Mrs.Cicero Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Historian said: Hell i want to do that. Can i get a couple graduate school hours out of it? Wouldn't that be grand? If I ever went back to school, that's what I'd love to study. But the next best thing is having the kid want to study it in hs, and getting to do it with her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Cicero Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, tous said: May I suggest that she study failures in battle rather than victories? Start with Xerxes at Thermopylae and the Roman Empire trying to subdue the Northern English tribes. For a more contemporary view, consider The American Revolution, Napolean at Trafalgar, Custer at Little Big Horn. Good commanders, bad decisions. That's a slant I hadn't considered - I like it. We read thru Sun Tzu last year when we did an Asian history survey course, and I think I'll bring it back, and have her tell me what particular commanders in particular battles did right/wrong according to SunTzu. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Cicero Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 5 hours ago, minervadoe said: You can't really go wrong with any book by Michael Shaara. They are well researched and bring the battle to life with a mix of fictional and actual characters. Two relevant novels are: The Frozen Hours: A Novel of the Korean War This novel tells the story of the valiant efforts of U.S. Marines to hold ground in harsh winter conditions deep in North Korea. The Final Storm: A Novel of the War in the Pacific (World War II) This novel gives an account of the hellish conditions that Marines fought under in WWII. I have never read his books, which is terrible to admit since we always had them in stock when I managed the bookstore. I will pick those up. thanks! 3 hours ago, Historian said: Just a few from my shelves. Death Traps: The survival of an American Armored Division in World War II By Cooper. Another river, Another Town by Irwin Cutthroats: The a adventures of a Sherman tank driver in the Pacific by Robert Dick Brothers in Arms: The Epic story of the 761st tank batalion by Kareem Abdul-Jabar (Ayep, the basketball dude) Panzer Ace: The war memoirs of Richard Freiherr Von Rosen 2 hours ago, Historian said: By tank into Normandy by Hills Tank Commander: From the fall of France to the defeat of Germany by Close Panzer destroyer: The memoir of a red army tank commander by Krysov Red Army Tank Commander: At war in a t-34 by Bryukhov Through Hell for Hitler: By Metalmann Historian, these are great - thank you - I have some military history in my own collection, but nothing tank related. Perfect. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janice6 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, Mrs.Cicero said: Heh. The guys she's with this week and next do this hunt (and several others) every year, 20 miles a day won't phase them at all. My husband's uncle is pushing 70 and still runs nearly every day. I can't keep up with that man. Of course, I have to point out that part of the reason they end up doing 20 miles a day, is that they get lost every year. So I made her take the good Garmin, paper topo maps and a couple compasses, and told the guys they damn well better teach her how to use them... so maybe they'll actually use them themselves...I hope. She'll get it quick. Orienteering is simple once you have the concept of where you are. Youngsters know computers so GPS is simple and it's explains the concept of a compass easily. The trick is to recognize Topography on maps so you dont spend all your time going up and down. Like lake charts only no water. Edited February 7, 2020 by janice6 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janice6 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Mrs.Cicero said: Heh. The guys she's with this week and next do this hunt (and several others) every year, 20 miles a day won't phase them at all. My husband's uncle is pushing 70 and still runs nearly every day. I can't keep up with that man. Of course, I have to point out that part of the reason they end up doing 20 miles a day, is that they get lost every year. So I made her take the good Garmin, paper topo maps and a couple compasses, and told the guys they damn well better teach her how to use them... so maybe they'll actually use them themselves...I hope. She's training with exceptional people. I bet she will do the hikes in basic and make fools out of her competition. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minervadoe Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Set the compass down. Find North. Set the map down and orient north on the map to match north on the compass. If it's a topographic map, figure out which ridge you're on before you start moving. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hauptmann6 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Historian said: Just a few from my shelves. Death Traps: The survival of an American Armored Division in World War II By Cooper. Another river, Another Town by Irwin Cutthroats: The a adventures of a Sherman tank driver in the Pacific by Robert Dick Brothers in Arms: The Epic story of the 761st tank batalion by Kareem Abdul-Jabar (Ayep, the basketball dude) Panzer Ace: The war memoirs of Richard Freiherr Von Rosen Death Traps - Belton Cooper. It's an interesting book, but I am not a fan of it. It's a little too much self promotion for my tastes. Cutthroats, awesome book. I need to find it on my shelves again. --------- A couple more. If you Survive - George Wilson. US Lieutenant in the ETO from Normandy on. Roll Me over - Raymond Gantter. US infantryman ETO Soldat - Siegfried Knappe a German soldiers BIO. Brazen Chariots - Robert Crisp. British Tank officer in the desert. Anything by Daniel Bolger. He was a US Army officer from the early 80s still 2013 retiring as a Lieutenant General. On War- Von Clausewitz Sun Tsu is a good read. Not specific. But a good read. The influence of seapower upon history - AT Mahan - The