Police officer enters wrong apartment ,shoots tenant

[PATCHMAN]

8 minutes ago, G26S239 said:

This is a discussion forum and this incident is being discussed. And not just here either but at other websites and in homes and businesses all over the nation. It will continue to be discussed and what ifs will be brought up as they have been here. 

I get this is a forum and people will discuss what ifs from now until the investigation is concluded.  And I am sure there will be continued discussions of what ifs of this incident long after the investigation is done. 

 

I also understand people have biases against LE and will post the most fanciful statements under the guise of "discussions" reflecting their anti-LE bias.   I get it that some of these posters won't take well to my responses.    

[PATCHMAN]

6 minutes ago, Sgt 127 said:

There’s a scenario that could  have occurred that would explain her reaction. 

She keeps trying to open the door. Can’t figure out why “her” apartment is locked. 

He hears someone messing with “his” door.  He thinks someone is trying to break into his apartment  

He runs over to the door and jerks it open with a “who the F are you?”  Maybe even with a bat or something in his hand  

She already thinks something is up. She startled and shoots him thinking the “burglar” of “her” apartment is attacking her. 

He seemed like a really decent guy. There is no way I believe he would have intentionally attacked a Police Officer. 

None of this should have happened. It’s on her. No way around it. Just trying to figure out how it went to deadly force that fast. 

Yes, to me this is the most likely scenario.  Result is tragic, no question.  How at this point in time some posters are calling her a corrupt cop is beyond me.  

Edited September 9, 2018 by PATCHMAN

[G26S239]

On 9/8/2018 at 2:35 AM, G26S239 said:

This is a horrible screw up on her part, about as bad as Officer Mehserie shooting Oscar Grant while he was face down on the BART train platform. In that case the police were quelling a disturbance and Mehserie just totally screwed the pooch. In this case it is just plain fucked up. Her attorney should advise her to shut up immediately, she will not be employable as a cop even if she skates on conviction. 

Here I stated unequivocally that she screwed up. I also stated that she will not be employable as a cop however this turns out.

On 9/8/2018 at 6:48 AM, G26S239 said:

I disagree. She is a cop until the point the Dept terminates her employment.

I also stated the above ^^^ regarding her status as a cop.

12 minutes ago, PATCHMAN said:

Well, when we know she lied to cover her tracks about what happened, I'll call her corrupt. 

 

Right now, all I know is she tried to enter an apartment she believed was her own.  If you believe that's corruption on her part, you're being dishonest.      

So Patchman. if you want to attribute any declarative statements, as opposed to the what ifs, about this officer and this case to me other than what is quoted above find the posts and quote them.

[Al Czervik]

Sounds more like it should be a murder charge in Texas.

[G26S239]

18 minutes ago, PATCHMAN said:

I get this is a forum and people will discuss what ifs from now until the investigation is concluded.  And I am sure there will be continued discussions of what ifs of this incident long after the investigation is done. 

 

I also understand people have biases against LE and will post the most fanciful statements under the guise of "discussions" reflecting their anti-LE bias.   I get it that some of these posters won't take well to my responses.    

I already quoted my declarative statements in reference to this incident/this cop in a post above. Since you seem to choose to construe negative responses to this incident as anti LEO across the board than that is too damned bad for you. 

[PATCHMAN]

37 minutes ago, G26S239 said:

I don't know. That possibility was brought up on page one of this thread and I responded to that supposition.

 

33 minutes ago, PATCHMAN said:

Well, when we know she lied to cover her tracks about what happened, I'll call her corrupt. 

 

Right now, all I know is she tried to enter an apartment she believed was her own.  If you believe that's corruption on her part, you're being dishonest.      

And from that supposition, you've gone on at every point to paint her as dirty or corrupt.

Since you have expressed such a strong position on dishonesty and corrupt behavior, so for the record I'll just note that you edited your post by adding the second sentence about one minute after I quoted the same post, which didn't have the second sentence.  

[PATCHMAN]

3 minutes ago, G26S239 said:

I already quoted my declarative statements in reference to this incident/this cop in a post above. Since you seem to choose to construe negative responses to this incident as anti LEO across the board than that is too damned bad for you. 

I simply noted that fanciful statements were made by posters who have historically demonstrated their bias against LE.  

Edited September 9, 2018 by PATCHMAN

[G26S239]

2 minutes ago, PATCHMAN said:

 

And from that supposition, you've gone on at every point to paint her as dirty or corrupt.

Since you have expressed such a strong position on dishonesty and corrupt behavior, so for the record I'll just note that you edited your post by adding the second sentence about one minute after I quoted the same post, which didn't have the second sentence.  

