicero said: So, when your pastor declares from the pulpit that 1) daughters are like sports cars that fathers give the key to, to other men to test drive (W.T.ACTUAL.F.) and women are a stumbling block to men and women's lack of modest apparel is the cause of men's sinful behaviors... I think it's time to quit the church. Also, I have to wonder if the pastor has/d an affair or a porn addiction and this is the fallout. Or he's got a brain tumor and has lost his mind. (Although in this case the entire Board of Elders would also have to be afflicted, since they are going along with all his crazy new rules, and breaking policy whenever it's convenient, and keeping it only when it gets the pastor his way). And I'm nowhere near as angry as my daughters (This is their first experience with this sort of thing. I'm... old, tired, and utterly disgusted, but no longer surprised by imbecility, and I lack the energy to get near as riled as I would have when I first ran into it decades ago). I can't keep a mad up all day anymore. I'll go back to reading the ancient Stoics now. I have found their writings far more helpful and applicable than anything that moron has ever said. Rant off/Vent over LostWife worked long and hard to get me back into a church. I told her what always happened, and it wasn't too far fetched from your story, and she said that it never happened to her. OK, we went, joined, and she became an active minister to the kids dept. It took a lot of time. Before long, my job was being questioned, because I worked some Sundays, our way of life was questioned, because no one "needs" guns or to hunt, our child raising was in question, and a host of other things. We overlooked it since we didn't think much of the peoples opinions that were doing all the talking. Then the pastor got in on it. FIL was taking all this on over the past few months and called a meeting. He had been a Deacon, a long time associate Pastor, and a lot of other things for the local church and the district for many decades. He told pastor and district admin that showed up, under no uncertain terms that they need to get right. Pastor can go, and the others need to be corrected by pastor before his departure. It didn't happen. He handed them the plaque they gave him for 50 years of service and walked out. I already made my mind up, and didn't attend. Nothing good could have come of it anyway. I have my relationship. It is mine and that has never wavered. The unwashed that seem to be worrying about everything they shouldn't seems to be infiltrating, and I have no place around it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbie18 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 With two daughters of my own, I think I would be pretty pissed off. They choose to be pretty modest on their own, and I don't see how it's any of the pastor's business. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
railfancwb Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 2 hours ago, pipedreams said: While I agree with you, this sort of thing is happening more and more in the churches. Pressure from the top to accept the so called new world is never been greater. Just like the school teachers and the school boards the churches are feeling the same pressure. When churches - individual congregations and entire denominations - accepted the “goodness” of a not-for-profit 501(c)3 income tax classification they also accepted the federal bit in the mouth and its neck rein. Churches with this tax classification find a lengthening list of topics not to be discussed from the pulpit Mr Baldwin has long been a vocal opponent of churches selling their souls for the pottage of an income tax classification https://chuckbaldwinlive.com/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipedreams Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 minute ago, railfancwb said: When churches - individual congregations and entire denominations - accepted the “goodness” of a not-for-profit 501(c)3 income tax classification they also accepted the federal bit in the mouth and its neck rein. Churches with this tax classification find a lengthening list of topics not to be discussed from the pulpit Mr Baldwin has long been a vocal opponent of churches selling their souls for the pottage of an income tax classification https://chuckbaldwinlive.com/ This true, I didn't want to get long winded in my answer so I did not go into detail, Good example is the churches being involved with illegal immigration and the poor. Can you imagine the strings attached when the government says to the churches here is some money to take care of the needy and down trodden. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuteTheMall Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 This is why there has always been more than one church from which to choose. Seven poor choices in Revelations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostinTexas Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, ChuteTheMall said: This is why there has always been more than one church from which to choose. Seven poor choices in Revelations. I don't tell that story often. It is what it is and I've had a good run of bad luck. Bashing isn't the goal. Some need a good laundering and that will come from within, or they will be gone. The large majority do good things for their denomination, community, members, and outreach. They do it on their dime too. The drama just became more than I though I should deal with. I know me., Feelings were about to be damaged, and I would have been the bad guy as usual. Funny thing about treating people the way they treat you. It is frowned upon. