When idiots install the heat pump

[Walt Longmire]

At my dad's where we are experiencing a heat wave from hell. I saw a post about keeping your heat pump cool. Guy was running a sprinkler on his and posted about keeping the heat pump in the shade. So I did about 2 minutes of searching and reading to discover that this heat pump location was obviously chosen by a bonehead. It's out in the open on the sunny side of the house. Also much further from the inside components than what it would have been if it had been located on the north, shady side of the house. Also that north location would have it under the gable eaves for more protection from the elements. I guess we can plan on a relocation if, or when, it needs replacement. You would think the installer would understand how to best locate the heat pump. Maybe it was cloudy that day and the genius didn't possess a compass.....or common sense.

[railfancwb]

15 hours ago, Walt Longmire said:

At my dad's where we are experiencing a heat wave from hell. I saw a post about keeping your heat pump cool. Guy was running a sprinkler on his and posted about keeping the heat pump in the shade. So I did about 2 minutes of searching and reading to discover that this heat pump location was obviously chosen by a bonehead. It's out in the open on the sunny side of the house. Also much further from the inside components than what it would have been if it had been located on the north, shady side of the house. Also that north location would have it under the gable eaves for more protection from the elements. I guess we can plan on a relocation if, or when, it needs replacement. You would think the installer would understand how to best locate the heat pump. Maybe it was cloudy that day and the genius didn't possess a compass.....or common sense.

Possibly chose to position it to benefit from the sun in winter rather than shade in summer.

If a heat pump or pure AC keeps the space cool in 100+ outside days it may be oversize for more normal weather. 

[crockett]

25 minutes ago, railfancwb said:

Possibly chose to position it to benefit from the sun in winter rather than shade in summer.

If a heat pump or pure AC keeps the space cool in 100+ outside days it may be oversize for more normal weather. 

 

My current AC was calculated on that idea that it runs consistently at average summer temps. Less starts for the compressor etc. Until somebody like me moved in that added so many electronics that the HVAC envelope burst no later than 1 PM.

Next system will be installed by me, and I will add 1.5 tons on the same ducting / returns, no matter what anybody says or how loud it will be. Hello 66 F if I want to.

[Cougar_ml]

Many times the homeowner decides to have it placed in a certain location for aesthetic reasons.  

I deal with this with standby generators all the time.

Minimum requirements are 18" from the wall, and 5 feet clearance on all other sides.  10 feet from nearest window recommended.

I've seen them surrounded by solid fences and retaining walls, with 6" clearance front and back, and 2-3 feet each end.

I've seen some installed on the windward side of the house, a couple hundred yards from the ocean.  That unit was being literally sandblasted apart.

Underneath decks also seems popular.  Barely enough clearance to open the lid if you are lucky.

Exhaust side of the generator aimed at an external door 4 feet away in a corner behind the garage, with the furnace air inlet 1 foot away from the exhaust.

My favorite was the one installed a couple feet off the ground on a couple joists with nothing underneath it (larger units tend to have open bottoms, and have to have a plate installed underneath them if raised off the ground), then the intake end had 6" space before a solid wall, the exhaust end had less than 2 feet to another wall, the roof a foot above the unit, and 3 feet behind it to a wall.  Then only 2 feet opening on the front between this shed/overhang and the next building.  As soon as the unit ran for a couple minutes it was recirculating heat and exhaust gasses.  Customer was complaining that it sounded like it wasn't running right.  No $h!t sherlock.

 

another memorable one was a Kohler unit with a polymer (read: plastic) enclosure.  Tucked back into a corner with no clearance on intake end and back, only a little on the front.  The exhaust side would have been open, except the boat trailer was parked there.  The housing was falling apart in our hands trying to open it up because the recirculating heat had cooked it to death.  Luckily not my customer (helping out an associate) so I didn't have to tell the customer the install was wrong and no warranty on his 6 month old generator for falling apart.

 

The manufacturer can recommend everything for the unit to be properly installed for best performance, but that doesn't mean anyone will read the install book.  Heck, we were dealing with generators for a couple years that the battery would drain and gen would die while running more than a few hours because the manufacturer changed how the battery was kept charged and none of the electricians read the new manuals.  They had no training on them (Generac was offering a 1 day class for installers) and had to fix a lot of botched installs due to one wire missing.

[Walt Longmire]

Well I have a plan in the works for a new location for the heat pump should it ever need significant work on my watch.

[Swampfox762]

19 hours ago, crockett said:

 

My current AC was calculated on that idea that it runs consistently at average summer temps. Less starts for the compressor etc. Until somebody like me moved in that added so many electronics that the HVAC envelope burst no later than 1 PM.

