"firearm handed to Alec Baldwin on Thursday was declared a 'cold gun,' meaning it was declared unloaded"

[Historian]

2 hours ago, Walt Longmire said:

Considering that Hollywood is mostly a bunch of extreme liberal panty waists, I wouldn't expect very many of them to have even a smattering of basic knowledge of firearm safety and usage.

Ignorance.   It's a shame.   I think the movie industry needs to have serious trainers and consultants to provide that training.

The guys who were in Black Hawk down got a hell of a lot of training.  The extras in that movie were active duty 75th Rangers.  

When it comes to firearms I don't think you can possibly have enough training.   I have a load...and still took an NRA basic class with a buddy who had no experience.   I teach this class.  But I still enjoyed being a student and revisiting the basics.  The instructor was a friend of mine and just plain fantastic.

[Ricordo]

Blank firing Old West Replicas. https://www.replicagunsdirect.com/catalog/blank-firing-replicas-14-1.html

Ammo. https://www.replicagunsdirect.com/catalog/blank-ammunition-63-1.html

[Mrs.Cicero]

2 hours ago, Historian said:

Ignorance.   It's a shame.   I think the movie industry needs to have serious trainers and consultants to provide that training.

The guys who were in Black Hawk down got a hell of a lot of training.  The extras in that movie were active duty 75th Rangers.  

When it comes to firearms I don't think you can possibly have enough training.   I have a load...and still took an NRA basic class with a buddy who had no experience.   I teach this class.  But I still enjoyed being a student and revisiting the basics.  The instructor was a friend of mine and just plain fantastic.

Completely agree about the training.  I've taken the same tactical pistol course from the same instructor at least a dozen times in the last 24 years.  Some years I took it twice.  The first time I took the course, it was all brand new stuff to learn.  Then it was learning stuff I didn't catch the first or second time through... and then it was stuff I needed to review (great way to brush up on stuff I don't get to practice in the winter because the indoor range doesn't allow that sort of thing).  Eventually, I was taking it because I was watching how the instructors were teaching it, to see what they did that would improve my own teaching.  I still go back and take the class whenever I can (it's been a 7 hour drive one way for the last 20 years, and worth every minute it takes to get there for the weekend class), because bad habits creep in, and I never get as much practice as I'd like... the class fixes the bad habits, and motivates my practicing.   Other than that particular course, I've done his advanced tactical pistol course a half dozen times (he doesn't offer it as often), and I've fit other classes from other instructors in other locations whenever I have the time, money, and ammunition.  I've NEVER taken a class that I didn't learn something new.  There's never enough time and ammo to train as much as I'd like...

[Borg warner]

On 10/26/2021 at 6:40 AM, M&P15T said:

I see no way in which Baldwin is responsible for what happened. Firearms on movie/TV sets are routinely pointed at all sorts of people and cameras, and that's what happened here.

The responsibility lies with the 24 year old girl that couldn't do her job properly.

As executive producer Balwin was responsible for production costs and cut corners by hiring a bunch of non-union crew members, several of which were plinking with the gun using live amm and that's how thelive round ended up in the gun

I talked to a good friend of mine about this who I went to high school with in Los Angeles and he was from a show business family and his father was a choreographer and an assistant director and his mother was a chorus girl and his uncle was an art director and his dad was assistant director on The Rifleman back in the 50's and my friend got into the Directors Guild back in the 70's and worked with Martin Scorcese, Ron Howard, Roger Corman, and others but most significantly he worked with Micheal Winner who directed Death wish amd Death Wish II with Charles Bronson and both movies had a lot of gun scenes in it.

My friend worked qs a production assistant on death wish but worked as a second assistant director on a number of different films but was well liked by Winner and was on the set for most scenes and what he told me is that the first assistant director that  is the one most responsible for placing a gun in the actor's hands. The second assistant director has different duties and is in charge of scheduling the actors and the extras. But my freind's dad was a first assistant director and his older brother was also a first assistant director an they worked together on many projects but my friend ha to use his middle name as his last when working as a Second AD with his brother as first AD to make it look like no nepotism was involved.

So my friend said that either the 1st assistant director was not doing his or her job when he handed Baldwin the gun, or that he wasn't the one who handed the actor the gun or wasn't even on the set of this cheapskate production when someone else  handed Baldwin the  gun and I don't think the 24 year old girl who was teh "Firearms expert" was the one who handed him the gun either and she may not even have been on the set at the time. and none of this was being done according to procedure and as executive producer the entire production was ultimately Baldwin's responsibility and it sounds like the entire operation was one big Cluster ****.

[Historian]

1 hour ago, Mrs.Cicero said:

Completely agree about the training.  I've taken the same tactical pistol course from the same instructor at least a dozen times in the last 24 years.  Some years I took it twice. 

Ayep.  I have a training folder with lots of pretty certificates in there....each one a different memory.   Trained with a lot of people and took what worked for me and others.  I think it was Jim Crews who wrote a book called, "Some of the answers." I guess I got some.

Anyway,  it's interesting how some of the old stuff from the 40s is coming back into vogue and being passed off as being new.  But some things are truly universal.   Like, move off line.  Sounds so basic.  But it's critiical.

