"firearm handed to Alec Baldwin on Thursday was declared a 'cold gun,' meaning it was declared unloaded"

[Historian]

3 hours ago, Walt Longmire said:

What took them so long. Should have been an immediate response. 

I figured they let the local Sheriff's office do their job.   After that they likely were asked to go in.  They aren't going to find out much the locals haven't found.

 

[railfancwb]

Really, why should the BATFE be involved at all?

The shooting wasn’t with a sawed off shotgun or a short barrel rifle or a fully automatic capable weapon and there apparently was no silencer involved. About the only other reasons they might need to be involved would be stolen weapon or obliterated serial number. 

[Historian]

27 minutes ago, railfancwb said:

Really, why should the BATFE be involved at all?

 

CYA.   My bet is a lawyer asked for it.  Determine the firearm was not faulty or something. Like look like subject mater experts.

Like i said.  They won't find anything the locals have not already figured out.

[Ricordo]

"I'll take 'Who Said This' for $2,000, Alex."

 

'I'm in favour of people owning guns but I'm in favour of there being the most arduous process for them to qualify to own that gun. We license many things in our society. You can't walk into a store to get all the drugs you need. You could be in agonizing pain, and you still have to go to a hospital and stand in line and you have to go to a doctor and get a prescription, from a pharmacist. We license cars. We license a lot of things and I think that we need to license guns beyond the way we do it now. Meaning if you want a gun, you could have a gun, but it might take you a couple of weeks to get them do a proper background check.'

[gwalchmai]

12 hours ago, Historian said:

I figured they let the local Sheriff's office do their job.   After that they likely were asked to go in.  They aren't going to find out much the locals haven't found.

 

Baldwin's a liberal icon. They'll find that Trump himself sabotaged the prop gun. 

[Historian]

1 hour ago, gwalchmai said:

Baldwin's a liberal icon. They'll find that Trump himself sabotaged the prop gun. 

Turns out it's state and local OSHA and ATF.

To me this is an OSHA issue.

[M&P15T]

I see no way in which Baldwin is responsible for what happened. Firearms on movie/TV sets are routinely pointed at all sorts of people and cameras, and that's what happened here.

The responsibility lies with the 24 year old girl that couldn't do her job properly.

[Ricordo]

44 minutes ago, M&P15T said:

I see no way in which Baldwin is responsible for what happened. Firearms on movie/TV sets are routinely pointed at all sorts of people and cameras, and that's what happened here.

 

I think it's called Democrat Privilege. But who can blame Baldwin for trying to save a few bucks.

"Jeffrey Wright, who has worked on the James Bond franchise and the upcoming movie 'The Batman', said: 'I don't recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me — meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it's cleared. Clearly, that was a mismanaged set.'

Actor Ray Liotta agreed: 'They always — that I know of — they check it so you can see. They give it to the person you're pointing the gun at, they do it to the producer, they show whoever is there that it doesn't work.'

More questions then: why did Alec Baldwin not insist on being shown the gun was safe? Why did he point it directly at his co-workers, if that is strictly prohibited?

Alec Baldwin must have known about the gun discharge incidents, and crew concerns over the armorer's inexperience and the assistant director's record of dangerous on-set safety misconduct, because he wasn't just a jobbing actor on the movie – he was a named Executive Producer." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10128751/PIERS-MORGAN-Alec-Baldwin-looks-culpable-EP-chaotic-dangerous-sh-t-show.html

It seems--- call me crazy, that Baldwin was quite liberal with other people's lives. Just like his hero---> Brandon.

[M&P15T]

Just now, Ricordo said:

I think it's called Democrat Privilege. But who can blame Baldwin for trying to save a few bucks.

"Jeffrey Wright, who has worked on the James Bond franchise and the upcoming movie 'The Batman', said: 'I don't recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me — meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it's cleared. Clearly, that was a mismanaged set.'

Actor Ray Liotta agreed: 'They always — that I know of — they check it so you can see. They give it to the person you're pointing the gun at, they do it to the producer, they show whoever is there that it doesn't work.'

More questions then: why did Alec Baldwin not insist on being shown the gun was safe? Why did he point it directly at his co-workers, if that is strictly prohibited?

Alec Baldwin must have known about the gun discharge incidents, and crew concerns over the armorer's inexperience and the assistant director's record of dangerous on-set safety misconduct, because he wasn't just a jobbing actor on the movie – he was a named Executive Producer." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10128751/PIERS-MORGAN-Alec-Baldwin-looks-culpable-EP-chaotic-dangerous-sh-t-show.html

It seems--- call me crazy, that Baldwin was quite liberal with other people's lives. Just like his hero, Brandon.

Nothing but a bunch of supposition, and anti-Baldwin hatred. Doesn't even get the part about the firearms and their usage on sets correct. 

