RANT! Buying a car

[GPM]

I should send my wife shopping with you. She once spent 8 hours in the old Larry Miller Toyota dealership in Phoenix buying a new Corolla. She went through the salesman, his manager and the manager's manager until they were turning off the lights in the showroom. Only she knew the Fiat she was trading in wouldn't have made it home. Got the price she wanted. Maybe its partly because she's Japanese and can sit still for hours without smiling. That and the fact that she was raised on a poor farm in western Nebraska. Her dad used to bargain at the local hardware store over the price of a hammer. Several years later she pulled the same act at Earnhardt Ford buying an Explorer. They were $50 apart in price and she walked out the door. They chased her across the parking lot and begged her to agree to the additional $50. She replied, tint the windows and give me front and rear floor mats. They agreed. 

[Huski92]

It’s fun having a new vehicle but a pain in the ass to get one. I’ll keep my 10 old truck for awhile longer.


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[Paul53]

6 hours ago, GPM said:

I should send my wife shopping with you. She once spent 8 hours in the old Larry Miller Toyota dealership in Phoenix buying a new Corolla. She went through the salesman, his manager and the manager's manager until they were turning off the lights in the showroom. Only she knew the Fiat she was trading in wouldn't have made it home. Got the price she wanted. Maybe its partly because she's Japanese and can sit still for hours without smiling. That and the fact that she was raised on a poor farm in western Nebraska. Her dad used to bargain at the local hardware store over the price of a hammer. Several years later she pulled the same act at Earnhardt Ford buying an Explorer. They were $50 apart in price and she walked out the door. They chased her across the parking lot and begged her to agree to the additional $50. She replied, tint the windows and give me front and rear floor mats. They agreed. 

Do you loan her out to others buying? If not, you could make a fortune with those skills of hers.

[GPM]

12 hours ago, Paul53 said:

Do you loan her out to others buying? If not, you could make a fortune with those skills of hers.

Hah! I mentioned something like that to her awhile back when a friend was car shopping. Got that look that after 30+ years of marriage tells you that maybe you don't want to go there. 

 

Her last buying experience was a bit different. So much more knowledge available as to the value of used cars and prices dealers pay for new models. She was trading her Mini Cooper in on a new BMW X1. She waited almost a year until she found the color and options she wanted. Sat down with the salesman and he asked her how much she wanted for the Mini. She told him she didn't care. Puzzled the then asked her how much she wanted to pay monthly. She dropped her check book on the table and said 'nothing'. She's never financed a car in her life. She then told him how much she'd give him, out the door, and that he could figure out how much for the new BMW and how much for her trade in with his manager and let her know, yes or no. After the required trips back and forth to the managers office, offers of more, her saying no, getting up to leave, they came back with a curious offer. They'd meet her price if she financed through BMW. She asked if there was an early payoff penalty. They said no, she got her deal and paid it off a week later. Guess those financing kick backs are serious for the dealers.

 

I'd guess things will change radically in the future. If Tesla continues to be successful and the dealer's franchise lock on sales gets broken we'll soon be buying cars on Amazon. And of course they'll all be electric. Just like buying a new toaster. Glad I'll likely not be around for that future. As inefficient as they may be, I kind of like the internal combustion engine.

[NPTim]

Another installment of the ****-**** games stealerships play.

I get a call from the used car manager asking what they could do to earn my business. I told him I’d trade my truck in, (wife insisted) he asks if I can come in, today is my short day, so sure. I haul my cookies over to the westside to this stealership.

 

They offer the same low ball on the trade, meh, at the end of the day it was a price I could live with. So I sign off on the deal. The next guy up from the salesman, man there are a bunch of chiefs and few indians, tells me “I’ll have it cleaned up and gassed up when you get here.”. Still haven’t met with the finance manager, I haven’t given the the PO from my finance source, exchanged title, nothing.

These clowns couldn’t find the ******* keys to the truck. Now I obviously don’t know **** about the car game, but I think the second rule is have the ******* keys to the vehicle you are selling. The first I would think is have a vehicle. I was hangry so that didn’t help.

So I walked.

They sent the kid with the truck. I gave them my terms, we will see if they meet them. 

 

Now they are saying that for legal reasons, papers can only be signed in the stealership. I’m not hauling my cookies all the way back up there.

