Trayvon II: Ahmaud Arbery

[Walt Longmire]

2 hours ago, SC Tiger said:

Something I haven't seen noted is that, had a law enforcement officer - IN UNIFORM - tried to stop this man, he may well have stopped to talk to them.

But two dumbasses bearing weapons and without any sort of credentials tried to stop him - and he probably thought he was going to get lynched or something.  HE HAD NO DAMN IDEA WHAT THEY WANTED!!!!!

As to the people who are using the fact he attacked his attacker, rather than running from them, as a defense of the two shooters - that may be the dumbest ******* thing I have ever read on the internet.  

Are there still lynching going on in Georgia? Maybe he thought they were trying to sell him Girl Scout cookies. We have no way to know what he was thinking. But go ahead and toss out a few hypothesis. 

[Walt Longmire]

1 hour ago, Historian said:

I truly think he chose to fight because he thought it was the end.   Look at it from his point.  He's a black man.  Two white guys jump him from a truck with a gun.  

Simple as that.

Maybe, maybe, maybe.....he was trying to steal the shotgun from them. Maybe. 

[TBO]

I truly think he chose to fight because he thought it was the end.   Look at it from his point.  He's a black man.  Two white guys jump him from a truck with a gun.  
Simple as that.

Don't forget that by the Bubba's own words they pursued him and tried to cut off/corner him 3 times (with him reversing direction to get away only to have the Bubbas do the same).

Sent from my Jackboot using Copatalk

[Historian]

51 minutes ago, Walt Longmire said:

Are there still lynching going on in Georgia? Maybe he thought they were trying to sell him Girl Scout cookies. We have no way to know what he was thinking. But go ahead and toss out a few hypothesis. 

Yes, it sadly does happen in the South today.  Rare but it does happen.  The last one in state was about 1929.  They executed about five people over a stolen pig.  Ever see the movie Rosewood?  About a small town in Florida?  That was 1923 when the Klan ran everyone out of the city and burned to the ground.  I remember watching that movie many years ago.  But the place is real.

I used to park my patrol car next to a building that if you looked at it just right you could see the faded paint that said blacks needed to enter through the back door and sit upstairs in the theater.  Even today every city in that county self segregated by choice as well as economics.  That was 1998 and the same year James Bird was dragged to death.  It was only 1946 that Georgia had it's last lynching. The last official lynching in the US was in Alabama in 1981.

I went to lunch with one of the finest men i've known in my life.   As we sat there he told me as a child his mother would take him to the very building we were sitting in (it was a department store them) and he explained how they always had to enter through the back door. 

A year ago i had dinner with a nice old lady from Church who told me when she and her family moved to this region in the 1940s they had a cross burned in their yard....because they were Catholic.

But racism is burned in the memory of people.   A lot of people teach their kids to watch out for it...because it's still there. 

The history isn't that old. For many the scars are fresh.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Historian
Cleaned up for clarity

[Dric902]

Black, white, or green
South or North

 

you do not have a “right” to stop and question me

 

.

[Historian]

25 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

you do not have a “right” to stop and question me

Even cops must have a reasonable reason to detain you.  

 

[Wrango]

3 hours ago, Historian said:

I truly think he chose to fight because he thought it was the end.   Look at it from his point.  He's a black man.  Two white guys jump him from a truck with a gun.  

Simple as that.

Or it could be that he was up to something and knew they had called the cops and was gonna get arrested.  Again, just another maybe.

[Historian]

5 minutes ago, Wrango said:

Or it could be that he was up to something and knew they had called the cops and was gonna get arrested.  Again, just another maybe.

Let me be frank.  Ive been a cop most of my life.  You can't kill someone on maybes.

 

[Wyzz Kydd]

On 5/7/2020 at 10:31 PM, TBO said:

Driver of truck gets out with a shotgun, stands his ground... then goes up and around the front of his truck... closing in on the jogger... and a struggle over the gun ensues.

If two unknown guys with guns chased you down what would you do?

If a guy holding a shotgun on you closed up right on top of you... Would it be safer to try to run away, or seize the gun?

Do you have a right to defend yourself from unknown men who rush up to you with guns drawn?

Sent from my Jack boot using Copatalk
 

These are easy questions TBO.

 

1. Find cover, let them come to me, then shoot them.

2. Neither, deflect barrel away with left hand, shoot multiple times with right hand.

3. Doesn't matter to me if I have the right to or not, I'm damn sure not letting anyone run up on me with guns drawn without them paying a price. 