That is a flat out lie. Find the post where I stated that she is dirty or corrupt. You can't. Because it is not there.

[G26S239]

5 minutes ago, PATCHMAN said:

I simply noted that fanciful statements were made by posters who have historically demonstrated their bias against LE.  

Prove the bias that you claim I have. I have thousands of posts at GT and just over 220 here. 

Edited September 9, 2018 by G26S239

[RenoF250]

On 9/8/2018 at 1:48 AM, ASH said:

there is a pattern here lol  ,serious question  ,  if it was a family member of yours  would you feel different ?  

what does a ransacked room  have to do with killing someone in their own  apartment  ?  

every police thread you make excuses  for leo , i guess birds of a feather  flock together is really real .   

with all the excuses you make for leo  god help the innocent people  you encounter that people do not know about  ,  you are a special 

kind of person   and i mean that from the heart  my friend ,  

 

i think i get it  , clean up your ransacked  apartment or house  or you might get shot by police .   makes sense to me . 

damn 430 am here i better get some sleep i got some cleaning up to around the house today  .  note to self

 

FWIW I don't see anything he wrote as defending her, just a summary of the facts at the time.  I think you may be making too much of his "history".

Even if it was her apartment she does not get to just walk in and start blasting.  She is done.

Had one here in Reno years back where the kicked in the door of the wrong house.  Home owner grabbed a fire poker and they shot and killed him.  I would abolish no knock raids for all but VERY rare circumstances.

[ASH]

agreed  ,   , it has happened here in NC   few times   and a few times is not acceptable   but it happens .   like someone stated this is a discussion  board and everyone in the world is biased toward one thing or another ,  i think some more then others  and in some professions bias  is really   just a dick move .  , as in you do not think like i do then you are wrong god complex. 

 

what i love about this site  is  its an even keel .  and some members do not have that protection  they had at other sites .  ERIC has this site rolling right and everyone is equal .  the protection some cliches   had on the web  aint here .  

 

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by ASH

[willie-pete]

21 minutes ago, ASH said:

agreed  ,   , it has happened here in NC   few times   and a few times is not acceptable   but it happens .   like someone stated this is a discussion  board and everyone in the world is biased toward one thing or another ,  i think some more then others  and in some professions bias  is really   just a dick move .  , as in you do not think like i do then you are wrong god complex. 

 

what i love about this site  is  its an even keel .  and some members do not have that protection  they had at other sites .  ERIC has this site rolling right and everyone is equal .  the protection some cliches   had on the web  aint here .  

 

 

 

 

[ASH]

[Wyzz Kydd]

6 hours ago, Sgt 127 said:

There’s a scenario that could  have occurred that would explain her reaction. 

She keeps trying to open the door. Can’t figure out why “her” apartment is locked. 

He hears someone messing with “his” door.  He thinks someone is trying to break into his apartment  

He runs over to the door and jerks it open with a “who the F are you?”  Maybe even with a bat or something in his hand  

She already thinks something is up. She startled and shoots him thinking the “burglar” of “her” apartment is attacking her. 

He seemed like a really decent guy. There is no way I believe he would have intentionally attacked a Police Officer. 

None of this should have happened. It’s on her. No way around it. Just trying to figure out how it went to deadly force that fast. 

I think this is probably the best case scenario for her, no bad intent, but a colossal mistake. If it turns out that this, or something close to it, is what happened she should face charges.

Imagine if he had shot her in the same scenario. Would everyone debating this flip sides?

[Sgt 127]

1 minute ago, Wyzz Kydd said:

I think this is probably the best case scenario for her, no bad intent, but a colossal mistake. If it turns out that this, or something close to it, is what happened she should face charges.

Imagine if he had shot her in the same scenario. Would everyone debating this flip sides?

Unless he just flat out, in a drunken or crack induced state, jerked the door open and physically attacked her, she, deservedly, is in deep ****. 

I don’t look at him and see violent thug written all over him. Quite the opposite. 

[SevenSixtyTwo]

9 hours ago, PATCHMAN said:

I get that this young man is dead prematurely and tragically. And I also understand that many people like to react emotionally, especially if they have an existing bias against LE.  That's par for the course. 

But I personally would like to understand what happened, step-by-step.  If this or a similar event had happened to a non-LEO, I'd still want to know what happened.  Not react emotionally but to understand what happened and possibly learn something.       

If you're referencing my post above, I'm not emotional about it. We've been partying at the sister in law's house all day. Just stating a fact. I'm very pro LE. I wouldn't think any differently if she were a waitress at Waffle House. But nice attempt at trying to paint me as biased against LE. That's very manipulative of you but 100% wrong.