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAKA Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 IF I wanted to get PERMANENTLY BANNED from this message board I'd TELL YOU HOW I REALLY FEEL (It involves MINDING YOUR OWN BUSINESS and DOING THE RIGHT THING) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAKA Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janice6 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 5 hours ago, kerbie18 said: With two daughters of my own, I think I would be pretty pissed off. They choose to be pretty modest on their own, and I don't see how it's any of the pastor's business. I had three sisters and three daughters. People that talk like that pastor and make references that they apply to my daughters, are scum and I will not tolerate them or their perversions. I love my son and daughters and treat them equally with expectations that are the same for both. I just will not tolerate pricks and perverts talking like that about women. It shows they have no regard or respect for them. F'em!!!!!!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Cicero Posted May 2, 2022 Author Share Posted May 2, 2022 Well, I'm resigning my position on the Worship team, because I don't want anyone to get the idea that since I'm standing on the stage, I must support what they've done/are doing. I'm not volunteering for any position doing anything, because I don't appreciate the idea that they think 14 year old boys have authority over my 53 year old a$$. And I'm working on my letter revoking my membership, because a) they changed a good policy that had worked for decades (no women pastors or elders, ALL teachers of any gender had to have their curriculum and character approved to teach, and they taught only with the express approval and under the authority of the elders) and without telling anyone they were doing it (to a rule of no women co-teaching anything with their husbands, no women teaching any "man" over the age of 13, or 15, or something, having XX chromosomes mean you can only teach other XX chromosome and children under whatever age they finally decide is young enough- they keep changing the age, which tells you how unsure of their position they actually are). Anyway, they didn't tell anyone about this change, they just implemented it on the sly two years ago, and then the pastor claimed he and elders were going thru a "study" on the subject, and would release a position paper (which they didn't), and then they changed the policy on a majority (NOT UNANIMOUS) vote, even though elder board policy for decades had been to only do things on a unanimous vote (if it wasn't unanimous, it just wasn't done) - and this was after they told us the reason they didn't go forward with the mission trip this year with our former pastor's new church (which has its head on way straighter about women) was because the vote wasn't UNANIMOUS (because they are apparently using standard policy when it gets "our" pastor what he wants, and then throwing it out the window when that's what it takes to ram his idiocy thru). Hypocritical. Highly hypocritical. Highly, highly... Anyway, I'm not even quitting on the grounds I disagree with their interpretation of the allowable roles of women in the Bible, I'm quitting because church leadership is secretive, non-transparent, devious, hypocritical, and has broken that church beyond repair. it sucks because we joined this church when it knew the difference between doctrine that directly concerned salvation, and arguable Biblical positions that were secondary to that. We tolerated just about any secondary position. Apparently not any more. To their eventual demise, I suspect. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janice6 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, Mrs.Cicero said: Well, I'm resigning my position on the Worship team, because I don't want anyone to get the idea that since I'm standing on the stage, I must support what they've done/are doing. I'm not volunteering for any position doing anything, because I don't appreciate the idea that they think 14 year old boys have authority over my 53 year old a$$. And I'm working on my letter revoking my membership, because a) they changed a good policy that had worked for decades (no women pastors or elders, ALL teachers of any gender had to have their curriculum and character approved to teach, and they taught only with the express approval and under the authority of the elders) and without telling anyone they were doing it (to a rule of no women co-teaching anything with their husbands, no women teaching any "man" over the age of 13, or 15, or something, having XX chromosomes mean you can only teach other XX chromosome and children under whatever age they finally decide is young enough- they keep changing the age, which tells you how unsure of their position they actually are). Anyway, they didn't tell anyone about this change, they just implemented it on the sly two years ago, and then the pastor claimed he and elders were going thru a "study" on the subject, and would release