Police officer enters wrong apartment ,shoots tenant

[willie-pete]

Going to hazard a guess that it will be more than manslaughter when this one is over.

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/texas-officer-faces-manslaughter-charge-neighbors-death-051802624.html

 

"She parked on the fourth floor, instead of the third, where she lived. When she put her key in the unlocked apartment door, it opened. Inside, the lights were off. Then she saw a figure in the darkness, the newspaper reported.

The officer concluded that her apartment was being burglarized, drew her weapon and fired twice. When she turned on the lights, she realized she was in the wrong unit, according to the paper."
 

[ASH]

[SevenSixtyTwo]

2 hours ago, willie-pete said:

Going to hazard a guess that it will be more than manslaughter when this one is over.

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/texas-officer-faces-manslaughter-charge-neighbors-death-051802624.html

 

"She parked on the fourth floor, instead of the third, where she lived. When she put her key in the unlocked apartment door, it opened. Inside, the lights were off. Then she saw a figure in the darkness, the newspaper reported.

The officer concluded that her apartment was being burglarized, drew her weapon and fired twice. When she turned on the lights, she realized she was in the wrong unit, according to the paper."
 

 I'm sure I'm not alone in the habit of reaching in and flipping on the light switch by every entrance door I've ever been through when it's dark to make a quick scan of the room for any hazard as I enter even as trivial as cat puke on the floor. Especially if I were so jumpy I'd draw and shoot at shadows in the dark not knowing if it were a family member, maintenance personel, a burglar or bigfoot. Firearm safety rule #4. Situational awareness nonexistent. Didn't know where she was? I'm still not convinced.

[MikeG36]

I've done stupid **** after working long hours multiple days. Like getting into the wrong car. I hit the unlock button as i was walking up. Heard the beep. Opened the door and sat down. Then I was WTF is all this garbage doing in my car? My identical car was parked exactly one row behind. ? 

 

That said, she was pretty quick on the trigger. Accidental shooting or not, she's probably going to go down in flames. Good lessons to be learned from this one.

[willie-pete]

1 hour ago, SevenSixtyTwo said:

 I'm sure I'm not alone in the habit of reaching in and flipping on the light switch by every entrance door I've ever been through when it's dark to make a quick scan of the room for any hazard as I enter even as trivial as cat puke on the floor. Especially if I were so jumpy I'd draw and shoot at shadows in the dark not knowing if it were a family member, maintenance personel, a burglar or bigfoot. Firearm safety rule #4. Situational awareness nonexistent. Didn't know where she was? I'm still not convinced.

There is a really old adage when working in the light or dark with guns.

 

If you are in the dark; stay in the dark.

If you are in the light; light up the dark.

 

 

 

[Andyd]

No matter how sad the outcome of Guyger´s wrongful acion is, anyone who even was admitted to law school will know the difference in between murder and manslaughter. I do not think that any reasonable person will argue that she is gravely at fault. Charging her with murder could easily cause that the jury will find insufficient prove of malice aforethought and lead to not guilty verdict and end of criminal charges under double jeopardy. If I were the DA, I surely would not want to run that risk and see her being cleared of criminnal charges and only dealing with a civil wrongful death suit.

Manslaughter is an unlawful killing that doesn't involve malice aforethought—intent to seriously harm or kill, or extreme, reckless disregard for life. The absence of malice aforethought means that manslaughter involves less moral blame than either first or second degree murder.

 

Common Law Murder

At common law, murder was defined as killing another human being with malice aforethought. Malice aforethought is a legal term of art, that encompasses the following types of murder:

• "Intent-to-kill murder"
• "Grievous-bodily-harm murder" - Killing someone in an attack intended to cause them grievous bodily harm. For example, if the defendant fatally stabbed the victom, even if the defendant only intended to wound the victim, the defendant would still be liable for murder.
• "Felony-murder" - Killing someone while in the process of committing a felony. Note that at common law, there were few felonies, and all carried the death penalty. For example, at common law, robbery was a felony. So if a robber accidentally killed someone during a robbery, the robber could be executed.
• "Depraved heart murder" - Killing someone in a way that demonstrates a callous disregard for the value of human life. For example, if a person intentionally fires a gun into a crowded room, and someone dies, the person could be convicted of depraved heart murder.