Next system will be installed by me, and I will add 1.5 tons on the same ducting / returns, no matter what anybody says or how loud it will be. Hello 66 F if I want to.

My wife likes to live at 66 F...Works for me till I stick my nose out of the covers.

[railfancwb]

31 minutes ago, Swampfox762 said:

My wife likes to live at 66 F...Works for me till I stick my nose out of the covers.

66*. Under the cover. Sounds like snuggling time. 

[Hauptmann6]

On 6/29/2021 at 10:00 AM, Walt Longmire said:

At my dad's where we are experiencing a heat wave from hell. I saw a post about keeping your heat pump cool. Guy was running a sprinkler on his and posted about keeping the heat pump in the shade. So I did about 2 minutes of searching and reading to discover that this heat pump location was obviously chosen by a bonehead. It's out in the open on the sunny side of the house. Also much further from the inside components than what it would have been if it had been located on the north, shady side of the house. Also that north location would have it under the gable eaves for more protection from the elements. I guess we can plan on a relocation if, or when, it needs replacement. You would think the installer would understand how to best locate the heat pump. Maybe it was cloudy that day and the genius didn't possess a compass.....or common sense.

 

Heat pump mechanic here. Don't waste your money. The length of lineset doesn't matter other than you have to add a certain amount of refrigerant at installation to make up for the extra volume.

 

As to the sunnyness of the location. It's not too big of deal . Most large buildings have theirs on a roof. It will add a little extra pressure, but unless you are in the dessert. I wouldn't worry about it. And if it' a heat pump, the sun will add a touch of warmth for it to pull heat from.

[Hauptmann6]

21 hours ago, crockett said:

 

My current AC was calculated on that idea that it runs consistently at average summer temps. Less starts for the compressor etc. Until somebody like me moved in that added so many electronics that the HVAC envelope burst no later than 1 PM.

Next system will be installed by me, and I will add 1.5 tons on the same ducting / returns, no matter what anybody says or how loud it will be. Hello 66 F if I want to.

 

Do not add that much tonnage on the same ducting and returns unless your ducting is sized for it. If it's not you will hate your life and have nothing but problems with the AC unit and moisture in the house.

[tous]

6 of Hauptmann, we need the Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney avatar back in its rightful place.

[crockett]

12 minutes ago, Hauptmann6 said:

 

Do not add that much tonnage on the same ducting and returns unless your ducting is sized for it. If it's not you will hate your life and have nothing but problems with the AC unit and moisture in the house.

 

You mean moisture in the attic. Will be fine, I'll install more booster fans going to every room. Already installed 2. No sweating.

My house was undersized to begin with so 1.5 t will be it. Not playing around with half assed **** anymore.

 

 

[Hauptmann6]

On 6/30/2021 at 11:24 PM, crockett said:

 

You mean moisture in the attic. Will be fine, I'll install more booster fans going to every room. Already installed 2. No sweating.

My house was undersized to begin with so 1.5 t will be it. Not playing around with half assed **** anymore.

 

 

No, I mean moisture in the house. oversized AC units with undersized ducts cause moisture issues and freeze ups.

 

Booster fans. LMFAO.

 

Do whatever you want. You are smarter than the experts.

[Hauptmann6]

On 6/30/2021 at 11:23 PM, tous said:

6 of Hauptmann, we need the Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney avatar back in its rightful place.

Done. Thanks for reminding me

[crockett]

43 minutes ago, Hauptmann6 said:

No, I mean moisture in the house. oversized AC units with undersized ducts cause moisture issues and freeze ups.

 

Booster fans. LMFAO.

 

Do whatever you want. You are smarter than the experts.

 

Adjustable booster fans are a great way to balance the HVAC envelope and pressure for every room, especially after the "experts" fucked this up to begin with. Almost all smaller ducts had kinks and I used much wider and more straps to fix that.

And that being said, my respect for all HVAC techs is zero. Too many times they tried to upsell to the point of complete systems instead of just fixing an issue.

The last guy tried to charge me $380 to replace a cap that I already diagnosed as being bad. His shop was 1 mile from my house. $380 bucks for a 10 min job and 5 min ride is a total joke. I hung up on that quote, placed an order on Amazon, put my 5k BTU backup unit into the bed room window for one night, and fixed the damn cap with the right size the next day, for $15.

Same with local HVAC distributors not selling to consumers, trying to save their scam scheme monopoly of outrageous prices. Luckily, you can get EVERYTHING HVAC related online.

Another HVAC tech came out to replace the fan motor a few years ago, under warranty. Since he didn't bring a puller, he used an entire can of penetrating oil. That **** was all over my drive way and the fan housing. When he put everything back together he didn't clean the fan or the housing. My entire house stunk of that ******* penetrating oil and I had to pull everything apart to clean that mess.