[Wyzz Kydd]

Even if we assume everything those guys claimed is true, the kid did steal their gun, he was breaking into houses, he did enter the home under construction with the intent to steal something, even if all of that is true, that still doesn't make it legitimate for them to chase him down in a truck and confront him with drawn weapons.  From the video it looked like they got off a shot at him before he had even stopped jogging and the wrestling for the shotgun had begun. 

[Walt Longmire]

7 minutes ago, Historian said:

Let me be frank.  Ive been a cop most of my life.  You can't kill someone on maybes.

 

Maybe you can. But maybe it would be illegal.

[Walt Longmire]

2 minutes ago, Wyzz Kydd said:

Even if we assume everything those guys claimed is true, the kid did steal their gun, he was breaking into houses, he did enter the home under construction with the intent to steal something, even if all of that is true, that still doesn't make it legitimate for them to chase him down in a truck and confront him with drawn weapons.  From the video it looked like they got off a shot at him before he had even stopped jogging and the wrestling for the shotgun had begun. 

It got out of hand. Escalated. 

I had some tweakers haul ass past my place at about twice the speed limit. I was standing in my driveway talking with my 7 year old neighbor kid on the other side of the street. I was tempted to drive back to the residence they went to and confront them. But I knew better. 

[Historian]

6 minutes ago, Walt Longmire said:

Maybe you can. But maybe it would be illegal.

Oh you'll end up in court.  For sure.  And trying to explain that is not going to be easy.

[SC Tiger]

2 hours ago, Walt Longmire said:

Maybe, maybe, maybe.....he was trying to steal the shotgun from them. Maybe. 

They approached him with a weapon in hand and they were not cops.  If Arbery had been armed and shot both of them, it would have been a clean shoot.  

14 minutes ago, Historian said:

Let me be frank.  Ive been a cop most of my life.  You can't kill someone on maybes.

 

It won't end well for you if you do.

2 hours ago, Walt Longmire said:

Are there still lynching going on in Georgia? Maybe he thought they were trying to sell him Girl Scout cookies. We have no way to know what he was thinking. But go ahead and toss out a few hypothesis. 

If you approach someone while brandishing a weapon, on a public street, you have officially threatened that person and you cannot claim self-defense.  They could kill you legally, but you cannot legally kill them.

Honestly, I can't say for sure that if he had just "stopped and talked" that it would have ended any differently.  These two seem like two pretty dim bulbs.

[SC Tiger]

5 minutes ago, Walt Longmire said:

It got out of hand. Escalated. 

I had some tweakers haul ass past my place at about twice the speed limit. I was standing in my driveway talking with my 7 year old neighbor kid on the other side of the street. I was tempted to drive back to the residence they went to and confront them. But I knew better. 

Smart move.  Because if you did while carrying a weapon in your hands, and they killed you, it would have been legal.

Not saying you would have done that though.

[Jack Ryan]

On 5/9/2020 at 2:16 PM, Dric902 said:

When all the political crap, racist BS, conspiracy theories, and race baiter crap is over, we may find out what really happened.

we have a dead man who shouldn’t be dead and a ‘not cop’ who shot him.
There has to be a “normal and prudent person would have feared for his life or grievous bodily harm” defense somewhere or it’s gonna be a circus.

 

judging from this thread......circus

 

.

I don't CARE about ANY OF THEM. All I KNOW about the whole situation is from this one thread right here and some of the links and links to links in this thread.

All I see is the the same old story. That kid is a convicted criminal. Period. Those other two should have got out their cell phones instead of their shot guns. Taken his picture and called the police. May be follow him around until the police show up.  The media is trying to squeeze a halo on the kid and tar the other two. That much I'm positive of.

From the links and the vids, if I had to guess, I'd guess the kid is STILL a thief and he was on a mission at the time. Recon. You pretty much can't arrest people for that and the "citizens" sure can't just shoot people for it.

The citizens sure as heck CAN own shotguns and hand guns AND they sure as heck CAN ride around with them in a pick up truck. They sure as heck DO NOT have to turn tail and run home immediately upon seeing anyone in general or specifically. They had ever right to drive down that street same as the black kid had every right to "jog" down the sidewalk. If he had done his jogging on the sidewalk instead of the middle of the freaking street he might be alive today. You are NOT ENTITLED to jog in the middle of city streets, although you may not shoot them for it. Had they run him down accidentally with the truck no one would know any of their names by now.