a position paper (which they didn't), and then they changed the policy on a majority (NOT UNANIMOUS) vote, even though elder board policy for decades had been to only do things on a unanimous vote (if it wasn't unanimous, it just wasn't done) - and this was after they told us the reason they didn't go forward with the mission trip this year with our former pastor's new church (which has its head on way straighter about women) was because the vote wasn't UNANIMOUS (because they are apparently using standard policy when it gets "our" pastor what he wants, and then throwing it out the window when that's what it takes to ram his idiocy thru). Hypocritical. Highly hypocritical. Highly, highly... Anyway, I'm not even quitting on the grounds I disagree with their interpretation of the allowable roles of women in the Bible, I'm quitting because church leadership is secretive, non-transparent, devious, hypocritical, and has broken that church beyond repair. it sucks because we joined this church when it knew the difference between doctrine that directly concerned salvation, and arguable Biblical positions that were secondary to that. We tolerated just about any secondary position. Apparently not any more. To their eventual demise, I suspect. I understood very early on that the church was a business and it was being conducted for the benefit of those in charge. God didn't claim that the church was necessary. Just that the person have faith in him. No one is between you and God. No one is a "better Christian" than you. If they believe they are, that's proof they aren't! Belief in God is right, belief in man has to be earned. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAKA Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, Mrs.Cicero said: Well, I'm resigning my position on the Worship team, because I don't want anyone to get the idea that since I'm standing on the stage, I must support what they've done/are doing. I'm not volunteering for any position doing anything, because I don't appreciate the idea that they think 14 year old boys have authority over my 53 year old a$$. And I'm working on my letter revoking my membership, because a) they changed a good policy that had worked for decades (no women pastors or elders, ALL teachers of any gender had to have their curriculum and character approved to teach, and they taught only with the express approval and under the authority of the elders) and without telling anyone they were doing it (to a rule of no women co-teaching anything with their husbands, no women teaching any "man" over the age of 13, or 15, or something, having XX chromosomes mean you can only teach other XX chromosome and children under whatever age they finally decide is young enough- they keep changing the age, which tells you how unsure of their position they actually are). Anyway, they didn't tell anyone about this change, they just implemented it on the sly two years ago, and then the pastor claimed he and elders were going thru a "study" on the subject, and would release a position paper (which they didn't), and then they changed the policy on a majority (NOT UNANIMOUS) vote, even though elder board policy for decades had been to only do things on a unanimous vote (if it wasn't unanimous, it just wasn't done) - and this was after they told us the reason they didn't go forward with the mission trip this year with our former pastor's new church (which has its head on way straighter about women) was because the vote wasn't UNANIMOUS (because they are apparently using standard policy when it gets "our" pastor what he wants, and then throwing it out the window when that's what it takes to ram his idiocy thru). Hypocritical. Highly hypocritical. Highly, highly... Anyway, I'm not even quitting on the grounds I disagree with their interpretation of the allowable roles of women in the Bible, I'm quitting because church leadership is secretive, non-transparent, devious, hypocritical, and has broken that church beyond repair. it sucks because we joined this church when it knew the difference between doctrine that directly concerned salvation, and arguable Biblical positions that were secondary to that. We tolerated just about any secondary position. Apparently not any more. To their eventual demise, I suspect. Hey Mrs. Cicero..... TELL US HOW YOU REALLY FEEL 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipedreams Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 5 hours ago, LostinTexas said: I don't tell that story often. It is what it is and I've had a good run of bad luck. Bashing isn't the goal. Some need a good laundering and that will come from within, or they will be gone. The large majority do good things for their denomination, community, members, and outreach. They do it on their dime too. The drama just became more than I though I should deal with. I know me., Feelings were about to be damaged, and I would have been the bad guy as usual. Funny thing about treating people the way they treat you. It is frowned upon. Your right about the many good things they do. My wife is involved but I stay at arms length and try to support her. Just this morning she dropped of some homemade cookies that was for a homeless lunch that is provided. Everyday a different church in town provides a meal for any that are in need. It's not just coffee and sandwiches, it a complete hot cooked meal that I was impressed with and they give the people a sack lunch when they leave for later. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAKA Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 7 minutes ago, janice6 said: I understood very early on that the church was a business and it was being conducted for the benefit of those in charge. God didn't claim that the church was necessary. Just that the person have faith in him. No one is between you and God. No one is a *****"better Christian" than you. If they believe they are, that's proof they aren't! Belief in God is right, belief in man has to be earned. BINGO BINGO WINNER WINNER ***** "better------ substitute any religion" ------than you And they are ALL THE SAME (well all the BIG ones anyway) FOLLOW THE MONEY (AS IN ALL CASES) If I was a "religious" person I'd say I was going to go to HELL But I don't believe in that "stuff"..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minervadoe Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 16 hours ago, Mrs.Cicero said: I'm... old, tired, and utterly disgusted, but no longer surprised by imbecility, You give somebody the idea that they know enough about the world to preach sermons to the masses, and they are going to get a swelled head. Your pastor sounds like he's lived in his cloistered little world for way too long. It would be hard to listen to that kind of crap. Especially since it sounds like has absolutely no respect for women and appears as if he does not think they are in any way equal to men. He is probably incapable of seeing that a lot of women are way more intelligent than he is. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Cicero Posted May 2, 2022 Author Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 hour ago, DAKA said: BINGO BINGO WINNER WINNER ***** "better------ substitute any religion" ------than you And they are ALL THE SAME (well all the BIG ones anyway) FOLLOW THE MONEY (AS IN ALL CASES) If I was a "religious" person I'd say I was going to go to HELL But I don't believe in that "stuff"..... I think the church totally screwed up when it came up with the idea of "professional clergy" - it wasn't originally that way - it was people with real world jobs who ALSO pastored a church(es). And it wasn't that long ago that some churches STILL did it that way - my grandfather was a farmer, and a high school teacher, while also simultaneously pastoring 4 churches up in the mountain in NC. The churches were NOT expected to support him financially... although they often provided a live chicken for his and his family's supper. Professional clergy have too many incentives to do things for the money it brings, since they don't have other means of support. JMHO, YMMV 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAKA Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 14 minutes ago, Mrs.Cicero said: I think the church totally screwed up when it came up with the idea of "professional clergy" - it wasn't originally that way - it was people with real world jobs who ALSO pastored a church(es). And it wasn't that long ago that some churches STILL did it that way - my grandfather was a farmer, and a high school teacher, while also simultaneously pastoring 4 churches up in the mountain in NC. The churches were NOT expected to support him financially... although they often provided a live chicken for his and his family's supper. Professional clergy have too many incentives to do things for the money it brings, since they don't have other means of support. JMHO, YMMV YEAH WELL.... The WORLD AIN'T THE SAME....."WE" old (er) people remember.... the young un's ,,, they're too busy being WOKE and on Facebook (ugh) and texting to everyone about where they .....never mind Glad I'm old ..feel sorry fir the "kids" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar_ml Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 I completely stopped having anything to do with the church I was raised in when they put out a "no concealed firearms in meetinghouses" not long after a few churches/synagogues of other denominations got attacked. If they don't trust me to protect myself, I don't trust them to do pretty much anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Cicero Posted May 2, 2022 Author Share Posted May 2, 2022 17 minutes ago, Cougar_ml said: I completely stopped having anything to do with the church I was raised in when they put out a "no concealed firearms in meetinghouses" not long after a few churches/synagogues of other denominations got attacked. If they don't trust me to protect myself, I don't trust them to do pretty much anything. Oh, one of the requirements for any church I attend is that I can carry there. That was one of the things I liked about this place. At least 3/4 of the Worship Team on the platform at any one time was armed, and there were concealed carriers sitting at 5 of the doors into the sanctuary. Plus roaming security inside and out of the building during services... in a church with fewer than 250 members, that was nice. My husband and the former head of the security team joked that if anything happened while I was onstage, my flipping up my skirt to get to my pistol was going to be a distraction that would let them draw theirs... 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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