Then the compressor got stuck, I called the manufacturer and they declined the low 5 year warranty because I'm not the original owner. 2 HVAC companies tried to sell me an entire system. Meanwhile I found a new compressor on eBay for $350. Fixed it for now with a massive starter cap. Once the compressor is done I'll replace it myself.

HVAC online forums don't answer consumer questions to prevent them from fixing their problems, forcing them to pay high prices with local HVAC techs.

So yeah, **** the entire HVAC commie industry.

Ever since I do all maintenance, upgrades and repairs myself. Saved a ton of money. Heck, every idiot can get licensed, maybe I'll get one and undermine all local HVACs with massive price-dumps, just because I can. After sitting through 3 college degrees including a masters in Engineering, that will be a vacation.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by crockett

[DAKA]

3 hours ago, crockett said:

 

Adjustable booster fans are a great way to balance the HVAC envelope and pressure for every room, especially after the "experts" ****ed this up to begin with. Almost all smaller ducts had kinks and I used much wider and more straps to fix that.

And that being said, my respect for all HVAC techs is zero. Too many times they tried to upsell to the point of complete systems instead of just fixing an issue.

The last guy tried to charge me $380 to replace a cap that I already diagnosed as being bad. His shop was 1 mile from my house. $380 bucks for a 10 min job and 5 min ride is a total joke. I hung up on that quote, placed an order on Amazon, put my 5k BTU backup unit into the bed room window for one night, and fixed the damn cap with the right size the next day, for $15.

Same with local HVAC distributors not selling to consumers, trying to save their scam scheme monopoly of outrageous prices. Luckily, you can get EVERYTHING HVAC related online.

Another HVAC tech came out to replace the fan motor a few years ago, under warranty. Since he didn't bring a puller, he used an entire can of penetrating oil. That **** was all over my drive way and the fan housing. When he put everything back together he didn't clean the fan or the housing. My entire house stunk of that ****ing penetrating oil and I had to pull everything apart to clean that mess.

Then the compressor got stuck, I called the manufacturer and they declined the low 5 year warranty because I'm not the original owner. 2 HVAC companies tried to sell me an entire system. Meanwhile I found a new compressor on eBay for $350. Fixed it for now with a massive starter cap. Once the compressor is done I'll replace it myself.

HVAC online forums don't answer consumer questions to prevent them from fixing their problems, forcing them to pay high prices with local HVAC techs.

So yeah, **** the entire HVAC commie industry.

Ever since I do all maintenance, upgrades and repairs myself. Saved a ton of money. Heck, every idiot can get licensed, maybe I'll get one and undermine all local HVACs with massive price-dumps, just because I can. After sitting through 3 college degrees including a masters in Engineering, that will be a vacation.

 

 

Yeah, You tell em'

[Fog]

A good HVAC tech is worth every penny you pay him. Sadly I've had to deal with a few less than good ones. 

I had bought a bank repo house. It had sat for a few years, but when power and gas was restored the furnace and AC worked perfectly.

I did a little light cleanup and remodel inside and then hired a local company to clean the ducts.

The tech they sent out from the get go was trying to sell me on a new system, "These old units are just not serviceable anymore, can't get parts, they break down with no warning." No **** sherlock, never yet had an AC unit send me a dream three weeks in advance that it would stop working!

This was late fall. The ducts were now clean, heater ran fine all winter. Next summer the AC would not start. Being more than a little familiar with how everything works I started checking the basic stuff and found the problem right away. The signal wire from the control board to the compressor was disconnected. That's right, both wires taken off their terminals and bent neatly off to the side.

That tech was the last guy to have the cover off. There is no reason to disconnect those wires to make the system safe to work on. They didn't vibrate off and bend themselves back. 

They had plastered the whole unit with stickers for their company's service hotline and website.

None of those stickers are on there anymore.

 

Guy I use now is really good. He's honest.

I'll pick up an old clapped out unit that I got for free or scrap price and he'll take an hour and have it purring like a kitten, making nice cold air. These are commercial window or wall units. He charges me his going hourly rate and it's still way cheaper than a new unit. I sell them cheap or give them to seniors that often didn't have AC before. We'll install them for free and in these record temps I'm pretty sure it's helped them out a little.

That was just the most recent story. I could have a running the thread on dealing with the commercial HVAC units. Sabotage almost seems like an industry standard. We have caught guys doing it on the security cameras! 

If you find a good tech pay him really well, he's worth every penny.

[Hauptmann6]

6 hours ago, Fog said:

 Sabotage almost seems like an industry standard. We have caught guys doing it on the security cameras! 

 

Damn, around here that would get you blackballed from the industry if anyone found out.