I had an instructor once who got on my case because i always did a search and access after shooting.   Eventually he figured it out and and said, "Somewhere Col. Cooper is smiling down upon you, son."

Well.  If he thought that was an insult.  He probably needed to be reminded that he was teaching because of men like the Col. 

Mrs. Cicero, i am glad our paths have crossed.  You are one interesting person.

 

[Historian]

26 minutes ago, Borg warner said:

So my friend said that either the 1st assistant director was not doing his or her job when he handed Baldwin the gun, or that he wasn't the one who handed the actor the gun or wan't even on the set of this cheapskate production when someone else  handed Baldwin the  gun and I don't think teh 24 year old girl was the one who handed him the gun either and she may not even have been on the set at the time. and none of this was being done according to procedure and as executive producer the entire production was ultimately Baldwin's responsibility and it sounds like the entire operation was one big Cluster ****.

Just read that the pistol that Baldwin used...had been used for shooting cans earlier in the day.

Cluster is right.

[Ricordo]

I think I have figured it out. It all boils down to a misunderstanding.

I think that when the assistant director yelled "cold gun", he was referring to the temperature of the barrel after it had been shot all morning for target practice.

Perhaps he should have shouted, "it's still lukewarm!".

 

No need to thank me, just doin' my part.

[Ricordo]

I wonder who will be the first genius to pin the blame of this needless death on climate change....

[SC Tiger]

12 hours ago, Borg warner said:

As executive producer Balwin was responsible for production costs and cut corners by hiring a bunch of non-union crew members, several of which were plinking with the gun using live amm and that's how thelive round ended up in the gun

I talked to a good friend of mine about this who I went to high school with in Los Angeles and he was from a show business family and his father was a choreographer and an assistant director and his mother was a chorus girl and his uncle was an art director and his dad was assistant director on The Rifleman back in the 50's and my friend got into the Directors Guild back in the 70's and worked with Martin Scorcese, Ron Howard, Roger Corman, and others but most significantly he worked with Micheal Winner who directed Death wish with Charles Bronson which had a lot of gun scenes in it.

My friend worked qs a production assistant on death wish but worked as a second assistant director on a number of different films but was well liked by Winner and was on the set for most scenes and what he told me is that the first assistant director that  is the one most responsible for placing a gun in the actor's hands. The second assistant director has different duties and is in charge of scheduling the actors and the extras. But my freind's dad was a first assistant director and his older brother was also a first assistant director an they worked together on many projects but my friend ha to use his middle name as his last when working as a Second AD with his brother as first AD to make it look like no nepotism was involved.

So my friend said that either the 1st assistant director was not doing his or her job when he handed Baldwin the gun, or that he wasn't the one who handed the actor the gun or wan't even on the set of this cheapskate production when someone else  handed Baldwin the  gun and I don't think teh 24 year old girl was the one who handed him the gun either and she may not even have been on the set at the time. and none of this was being done according to procedure and as executive producer the entire production was ultimately Baldwin's responsibility and it sounds like the entire operation was one big Cluster ****.

Now, THIS makes more sense.  Baldwin the EXEC PRODUCER may well be liable if he hired an unqualified armorer.  But that would be a civil liability. - especially if he was unaware of the crew members plinking with the gun.

If true, your story also explains the live ammo in the area.

All that said - if they were rehersing the scene there is no reason for the gun to have had anything in it at all.

[Historian]

1 hour ago, Ricordo said:

I wonder who will be the first genius to pin the blame of this needless death on climate change....

The pistol was woke.

[Ricordo]

50 minutes ago, Historian said:

The pistol was woke.

Systemic racism.

[Walt Longmire]

People don't kill people. Guns kill people.

[Ricordo]

Gender inequality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ricordo]

7 minutes ago, Ricordo said:

Gender inequality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which, of course, brings up the issue of cash bail.............................because Baldwin is a victim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ricordo]

Btw. There is eyewitness testimony that Baldwin, in other scenes, had safety-checked the gun he was handling.

[M&P15T]

16 hours ago, Borg warner said:

As executive producer Balwin was responsible for production costs and cut corners by hiring a bunch of non-union crew members, several of which were plinking with the gun using live amm and that's how thelive round ended up in the gun

I talked to a good friend of mine about this who I went to high school with in Los Angeles and he was from a show business family and his father was a choreographer and an assistant director and his mother was a chorus girl and his uncle was an art director and his dad was assistant director on The Rifleman back in the 50's and my friend got into the Directors Guild back in the 70's and worked with Martin Scorcese, Ron Howard, Roger Corman, and others but most significantly he worked with Micheal Winner who directed Death wish with Charles Bronson which had a lot of gun scenes in it.

My friend worked qs a production assistant on death wish but worked as a second assistant director on a number of different films but was well liked by Winner and was on the set for most scenes and what he told me is that the first assistant director that  is the one most responsible for placing a gun in the actor's hands. The second assistant director has different duties and is in charge of scheduling the actors and the extras. But my freind's dad was a first assistant director and his older brother was also a first assistant director an they worked together on many projects but my friend ha to use his middle name as his last when working as a Second AD with his brother as first AD to make it look like no nepotism was involved.