These definitions are valuable because they inform subsequent reforms of American murder law.

 

Edited September 11, 2018 by Andyd

[SC Tiger]

On 9/9/2018 at 11:45 AM, Sgt 127 said:

There’s a scenario that could  have occurred that would explain her reaction. 

She keeps trying to open the door. Can’t figure out why “her” apartment is locked. 

He hears someone messing with “his” door.  He thinks someone is trying to break into his apartment  

He runs over to the door and jerks it open with a “who the F are you?”  Maybe even with a bat or something in his hand  

She already thinks something is up. She startled and shoots him thinking the “burglar” of “her” apartment is attacking her. 

He seemed like a really decent guy. There is no way I believe he would have intentionally attacked a Police Officer. 

None of this should have happened. It’s on her. No way around it. Just trying to figure out how it went to deadly force that fast. 

Latest version isn't that different:

Officer gets off on wrong floor.  She goes to what she thinks is her door, and it's not completely closed.  She draws her weapon (suspecting a break in) sees someone in the apartment, and shouts a command.  He doesn't follow and she shoots him.  She then turns the light on and realizes that it is the wrong apartment.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/10/arrest-affidavit-dallas-police-officer-who-killed-neighbor-sheds-light-on-controversy.html

I don't know how that aligns with Dallas PD procedure even if it HAD been her apartment.  But it is a tragedy regardless.

Were I the LEO union for that city, while I wouldn't try to use the excess OT as an excuse I would call for changes and get some damn more police!

Edited September 11, 2018 by SC Tiger

[Sgt 127]

Yeah. That ain’t happening anytime soon. Dallas is 1000 Officers short. The retirement system is on life support, they have draconian policies and IA is working overtime on any minor violation. 

[PNWguy]

The only problem with her statement that the door was slightly ajar is that there are supposedly a couple of witnesses who heard her banging on the door and yelling to let her in.

 

Still, the idiot race-baiters are already protesting when this is clearly not about race.  Whatever version you believe, the room was dark and she had no way to know what race the man was. 

[Silentpoet]

12 minutes ago, PNWguy said:

The only problem with her statement that the door was slightly ajar is that there are supposedly a couple of witnesses who heard her banging on the door and yelling to let her in.

 

Still, the idiot race-baiters are already protesting when this is clearly not about race.  Whatever version you believe, the room was dark and she had no way to know what race the man was. 

There were also people saying hands up...

[MikeG36]

On 9/11/2018 at 8:03 AM, Silentpoet said:

There were also people saying hands up...

True. And there were also people who told the truth. Forensic evidence supported the truth tellers in that case and I'm sure it will in this case as well. She should be charged manslaughter. 

[Cougar_ml]

So my take on all this is that she is responsible for the death of a man who she had no reason to kill.

There doesn't seem to be any malice or forethought in her actions, so that seems to eliminate a murder charge.

That leaves manslaughter.  (I hate that word.  It's too long and looks like it should be split into "mans laughter)

Despite what she thought, she didn't have any right to enter the apartment she attempted to enter, nor any legitimate reason to shoot the person inside the apartment.  

If it was as dark in the apartment as it sounds like it was, then race shouldn't be any type of factor in this either.  

It sounds like her reason for shooting is that the person inside failed to follow her instructions.  Unless she had some reason to believe that he was armed and/or ready to attack her, that in and of itself does not sound like a legitimate reason to shoot someone.  It was too dark for her to even identify that the inside was not her apartment, how is she able to determine anything else?  

 

While it was a terrible mistake on her part, she is still responsible for the actions that she committed.  Whether she was tired, or drunk, or on any illicit substance, none of that is ever an excuse that pardons the actions of an individual.  If you are unable to cope with a job that requires you to work extremely long shifts and go home so tired that you can't even make it to your apartment, then you are in the wrong line of work.  I don't think those are mitigating factors in any crime, as you willingly or knowingly put yourself into that condition.