 

Back to the grindstone.

[Cougar_ml]

1 hour ago, NPTim said:

Another installment of the ****-**** games stealerships play.

I get a call from the used car manager asking what they could do to earn my business. I told him I’d trade my truck in, (wife insisted) he asks if I can come in, today is my short day, so sure. I haul my cookies over to the westside to this stealership.

 

They offer the same low ball on the trade, meh, at the end of the day it was a price I could live with. So I sign off on the deal. The next guy up from the salesman, man there are a bunch of chiefs and few indians, tells me “I’ll have it cleaned up and gassed up when you get here.”. Still haven’t met with the finance manager, I haven’t given the the PO from my finance source, exchanged title, nothing.

These clowns couldn’t find the ******* keys to the truck. Now I obviously don’t know **** about the car game, but I think the second rule is have the ******* keys to the vehicle you are selling. The first I would think is have a vehicle. I was hangry so that didn’t help.

So I walked.

They sent the kid with the truck. I gave them my terms, we will see if they meet them. 

 

Now they are saying that for legal reasons, papers can only be signed in the stealership. I’m not hauling my cookies all the way back up there.

 

Back to the grindstone.

You tried, they failed to keep up their end of things.  Time to look elsewhere I'd say.

[crockett]

Glad I'm liking my cheap RAM work truck so far. There is a good chance that I will keeping it running for 30 years. I have zero desire to buy any other car or truck, and I am a car guy.

I'm no fan of sales people in almost all cases. Dealership fuckery is definitely an established scam on several levels.

[holyjohnson]

see if there is another dealership that can match the make,model,miles and price of the vehicle that is alluding you.

if one dealer won`t work with you,another is almost always willing to,

 

Good Luck cuz car buying sucks.

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by holyjohnson

[NPTim]

So, I decided to go with a 2018 Silverado LTZ. Going internet worked for me. What he found for me was one with a bench seat and no a/c seats. The cup holders were way to small to hold the water bottle I use so I said no.
This is what he found for me. The color is called Cajun Red.
 

[crockett]

I hope you'll have more luck with your GM truck. Mine had the dreaded Chevy Shake.

 

 

 

[NPTim]

5 hours ago, crockett said:

I hope you'll have more luck with your GM truck. Mine had the dreaded Chevy Shake.

 

 

 

What is the “Chevy shake?”

[crockett]

13 minutes ago, NPTim said:

What is the “Chevy shake?”

Mysterious, Unfixable ‘Chevy Shake’ Affecting Pickup Trucks Too

Looking at buying a Chevy Silverado or GMC Sierra? You may be in for a turbulent ride.  

GM engineers can’t seem to pinpoint the cause of a mysterious recurring issue in vehicles riding on GM’s K2XX platform, which includes its full-size trucks and SUVs, a problem that was referred to by one dealer as “The Chevy Shake.” Because GM can’t isolate the cause of the problem, a permanent fix has also been elusive.

More:

https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2016/03/the-mysterious-chevy-shake-is-affecting-pickup-trucks-now-too.html

 

Watch this... and you get the idea... not fixable... I wasn't willing to deal with that in my $75k truck...

 

 

 

 

[NPTim]

YIKES!

[crockett]

35 minutes ago, NPTim said:

YIKES!

They replaced 4 sets of tires on my truck and road force balanced each tire several times. Then they did a frequency analysis by installing a bunch of sensors and doing an extensive test ride. Had been in and out many times. Nothing cured it. Between 68 and 80 it was shaking immensely. I avoided highway and long distance trips. Since I wasn't willing to sue GM a second time, I just sold it. Done with GM 100%.

IMO its an issue that goes back to bad / low quality GoodYear OEM tires, non-centric wheel hub adapters being used for those GM rims on Hunter balancing machines, and a design failure in the GM frames / chassis / mounts. I believe that the OEM tires are 2nd grade as well as insufficiently balanced with none fitting wheel hub adapters. These vibrations hit the natural frequency of the frame / chassis combo at speed of 68 to 80 MPH, amplifying the vibration issue multiple times, resulting in a resonance.

In mechanical systems, resonance is a phenomenon that occurs when the frequency at which a force is periodically applied is equal or nearly equal to one of the natural frequencies of the system on which it acts. This causes the system to oscillate with larger amplitude than when the force is applied at other frequencies.