On movie & TV sets, guns are pointed at people all the time, and the triggers pulled, with blanks discharging. Including at cameras and the people operating/directing them. That's what happened here with Baldwin.

If you can set your hatred for the man aside for a moment, you'll understand he did nothing wrong.

[Gunboat1]

A lifetime of firearms safety training and experience says that is completely incorrect.

[Ricordo]

27 minutes ago, Gunboat1 said:

A lifetime of firearms safety training and experience says that is completely incorrect.

Don't mind him.

He probably also believes that Cleopatra died while holding Marc Anthony in her arms. Because it's such a lovely, romantic scene.

 

[SC Tiger]

This won't be popular but, as an actor, this wasn't Baldwin's fault.  

He was apparently told the gun was Cold.  The scene probably called for him to fire into the camera (we see those shots all the time). 

He did what he was supposed to do and the weapon fired.  It was supposed to have blanks, so 'clearing' the gun wouldn't have been effective. 

I get the rules of gun safety but things are different for movies.  Other protocols should be in place.  

Here are my questions:

1)  Who declared the gun "cold"?

2)  Why was there live ammunition on a set at all?  Was there live ammo?  Or did a barrel obstruction act as a bullet, similar to what happened to Brandon Lee?

3)  Why was the camera not on a remote mount rather than endanger a camera operator?

4)  Where was the set armorer?  

All that said, as producer Baldwin might be liable if he picked an armorer with a spotty safety record.  But as an actor I don't believe he is.  And I don't think this is a criminal case.

This is all based off of the facts as I know them at the time of posting.  As more info comes out, opinions can change.  For one, it does appear the armorer was a bit careless.

[Gunboat1]

21 minutes ago, SC Tiger said:

This won't be popular but, as an actor, this wasn't Baldwin's fault.  

He was apparently told the gun was Cold.  The scene probably called for him to fire into the camera (we see those shots all the time). 

He did what he was supposed to do and the weapon fired.  It was supposed to have blanks, so 'clearing' the gun wouldn't have been effective. 

I get the rules of gun safety but things are different for movies.  Other protocols should be in place.  

Here are my questions:

1)  Who declared the gun "cold"?

2)  Why was there live ammunition on a set at all?  Was there live ammo?  Or did a barrel obstruction act as a bullet, similar to what happened to Brandon Lee?

3)  Why was the camera not on a remote mount rather than endanger a camera operator?

4)  Where was the set armorer?  

All that said, as producer Baldwin might be liable if he picked an armorer with a spotty safety record.  But as an actor I don't believe he is.  And I don't think this is a criminal case.

Assuming that is true, it simply means that Hollywood has habitually done business in a criminally negligent, unsafe way.  Given the ******* to intelligence quotient on display out there, I'm not surprised in the least.  Maybe this incident will inspire needed cultural change and improved INDIVIDUAL responsibility in the industry.

[Ricordo]

Baldwin is/was Executive Producer of the film.

[SC Tiger]

34 minutes ago, Gunboat1 said:

Assuming that is true, it simply means that Hollywood has habitually done business in a criminally negligent, unsafe way.  Given the ******* to intelligence quotient on display out there, I'm not surprised in the least.  Maybe this incident will inspire needed cultural change and improved INDIVIDUAL responsibility in the industry.

True, but that doesn't put the blame on Baldwin (whom I do not like).  It just means that the culture is not safe with firearms, and that changing it will be harder.  Mistakes were made, no question.  Beyond the mistake of thinking the gun was empty.  There is no reason for the camera to be manned that I can see.  

I still don't think Baldwin the actor is at fault.  He was apparently typically very safe with firearms. 

Now Baldwin the producer might be.

[SC Tiger]

 

On 10/23/2021 at 6:25 PM, Mrs.Cicero said:

I can't begin to describe how stupid I think that policy is.  Or how they manage to get insurance doing it that way.

Insurance probably mandated it.  Remember, most insurance agents are not knowledgeable on things like guns.  And most actors are idiots.

[Historian]

11 minutes ago, Ricordo said:

Baldwin is/was Executive Producer of the film.

Needs a lawyer.

Mr. Baldwin and i have a wold of differences.

I would not wish this on anyone.

 

[Historian]

2 hours ago, Ricordo said:

Don't mind him.

He probably also believes that Cleopatra died while holding Marc Anthony in her arms. Because it's such a lovely, romantic scene.

[Ricordo]

3 minutes ago, Historian said:

Needs a lawyer.

Mr. Baldwin and i have a wold of differences.

I would not wish this on anyone.

 

I see you understand the meaning of "Executive Producer".

My opinion is that he'll probably rationalize the incident. Merely by his contemporaneous statement---> who gave me a hot gun? Pass the blame..................................

