Aircraft Pic & Vid Thread

[Eric]

[Eric]

[janice6]

7 minutes ago, Eric said:

My first airline flight was in 57 on Western airlines (Champagne Flight).  One went East and the other went West!  How did they get back home?

[railfancwb]

Pan American?


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[gwalchmai]

29 minutes ago, railfancwb said:

Pan American?


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Russian Clipper?

Edited May 29, 2019 by gwalchmai

[Eric]

33 minutes ago, railfancwb said:

Pan American?


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Yep, Boeing 314 Clippers, flown by Pan-American. 

[Eric]

[janice6]

52 minutes ago, Eric said:

Isn't it amazing how just an understanding of the science of aeronautics was able to reduce the absurdity of man.

The slight issue of "lift over drag" seems to be the lesson being learned here.

Edited June 18, 2019 by janice6

[C_Hallbert]

Isn't it amazing how just an understanding of the science of aeronautics was able to reduce the absurdity of man.
The slight issue of "lift over drag" seems to be the lesson being learned here.

It probably takes 30 tons of ballast to remain upright in the water.....


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[tous]

8 hours ago, janice6 said:

Isn't it amazing how just an understanding of the science of aeronautics was able to reduce the absurdity of man.

The slight issue of "lift over drag" seems to be the lesson being learned here.

You sayin' that the, If some wing is good, more wing is better, concept might be flawed?

[janice6]

1 minute ago, tous said:

You sayin' that the, If some wing is good, more wing is better, concept might be flawed?

Maybe, slightly...…………….  I think the wings and the struts are more of a problem than they anticipated.

I was reading that in WW1 fighters the wire bracing on the biplanes even had a noticeable loss in performance.

I'm glad I wasn't born then.  I probably would have tried to fly a piece of junk just like everybody else!

[janice6]

6 minutes ago, tous said:

You sayin' that the, If some wing is good, more wing is better, concept might be flawed?

I think it's like the diabetic thinking that if some Sugar is good, more must be better.

I am conflicted though.  My statements seem to fly in the face of my own philosophy that, "Anything worth doing, is worth doing to excess!".

[tous]

6 minutes ago, janice6 said:

Maybe, slightly...…………….  I think the wings and the struts are more of a problem than they anticipated.

I was reading that in WW1 fighters the wire bracing on the biplanes even had a noticeable loss in performance.

I'm glad I wasn't born then.  I probably would have tried to fly a piece of junk just like everybody else!

It is somewhat sublime and often with, the way of science that the Wright brothers began with the warpable wing, which was superseded by the rigid wing with moveable control surfaces.

The future or atmospheric flight is the 'living wing' that changes shape to achieve the best performance millisecond by millisecond.

We're not quite there yet, but as in many things, in going forward we are going back.

[janice6]

4 minutes ago, tous said:

It is somewhat sublime and often with, the way of science that the Wright brothers began with the warpable wing, which was superseded by the rigid wing with moveable control surfaces.

The future or atmospheric flight is the 'living wing' that changes shape to achieve the best performance millisecond by millisecond.

We're not quite there yet, but as in many things, in going forward we are going back.

Absolutely!  I am also fascinated by the same example you just quoted.  I remember being contacted by "someone" that wanted to know if we could imbed optical fiber in a wing and measure the warp every where along the length using the fiber as a sensor.

Of course, as with most Optical Fiber efforts, the answer is yes, most certainly.  However the price is too much at that time.

When you bend an optical fiber, even slightly you get some leakage of the optical signal proportional to the radius of the bend.  Therefore you could measure the at positions along the wing for the warp that produced the bend.

There was another effort to measure the level in the tanks of cryogenic fuel in an "aircraft" by the temperature causing a shift in the wavelength of Bragg filters (specific wavelength grating filters) on the optical fiber due to the temperature change.  with the shift in wavelength corresponding to the fuel level in the tanks.

I wonder what the approach was for the implementation of the warped wing?

[Dric902]

How about an ittie bitty wing.....you just have too go really fast

[tous]

The first problem that needs to be solved with the living wing is making it continuously malleable and then, how do we power the changes.

Then we can address how to evaluate and control it.

I love the concept.