 

There is no excuse to end the life of a person minding their own business in their own apartment.  None.  She can spout anything she wants to, but the facts remain the same, she killed an innocent man in his own home.

[Mike]

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lawyer-for-dallas-man-shot-in-home-by-police-slams-attempt-to-smear-victim/ar-BBNjKxi?ocid=spartanntp

[willie-pete]

5 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/lawyer-for-dallas-man-shot-in-home-by-police-slams-attempt-to-smear-victim/ar-BBNjKxi?ocid=spartanntp

"The warrant said the door was "slightly ajar," but Merritt said that would not be possible because the front doors shut automatically. He said he has had contact with three neighbors who heard Guyger knocking or pounding on the door.

The arrest warrant said it was dark, Guyger saw a figure she didn't recognize and the person did not comply with her commands. She believed "she had encountered a burglar," the affidavit for arrest states.

The story changed with the subsequent affidavit to search Jean's apartment, which said the officer "was attempting to enter apartment number 1478, with a set of keys."

 

 

If the story is changing; somebody is lying; I don't think it is the dead guy.

[AerynSun2]

Never Talk to the police. 

[willie-pete]

This is really a good faith question. I have been away from LE firearms training for a good while now and back in the dark ages ( sorry ) it was always use light to ID.

Does any department/agency actually teach to shoot without light or to use light to ID target. Or is she a one-off aberration that went off her training for whatever reason?

[SevenSixtyTwo]

On 9/11/2018 at 10:50 AM, PNWguy said:

The only problem with her statement that the door was slightly ajar is that there are supposedly a couple of witnesses who heard her banging on the door and yelling to let her in.

 

Still, the idiot race-baiters are already protesting when this is clearly not about race.  Whatever version you believe, the room was dark and she had no way to know what race the man was. 

IF that's true, it changes everything about how she wound up in his apartment. Goes back to my first post.

[TBO]

The "witnesses" are coming from the family of the deceased attorney..... who previously represented two false narratives in shootings (Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown.

Sent from my Jack boot using Copatalk

[Silentpoet]

2 minutes ago, TBO said:

The "witnesses" are coming from the family of the deceased attorney..... who previously represented two false narratives in shootings (Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown.

Sent from my Jack boot using Copatalk
 

But they put it on the internet, it must be true.

[SevenSixtyTwo]

14 minutes ago, TBO said:

The "witnesses" are coming from the family of the deceased attorney..... who previously represented two false narratives in shootings (Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown.

Sent from my Jack boot using Copatalk
 

Yet another fantastic reason to not shoot up da black guy just cause he home. Oops! 

[ASH]

The blue line is thick in here. The shooting officer is a liar .changing stories to fit the narrative. The truth will  show itself. One way or another. Just have to get the ducks in a row

Edited September 15, 2018 by ASH

[willie-pete]

1 hour ago, ASH said:

The blue line is thick in here. The shooting officer is a liar .changing stories to fit the narrative. The truth will  show itself. One way or another. Just have to get the ducks in a row

I actually prefer that they get their ducks lined up;

 

 

but I take your point.

 

[Mike]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/the-worst-police-shooting-yet/ar-BBNckVz?ocid=spartanntp

[willie-pete]

From the article;

"She “drew her firearm” and “gave verbal commands,” which she claims Jean ignored. She fired twice, and only then, she says, entered the apartment, called 911, turned on the lights, and realized she’d made a terrible mistake."

 

If the lights were out; how did she know he wasn't complying?

 

I think she needs to STFU; as her lawyer has probably already told her.

[TBO]

3 hours ago, willie-pete said:

From the article;

"She “drew her firearm” and “gave verbal commands,” which she claims Jean ignored. She fired twice, and only then, she says, entered the apartment, called 911, turned on the lights, and realized she’d made a terrible mistake."

 

If the lights were out; how did she know he wasn't complying?

 

I think she needs to STFU; as her lawyer has probably already told her.

#1. Lights were out, but how well could she see? Pitch black, greyed out?

#2. "She needs to STFU, as her lawyer has probably already told her"?

She gave a statement that night, likely before contacting any attorney, or is it your assuration she's out giving daily speeches?