basis of naval strategy from 1895ish till WWII. It is a touch dry. They Died to Make Men Free: The 19th Michigan Infantry - William Anderson 19th Michigan infantry regiment in the Civil war. Very good book, a touch hard to find. The Men of Company K The 84th Infantry Division In The Battle Of Germany: November 1944-May 1945 Guadalcanal Diary Thunderbolt! - Robert S. Johnson Zemke's Wolf Pack Willie & Joe - just look them up. The White Donkey: Terminal Lance - Maximilian Uriarte graphic novel of a modern Marine in Iraq http://www.6thcorpscombatengineers.com/fieldmanuals.html Edited February 7, 2020 by Hauptmann6 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipedreams Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 7 hours ago, minervadoe said: Set the compass down. Find North. Set the map down and orient north on the map to match north on the compass. If it's a topographic map, figure out which ridge you're on before you start moving. I like. Years ago I was at Ft. Irwin and dumped off somewhere in the middle of nowhere. No prominent landmarks so pull out the topo and the only thing you could do is orient the map and hope for the best. Every valley and ridge looked just like the last one, not really ridges or valley's just high and low terrain. That was one of the most challenging landscapes I ever been in. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 8 hours ago, Mrs.Cicero said: Historian, these are great - thank you - I have some military history in my own collection, but nothing tank related. Perfect. Thank you, Mrs. Cicero. I have about 800 books on my shelves these days. Some better than others...but all good. Perhaps when i become history my long suffering wife (who puts up with me) will donate them some place. Most of them i've read at least once. When looking over the books for those titles it was interesting to note some of my books are approaching 100 years old. It's a fun corner of the house to have a cup of coffee. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie-pete Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 7 hours ago, pipedreams said: I like. Years ago I was at Ft. Irwin and dumped off somewhere in the middle of nowhere. No prominent landmarks so pull out the topo and the only thing you could do is orient the map and hope for the best. Every valley and ridge looked just like the last one, not really ridges or valley's just high and low terrain. That was one of the most challenging landscapes I ever been in. Whatever you do don't give it to the L. T. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minervadoe Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 8 hours ago, pipedreams said: I like. Years ago I was at Ft. Irwin and dumped off somewhere in the middle of nowhere. No prominent landmarks so pull out the topo and the only thing you could do is orient the map and hope for the best. Every valley and ridge looked just like the last one, not really ridges or valley's just high and low terrain. That was one of the most challenging landscapes I ever been in. Yikes. Look at all those ravines. It must have been a bitch to find a way down off of those hills. I'm used to the Sierras, where in a morning that 6,000 foot high cinder cone that you were looking up to now appears to be one of two brown smudges way below you. Lot's of rocks; everything from scree piles at the foot of a slope to a big flat expanse covered with fractured granite stones. I always figured it was a glacial feature, but never knew how all those well worn rocks got spread all over the place. Here's a picture of Fort Irwin I looked up. Look familiar? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie-pete Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 41 minutes ago, minervadoe said: Yikes. Look at all those ravines. It must have been a bitch to find a way down off of those hills. I'm used to the Sierras, where in a morning that 6,000 foot high cinder cone that you were looking up to now appears to be one of two brown smudges way below you. Lot's of rocks; everything from scree piles at the foot of a slope to a big flat expanse covered with fractured granite stones. I always figured it was a glacial feature, but never knew how all those well worn rocks got spread all over the place. Here's a picture of Fort Irwin I looked up. Look familiar? Where is their golf course ? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipedreams Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, minervadoe said: Yikes. Look at all those ravines. It must have been a bitch to find a way down off of those hills. I'm used to the Sierras, where in a morning that 6,000 foot high cinder cone that you were looking up to now appears to be one of two brown smudges way below you. Lot's of rocks; everything from scree piles at the foot of a slope to a big flat expanse covered with fractured granite stones. I always figured it was a glacial feature, but never knew how all those well worn rocks got spread all over the place. Here's a picture of Fort Irwin I looked up. Look familiar? That's the main fort but the only time I saw it was when I arrived and when I left. There is just one road that goes out there off Hwy 15 and it one lonely straight flat drive. It's hard to judge distance from the map but it is one huge place. You can stand on a high spot and the area in front of you looks just like the one behind you with nothing man made in site. My map give a bit better idea of the area surrounding the main fort. I need to apologize to the OP for going off subject but there is some weird stuff in the desert. Example. Edited February 7, 2020 by pipedreams 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batesmotel Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 I was a history teacher so let me just throw this out. History buffs study wars and battles. Historians study the politics that lead up to wars and battles. With that in mind, the way I taught history was to follow the money. Total game changer to my students. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Cicero Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 Don't apologize -those are some fun pics/maps. Now I'm watching my kid with the Garmin crossing into AZ... I'll pull up some topo maps tomorrow for a look at where she's hunting. This real-time stalking thing feels pretty weird - when I went backpacking out there(years ago), I just told everyone what state I was heading for, and that I'd be home in a month... 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janice6 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Mrs.Cicero said: Don't apologize -those are some fun pics/maps. Now I'm watching my kid with the Garmin crossing into AZ... I'll pull up some topo maps tomorrow for a look at where she's hunting. This real-time stalking thing feels pretty weird - when I went backpacking out there(years ago), I just told everyone what state I was heading for, and that I'd be home in a month... Independence is beginning to be a lost art! Congrats on not losing it with your family! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 24 minutes ago, Batesmotel said: I was a history teacher so let me just throw this out. History buffs study wars and battles. Historians study the politics that lead up to wars and battles. With that in mind, the way I taught history was to follow the money. Total game changer to my students. I would agree. War is the result of politics and policy (economic). To be fair military history is so heavily picked over that if you're not starting 100 years before your conflict looking at the history of politics....you just know the functions of the war rather than what brought you there. For example. The 100 years before Pearl Harbor in Japan is as interesting as what will happen between 41 and 45. There is some amazing stuff in there from about 1900 to 41. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Russian quote on history: History does not repeat itself. But it most certainly does rime. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipedreams Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Mrs.Cicero said: Don't apologize -those are some fun pics/maps. Now I'm watching my kid with the Garmin crossing into AZ... I'll pull up some topo maps tomorrow for a look at where she's hunting. This real-time stalking thing feels pretty weird - when I went backpacking out there(years ago), I just told everyone what state I was heading for, and that I'd be home in a month... The GPS devises are a miracle in some areas such as heavy forest or flat desert terrain, well everywhere but it good to have understanding of maps and compasses. Anyone going into the military with firearms and map knowledge has a leg up. Heck many going in now days have never drove a car let alone a truck or any other machinery. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minervadoe Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Historian said: For example. The 100 years before Pearl Harbor in Japan is as interesting as what will happen between 41 and 45. There is some amazing stuff in there from about 1900 to 41. Something like Terry and the Pirates, the Sandpebbles, and Enter the Dragon. The scene in Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story where Jason Scott Lee takes on a couple of sailors by spinning a stone on a chain feels right out of science fiction. Are there books on period that you can recommend? All I've got is The Moro War and Jungle of Snakes by Arnold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minervadoe Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 2 hours ago, willie-pete said: Where is their golf course ? It's that new global warming proof desert type golf course. If it goes down a snake hole, the signs say that you are forbidden to go after it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minervadoe Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Did anyone already post, "Marine Sniper." It's great reading. Amazing story. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, minervadoe said: Something like Terry and the Pirates, the Sandpebbles, and Enter the Dragon. The scene in Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story where Jason Scott Lee takes on a couple of sailors by spinning a stone on a chain feels right out of science fiction. Are there books on period that you can recommend? All I've got is The Moro War and Jungle of Snakes by Arnold. Yeah. I thought the book Rochefort's war did a very nice job of explaining the post WWI navy as well as Japanese history for about 60 years before the war. Rochefort was assigned to Japan to learn the language. And later became a very important person in relation to Pearl and later Midway. He was part of a radio intel team at Pearl. Anyway. There's a lot of very interesting information about Japan between 1900 and 45 within the book. You can see why WWII was a desperate act for them. And I was there by RADM Layton is another good book that covers some of the same material but heavily focuses on the Battle of Midway called "And I was there!" And...I have to add Dan Carlin who has an amazing podcast. He has three episodes on Japan in WWII and does a very nice job of "Setting the table." Rochefort's war may be one of the best history books I've read in the last 10 years. The other was American Promethus. I actually had an email conversation with the authors of that book that resulted in an autographed edition. When a historian day dreams he writes a book...it may be American Promethus. Edited February 8, 2020 by Historian 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 48 minutes ago, Historian said: Russian quote on history: History does not repeat itself. But it most certainly does rime. Markov Twainski? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Historian Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 minute ago, gwalchmai said: Markov Twainski? Yes, it is often said that Mark Twain said it as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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