[Dric902]

Nature is always the best teacher

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/gulls-wings-variable-geometry-aircraft/

The researchers studied how different flexing of the elbow joint affects the in-flight characteristics of the gulls’ wings. Image: Douglas Altshuler, Christina Harvey, UBC/Journal of the Royal Society Interface

“The gull’s wing design points to a novel, and fairly simple, avian-inspired joint that may enable aircraft to adjust dynamically,” said Altshuler. “This is the first empirical evidence demonstrating that wing morphing affects avian stability.”

 

.

[tous]

9 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

How about an ittie bitty wing.....you just have too go really fast

The 1950s and  1960s was a most interesting phase of performance aircraft.

What sort of wing is best for supersonic flight that also works for subsonic flight.

The X-15 had an even smaller wing and tail plane.

Great for going   3,900 knots  (4,500  MPH, 7200 KPH,)  yes, that's MACH 6, but not so great at 150 knots for landing.

One didn't glide the X-15 or F-104 to touchdown, you basically let if fall out of the sky under dubious control.

Edited June 19, 2019 by tous

[janice6]

50 minutes ago, tous said:

The first problem that needs to be solved with the living wing is making it continuously malleable and then, how do we power the changes.

Then we can address how to evaluate and control it.

I love the concept.

Can you imagine how this would simplify the B2 flight controls.

[gwalchmai]

8 hours ago, Dric902 said:

How about an ittie bitty wing.....you just have too go really fast

That's a BAAw/wa (Big Ass Afterburner with wings attached).

[janice6]

7 hours ago, gwalchmai said:

That's a BAAw/wa (Big Ass Afterburner with wings attached).

Common design for 50's pulse jet model aircraft.  Chicken or egg?

 

[tous]

18 hours ago, janice6 said:

When you bend an optical fiber, even slightly you get some leakage of the optical signal proportional to the radius of the bend.  Therefore you could measure the at positions along the wing for the warp that produced the bend.

I like this.

The question is, does temperature effect the reaction of the sensor?

One huge problem we had was, regardless of type of sensor, the reactions changed with the temperature, so we had to compensate.

Okay, we get out slide rules, graph paper and .5 mm pencils; you work on the sensor array, I'll figure out a warpable wing and we'll meet back here on Friday.

[janice6]

Just now, tous said:

I like this.

The question is, does temperature effect the reaction of the sensor?

One huge problem we had was, regardless of type of sensor, the reactions changed with the temperature, so we had to compensate.

Okay, we get out slide rules, graph paper and .5 mm pencils; you work on the sensor array, I'll figure out a warpable wing and we'll meet back here on Friday.

Temp only affects the electronics.  the laser/High Power LED, transmitter would be MIL-SPEC already (That's why they cost so damn much.  However we could mount both in the cockpit and used reduced temp requirements since only the fibers would have to be out in the wing.  They could terminate in the cockpit. 

[janice6]

10 minutes ago, tous said:

I like this.

The question is, does temperature effect the reaction of the sensor?

One huge problem we had was, regardless of type of sensor, the reactions changed with the temperature, so we had to compensate.

Okay, we get out slide rules, graph paper and .5 mm pencils; you work on the sensor array, I'll figure out a warpable wing and we'll meet back here on Friday.

You know, since we are putting optical fibers in the wings, we should utilize the fact that a single mode optical fiber can have more than one optical signal within that fiber with no cross talk, as long as it's a different wavelength (Color).

Now we could also run the stores interface stations on the wing, through the same warp optical fibers, and since we have multiple separate signals in the same fiber, we could utilize more fibers for redundancy of both the warping and the store station control system.  MIL-STD-1760, the store station com standard requires GPS capability too and that is duck soup with the available GHz/Gb bandwidth to an optical fiber. (I helped write the first iteration of this standard). 

[janice6]

18 minutes ago, tous said:

I like this.

The question is, does temperature effect the reaction of the sensor?

One huge problem we had was, regardless of type of sensor, the reactions changed with the temperature, so we had to compensate.

Okay, we get out slide rules, graph paper and .5 mm pencils; you work on the sensor array, I'll figure out a warpable wing and we'll meet back here on Friday.

You may have to get that nerd in the back cubicle to initiate the fiber part of the program since I will be going on vacation soon.