 

[Wyzz Kydd]

1 minute ago, Walt Longmire said:

It got out of hand. Escalated. 

I had some tweakers haul ass past my place at about twice the speed limit. I was standing in my driveway talking with my 7 year old neighbor kid on the other side of the street. I was tempted to drive back to the residence they went to and confront them. But I knew better. 

Yes, but in your case, you witnessed a violation.  These guys just suspected he was the guy they were looking for. 

 

I chased a guy out of my house (here in Georgia) with a shotgun and blew out two of his tires as he tried to get away.  No problem with local LEOs.  Had he tried to take the shotgun away from me he would have gotten shot for sure, but I expect there wouldn't be a problem with that as I witnessed him committing a forcible felony and had a legal right to stop him, if he escalates, too bad for him.

That's not what happened here.  Walking into a construction site isn't a forcible felony and their connecting him to the theft of their pistol in the past isn't the same as stopping a forcible felony in the present. 

[Dric902]

23 minutes ago, Jack Ryan said:

That kid is a convicted criminal. Period. Those other two should have got out their cell phones instead of their shot guns. Taken his picture and called the police. May be follow him around until the police show up. 
that much is very true

 if I had to guess, I'd guess the kid is STILL a thief and he was on a mission at the time. Recon.

That’s complete conjecture with no evidence at all. You can’t guess

You pretty much can't arrest people for that and the "citizens" sure can't just shoot people for it.

right

The citizens sure as heck CAN own shotguns and hand guns AND they sure as heck CAN ride around with them in a pick up truck. They sure as heck DO NOT have to turn tail and run home immediately upon seeing anyone in general or specifically. They had ever right to drive down that street same as the black kid had every right to "jog" down the sidewalk.
they were “pursuing him”

If he had done his jogging on the sidewalk instead of the middle of the freaking street he might be alive today.

 That’s blatantly stupid, if he had jogged on the sidewalk they would not have shot him??

You are NOT ENTITLED to jog in the middle of city streets, although you may not shoot them for it. Had they run him down accidentally with the truck no one would know any of their names by now.

 They admitted that they pursued him, blocked him, stopped him. Not because he was running in the street

(which, btw, you can run any damn where you please. As long as it’s not someone’s property)

 

This is not a case of two good old boys cruising around in their truck practicing their 2A, and just happened across a black guy running in the street. So they pulled over to tell him he isn’t entitled to run in the street, to get on the sidewalk. And the black guy attacked him, he just so happened to have a shotgun in his hand at the time.

 

thats dumb

 

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[Historian]

I think the next thread i want to be involved with is 9mm versus .45.

Should have the same outcome.  ?

[Moshe]

17 hours ago, Dric902 said:

With respect 

that has nothing to do with this shooting. No evidence of any gang affiliation, cell membership, or “24” style super secret ulterior motives.

not a script, not a novel, not a B movie. Two civilians shot and killed a man, they must either justify it or pay a price for it.

the dead guys history, political views, Facebook opinions, twitter rants, arrest record, “What I would have done is....”

have nothing to do with it.

.

So, no investigation, nothing to see here?  Sorry, there is always more to the story, and all homicides must be investigated.  Were the victims white?  Were the victims Jewish?  Why were the victims targeted?  What is the criminal history and affiliations of the shooter?  Why did he pick a veteran's cemetery?  Had he been there before?  Does he have any affiliations?  What were they?  You may not find it interesting, but I guarantee you the DOD and DOJ do.  My point, is why is one front page news, and the other back story news?  Because the melanin was reversed?  Anytime there is white on black violence that's news, the reverse, isn't.  That is the vestiges of 8 years of Obama/Holder race baiting.

I try not to look at things myopically, but the whole case and why something matters.  Back when seniority did matter, if I did not glean a story that impacted one of investigations by the morning it led to ear spank and virtual knuckle whacking.  Leads were always followed up.  Just because everyone is dead doesn't mean the investigation is over. For me it was a trip to the UNM ME's Office, that smelled of formaldehyde and death before you got to the door.  There was no getting lost looking for that.  It was worse inside.  You collected your DOA photos of bloated dead corpses and crushed and empty skulls and try to work backwards to figure out who owned the vehicle, to discover the plates are switched.  You play with the VIN and see where that gets you. You then work with Consulates and attaches to try to ascertain nationality and by the pocket trash in the dead people's clothing that may/or many not contain a correct ID from that Country, considering there were forged one's coming out of the Mexican Consulate.