So my friend said that either the 1st assistant director was not doing his or her job when he handed Baldwin the gun, or that he wasn't the one who handed the actor the gun or wan't even on the set of this cheapskate production when someone else  handed Baldwin the  gun and I don't think teh 24 year old girl was the one who handed him the gun either and she may not even have been on the set at the time. and none of this was being done according to procedure and as executive producer the entire production was ultimately Baldwin's responsibility and it sounds like the entire operation was one big Cluster ****.

 

Regardless, Baldwin isn't in criminal trouble. This was an accident, pure and simple.

They do happen.

[Walt Longmire]

39 minutes ago, M&P15T said:

 

Regardless, Baldwin isn't in criminal trouble. This was an accident, pure and simple.

They do happen.

Riiiiight. I accidently forgot to check the weapon, accidently pointed it at 2 people, and accidently pulled the trigger. Ignoring every gun handling rule ever made. Accidently.

[M&P15T]

Just now, Walt Longmire said:

Riiiiight. I accidently forgot to check the weapon, accidently pointed it at 2 people, and accidently pulled the trigger. Ignoring every gun handling rule ever made. Accidently.

Evidently you live in a fantasy world where firearms safety rules apply on film sets, and you've also never, ever seen a movie or TV show where people get shot.

Not once.

[Gunboat1]

We are breaking new legal ground in personal liability law, apparently.  The HOLLYWOOD EXCEPTION will soon become a bedrock tenet of jurisprudence.  (S/)

 

Hollywood is full of liberal dumbasses.  Their movie-making gunhandling procedures, even if of long standing, are clearly screwed up and insufficient to the task.  They need to change.  People need to be held accountable.  Period.

[Walt Longmire]

3 hours ago, Gunboat1 said:

We are breaking new legal ground in personal liability law, apparently.  The HOLLYWOOD EXCEPTION will soon become a bedrock tenet of jurisprudence.  (S/)

 

Hollywood is full of liberal dumbasses.  Their movie-making gunhandling procedures, even if of long standing, are clearly screwed up and insufficient to the task.  They need to change.  People need to be held accountable.  Period.

Mel Gibson and Danny Glover, or whatever his name is, in one of their stupid movies were in a gunfight and having an argument among themselves while gesturing and waving their own weapons at each other. It was so incredibly stupid, I was done with that movie right there.

[gwalchmai]

4 hours ago, M&P15T said:

This was an accident, pure and simple.

Nope. The firearm did not fail to perform as designed. This was a negligent. 

[gwalchmai]

3 hours ago, M&P15T said:

Evidently you live in a fantasy world where firearms safety rules apply on film sets, and you've also never, ever seen a movie or TV show where people get shot.

Not once.

I've seen actors get shot in movies and TV. Not cinematographers or producers. Admittedly, some producers may need to be shot, but that's grist for another mill.

[Historian]

8 hours ago, Ricordo said:

Systemic racism.

With elephant ivory grips studded with blood diamonds produced by climate change and most importantly....the pistol really thinks it's a whale.  A rare albino male whale with two blow holes that thinks it's a reparation seeking unwed pregnant female whale with issues related to generations of ethnic whale hunting causing PTSD and without access to health care and a free college education.

Someone fix me a drink.

 

[Historian]

6 hours ago, Ricordo said:

Btw. There is eyewitness testimony that Baldwin, in other scenes, had safety-checked the gun he was handling.

So.  Having been on a team/squad/unit or two...over the years.

When you get tired.  When you get distracted.  That's when safety is over looked.    Human issues are exposed more.

 

[Borg warner]

5 hours ago, M&P15T said:

 

Regardless, Baldwin isn't in criminal trouble. This was an accident, pure and simple.

They do happen.

Baldwin greatly contributed to the accident taking place not as an actor, but as the executive producer who's primary responsibility is the budget. And if he hadn't hired a bunch of non-union, non-professional crew members who were "Playing" with the gun using live ammo earlier in the day and if the rest of the crew were professionals and followed standard procedures which Baldwin, who has been in the business for many years, should have known, and if the entire production under Baldwin's direct responsibility, not as an actor but as executive Producer, hadn't been such a total cluster****, the "accident" would have never taken place.

I swear, some of you people trying so hard to make the case for Baldwin not being at fault, sound just like Jen Psaki talking about Joe Biden.

His role as executive producer reflects his sleaziness, hypocrisy, and lack of character. Here he is, a staunch Liberal/Progressive who is passionate Union backer except when if comes to him paying professionals union wages. Then it's a different story and he was willing to cut corners which directly resulted in tragedy. As I said before, I have a good friend who was an assistant director for many years, and knows he business better than most people,  who I discussed this with at length but I also worked in the business myself for a year and had other friends in the business in the 40 years I lived In L.A. and the rest f the time I worked for a  general contractor who's wife was a motion picture production accountant who worked with executive producers all the and I know very well their job involves and what their responsibilities are.