[Walt Longmire]

Considering that Hollywood is mostly a bunch of extreme liberal panty waists, I wouldn't expect very many of them to have even a smattering of basic knowledge of firearm safety and usage.

[SC Tiger]

17 minutes ago, Walt Longmire said:

Considering that Hollywood is mostly a bunch of extreme liberal panty waists, I wouldn't expect very many of them to have even a smattering of basic knowledge of firearm safety and usage.

Precisely why you put this in the hands of an armorer, who should be well versed in gun safety.  But somewhere along the line someone fvcked up.

[SC Tiger]

6 hours ago, M&P15T said:

I see no way in which Baldwin is responsible for what happened. Firearms on movie/TV sets are routinely pointed at all sorts of people and cameras, and that's what happened here.

The responsibility lies with the 24 year old girl that couldn't do her job properly.

As actor, I agree.  And I agree with your general premise.  However, Alec Baldwin the Exec Producer might be liable.  

[Mrs.Cicero]

Just a thought... does anyone here really think a 24 year old girl (yes, girl) who had publicly (on social media) already talked about her complete lack of self-confidence in her ability to handle the head armorer's job... does anyone really think she would actually stand up to Alec "that arrogant *******" Baldwin on set with regard to ANY safety protocols?  I think she went along with whatever attitude was displayed by the authority figures on the set - the director(s) and producer(s) being the ones setting the tone.  I think the attitude displayed by the people in authority had a great deal to do with the utter lack of care for the safety of the entire crew, and to the repeated NDs that apparently did not change any procedures at all on the set despite complaints.

This culture does NOT train its children to stand up to authority when there is anything real on the line.  Instead, this culture punishes them for doing so.  And if you don't think I'm right, where have you been for the last two years while we've been teaching the children that anyone who doesn't bow to authority is a danger to society and should be cancelled at best and completely wrecked (or murdered by deprivation of health care?) at worst?  And you should go to hell for dead-naming some mentally ill nutcase who is randomly making up words and calling them "Zyt's Pronouns."

I read what the girl had posted, and it came across with the maturity level of a 14 year old, at best.  I get that she had "family connections" in the industry that got her the job.  I deplore the idea that any sort of connections would outweigh the value of people's safety.   If you want to give a job to the child of a friend, make them your personal freaking gopher, make them an apprentice assistant to your assistant.    Do NOT put them in charge of the safety of other human beings until they have demonstrated the competence necessary to do that job.  Sheesh.  It's disgusting that I even have to say that.  The moment someone publicly proclaims they lack the confidence to do a particular job, they should NOT have that job.  In doing so, they destroy their own credibility in any situation where they have to tell someone else what to do.  If one lacks confidence in their ability to do X, that should be brought up with a mentor in a discussion regarding what it would take for them to HAVE the confidence they have what it takes to do the job.  

Sometimes it's just training - I need to study X or practice X or think thru what I'll do in case of all the problems I can think of occurring while I'm doing X.  Sometimes it's just a mentor saying, "Hey, you are going to have people challenge what you are saying/telling them to do.  How are you going to respond to that?  There is the possibility that if you enforce the rules/insist on doing it a certain way that someone will derail your job here/ your career in this industry/ make your crew hate you /whatever.  There is also the possibility that letting it slide will result in a disaster that will result in injury or death to another human being or bankrupt the business and destroy your career.  Can you live with that? Decide NOW, because you aren't going to have time to make the decision when it's in front of you - if you haven't decided, you'll default to your fearful emotional state/beta mindset, and make poor choices because of that."

 

 

[Ricordo]

Apparently, it's not that Baldwin didn't know or was ignorant of the protocols.

"Reid Russell, a camera operator who was working on the film's set that day, noted to detectives in a newly released affidavit that Baldwin, 63, was very careful when it came to the use of prop firearms while filming prior to the incident.

According to the warrant affidavit, which was obtained by Fox News, Russell actually commended the actor for his conduct during a prior scene that involved discharging a firearm. He noted that the actor observed all the safety protocols and even did an extra check-in with the crew to make sure no one was near him. Specifically, he made sure a child who was on set that day wasn't anywhere near him when discharging the weapon." https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/rust-film-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-landlady-arizona

 

 

 

[Historian]

3 hours ago, Ricordo said:

I see you understand the meaning of "Executive Producer".

My opinion is that he'll probably rationalize the incident. Merely by his contemporaneous statement---> who gave me a hot gun? Pass the blame..................................

Well I think most people as part of the processing of, "What just happened...." are likely to do some level of rationalization.

He's got two issues.  One he was Executive Producer so he's about to be sued until he can afford a K-Mart tent to live in.   Some other people who he had as paid employees...are going to go down as well.

Honestly, I would feel a tremendous amount of blame.  This was a lovely young woman in the prime of her life.  I am certain he feels that way inside.  He's human. 

This was one (bleep, radio edit) up repugnant situation.