I could go on.  But, the fact that everyone is dead is not a dead end investigation. 

[Fnfalman]

I don’t know how true this picture is but I’m just throwing it out there. 
 

[SC Tiger]

27 minutes ago, Fnfalman said:

I don’t know how true this picture is but I’m just throwing it out there. 
 

Pretty sure Andy Ngo (independent journalist) figured out that wasn't the guy.

At this point we don't know that the shooters were racists - they may have just been idiots.

[Dric902]

38 minutes ago, Moshe said:

So, no investigation, nothing to see here?  Sorry, there is always more to the story, and all homicides must be investigated.  Were the victims white?  Were the victims Jewish?  Why were the victims targeted?  What is the criminal history and affiliations of the shooter?  Why did he pick a veteran's cemetery?  Had he been there before?  Does he have any affiliations?  What were they?  You may not find it interesting, but I guarantee you the DOD and DOJ do.  My point, is why is one front page news, and the other back story news?  Because the melanin was reversed?  Anytime there is white on black violence that's news, the reverse, isn't.  That is the vestiges of 8 years of Obama/Holder race baiting.

I try not to look at things myopically, but the whole case and why something matters.  Back when seniority did matter, if I did not glean a story that impacted one of investigations by the morning it led to ear spank and virtual knuckle whacking.  Leads were always followed up.  Just because everyone is dead doesn't mean the investigation is over. For me it was a trip to the UNM ME's Office, that smelled of formaldehyde and death before you got to the door.  There was no getting lost looking for that.  It was worse inside.  You collected your DOA photos of bloated dead corpses and crushed and empty skulls and try to work backwards to figure out who owned the vehicle, to discover the plates are switched.  You play with the VIN and see where that gets you. You then work with Consulates and attaches to try to ascertain nationality and by the pocket trash in the dead people's clothing that may/or many not contain a correct ID from that Country, considering there were forged one's coming out of the Mexican Consulate.

I could go on.  But, the fact that everyone is dead is not a dead end investigation. 

Other than the massive, incredible, enormous, in depth, senior agent of agents, super secret squirrel, ultra black ops, tippy top above top secret, expertise.....

 

two civilians pursued and shot a black guy when neither of them had any fear of grievous bodily harm or death. No knowledge of a crime being committed, no knowledge of the history of the individual, other than “you just know....” “I bet he......”

and if they can’t justify it, they will get their Billy Badass body slammed.

thats not conjecture, no formaldehyde, no supposition, no bloated bodies.......they had reason to shoot or they did not.

nobody in this thread has identified any reason for him to be shot, none. Stupid teenage boy BS (I just happened to be driving around with my shotgun and being a good citizen. I warned the person to stay off the street, with my shotgun in my hand, pointed in his general direction. And he jumped me)

 

would a normal and prudent person be in fear of immediate death or bodily harm???? thats the standard. 
the rest of the BS walks

 

.

 

[AK_Stick]

3 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

Other than the massive, incredible, enormous, in depth, senior agent of agents, super secret squirrel, ultra black ops, tippy top above top secret, expertise.....

 

two civilians pursued and shot a black guy when neither of them had any fear of grievous bodily harm or death. No knowledge of a crime being committed, no knowledge of the history of the individual, other than “you just know....” “I bet he......”

and if they can’t justify it, they will get their Billy Badass body slammed.

thats not conjecture, no formaldehyde, no supposition, no bloated bodies.......they had reason to shoot or they did not.

nobody in this thread has identified any reason for him to be shot, none. Stupid teenage boy BS (I just happened to be driving around with my shotgun and being a good citizen. I warned the person to stay off the street, with my shotgun in my hand, pointed in his general direction. And he jumped me)

 

would a normal and prudent person be in fear of immediate death or bodily harm???? thats the standard. 
the rest of the BS walks

 

.

 

He’s still in fantasy land about a different shooting. He’s not even talking about the Arbery shooting. 

[Swampfox762]

One thing I have been able to surmise from this thread, are a few new personalities I would not really get along with if I ever met the particular people in person. 

Couple of em I already had figured out.  Just learned about a few "new" ones.

Course I know a few of ya ain't real fond of my opinions too, so...."It's all good".