Frequencies at which the response amplitude is a relative maximum are known as resonant frequencies or resonance frequencies of the system. Near resonant frequencies, small periodic forces have the ability to produce large amplitude oscillations, due to the storage of vibrational energy.

For example, marching soldiers are cautioned to break stride on a bridge, lest they match the bridge's frequency of vibration. If the mechanical resonance is strong enough, the bridge can vibrate until it collapses from the movement.

GM didn't invest enough into R&D, let alone testing. The customer has to deal with the ongoing problems and GM's final denial. They are still cutting corners and didn't learn from the bailouts. The entire middle and upper management should be kicked out. But what do I know.

Edited January 6, 2019 by crockett

[PNWguy]

Beautiful truck!

[NPTim]

I just had this LED light bar put on. I forgot to show the hazards on, still pretty cool in my ever so humble opinion.

[gwalchmai]

Dang, Tim, that's nice! Where could I get one of those?

[Valmet]

That’s a slick looking Silverado! 

I drive vehicles into the ground so I’ve only been car shopping a few times in my life but in my experience it has paid off to be polite, yet unbending. 

Dont be afraid to walk away. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Valmet

[tadbart]

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 3:03 PM, NPTim said:

So, I decided to go with a 2018 Silverado LTZ. Going internet worked for me. What he found for me was one with a bench seat and no a/c seats. The cup holders were way to small to hold the water bottle I use so I said no.
This is what he found for me. The color is called Cajun Red.
 

Yeah, Eastern Cajun, "Row Todd Redd."

 

you done got you a coonass Bama truck.

[Moshe]

A lot of stucco out there.  So, NM, AZ, or Nevada?

[Moshe]

NM, I blew up the dealer temporary plates, I know now.  The hottest place in all of Arizona.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Moshe

[NPTim]

7 hours ago, Moshe said:

A lot of stucco out there.  So, NM, AZ, or Nevada?

Can you keep a secret?

[railfancwb]

Know i can’t win, buying/trading vehicles.

Know vehicles can be kept running indefinitely, usually for much much less per month than a car payment.

It is annoying, though, when they reach that “It’s always something” stage. Especially when the “somethings” increasingly mean stranded.


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[railfancwb]

They replaced 4 sets of tires on my truck and road force balanced each tire several times. Then they did a frequency analysis by installing a bunch of sensors and doing an extensive test ride. Had been in and out many times. Nothing cured it. Between 68 and 80 it was shaking immensely. I avoided highway and long distance trips. Since I wasn't willing to sue GM a second time, I just sold it. Done with GM 100%.
IMO its an issue that goes back to bad / low quality GoodYear OEM tires, non-centric wheel hub adapters being used for those GM rims on Hunter balancing machines, and a design failure in the GM frames / chassis / mounts. I believe that the OEM tires are 2nd grade as well as insufficiently balanced with none fitting wheel hub adapters. These vibrations hit the natural frequency of the frame / chassis combo at speed of 68 to 80 MPH, amplifying the vibration issue multiple times, resulting in a resonance.
In mechanical systems, resonance is a phenomenon that occurs when the frequency at which a force is periodically applied is equal or nearly equal to one of the natural frequencies of the system on which it acts. This causes the system to oscillate with larger amplitude than when the force is applied at other frequencies.
Frequencies at which the response amplitude is a relative maximum are known as resonant frequencies or resonance frequencies of the system. Near resonant frequencies, small periodic forces have the ability to produce large amplitude oscillations, due to the storage of vibrational energy.
For example, marching soldiers are cautioned to break stride on a bridge, lest they match the bridge's frequency of vibration. If the mechanical resonance is strong enough, the bridge can vibrate until it collapses from the movement.
GM didn't invest enough into R&D, let alone testing. The customer has to deal with the ongoing problems and GM's final denial. They are still cutting corners and didn't learn from the bailouts. The entire middle and upper management should be kicked out. But what do I know.

Maybe the departing GM management can hire on to GE. Think they both went to the “sell your cash cows to get more cash for the ratholes” finishing school.


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[NPTim]

9 hours ago, gwalchmai said:

Dang, Tim, that's nice! Where could I get one of those?

Amazon