What happened is someone went to the wrong apartment and shot the resident who lives there. Oops is not an excuse.

[Silentpoet]

She may very possibly be drunk or incompetent but I don't think there is enough evidence at this point to state she is corrupt or dirty.  A young man lost his life and this is without a doubt a tragedy. But not being a party to all the facts we cannot state the why behind that at this point.  We can make excuses all we want or theorize, but it won't bring him back.  At this point I am leaning towards it being at the very least a manslaughter charge based on what little I know from the news articles.  Sleepy or drunk is no excuse.  I've been both and I've never shot anybody.  But there for the grace of God go I. 

[willie-pete]

https://www.star-telegram.com/latest-news/article218101230.html

 

"An attorney says a new witness and video footage has emerged in the shooting death of 26-year-old Botham Shem Jean at the hands of an off-duty Dallas police officer who is believed to have entered the wrong apartment on Thursday night."

Following Merritt’s meeting with the district attorney, he decided against releasing the new evidence he believes will lead to Guyger’s arrest.

“Family attorneys brought forward a witness and video evidence, not of the shooting itself,” Merritt said. “The narrative that is being pushed by DPD is challenged by the evidence that was brought up.”

 

 

It keeps getting curiouser and curiouser.

[willie-pete]

I do note that the jackals like Ben Crump are circling..

 

I don't give her as much of a chance as a snowball in Hell.

 

EDIT; Just arrested

Edited September 10, 2018 by willie-pete

[ASH]

video evidence .  im sooo happy  cams are everywhere nowadays  to catch people  / think about  beginning of time  til recent  how many crimes  were not guilty  or guilty   only on a guess or hunch  . 

[willie-pete]

31 minutes ago, ASH said:

video evidence .  im sooo happy  cams are everywhere nowadays  to catch people  / think about  beginning of time  til recent  how many crimes  were not guilty  or guilty   only on a guess or hunch  . 

Yep, it must have been pretty damning evidence for them to go ahead and arrest her right after the news conference.

Time will tell.

[tadbart]

11 hours ago, Sgt 127 said:

There’s a scenario that could  have occurred that would explain her reaction. 

She keeps trying to open the door. Can’t figure out why “her” apartment is locked. 

He hears someone messing with “his” door.  He thinks someone is trying to break into his apartment  

He runs over to the door and jerks it open with a “who the F are you?”  Maybe even with a bat or something in his hand  

She already thinks something is up. She startled and shoots him thinking the “burglar” of “her” apartment is attacking her. 

He seemed like a really decent guy. There is no way I believe he would have intentionally attacked a Police Officer. 

None of this should have happened. It’s on her. No way around it. Just trying to figure out how it went to deadly force that fast. 

I'm truly afraid that this is what will come out of the investigation. What a horrible situation for all involved. That she called 911, is a credit to her. Pretty sure that tape will play a crucial role in her defense. Unfortunately, she will likely be found negligent (manslaughter charge?) and be out of a career, and maybe her freedom for a while. On the other hand, a life full of promise was snuffed out too soon, a sister lost her brother, a mother lost her son. Did DPD contribute to her fatigue and negligence? Giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, this one is a true tragedy.

[Al Czervik]

This just reinforces "Never talk to the Po-lice!"   ?

[Andyd]

Yesterday night she was arrested on manslaughter charges and booked into Kaufmann county jail to be later released on $300,000 bail. It was just given on the Dallas TV Fox4 news that she was in uniform when she shot the victim. According to DPD policy she acted as a private citizen as an off-duty officer.

Quote

H. Policy Restrictions - The restrictions of this policy shall not apply if an off-duty officer acts within the provisions of current state statutes to protect the employee's personal property. In this case the officer is acting as a private citizen.

http://www.dallaspolice.net/reports/Shared Documents/General-Order-906.pdf

*** I wanted to add that the lifting of policy restrictions is to give police officers the same rights to protect their personal property that Texas gives to individuals. DPD policy is restricting the use of deadly force beyond that of the ordinary citizen. Texas Penal Codes 9.41 and 9.42 together define when someone may use deadly force in defense of property (either land, or tangible personal property). According to penal code 9.42, her lawyers can bring up a lot of arguments in her defense since she acted as a civilian after nightfall.

 

There was a case about twenty years ago where a man who was delinquent on his car payments shot the repossessor with a 30/30 at night who was in  the car already and wanted to drive off. The case was thrown out because of 9.42.

 

https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/texas/tx-codes/texas_penal_code_9-42

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Andyd

[willie-pete]

Well, this, if true, doesn't bode well for her.

 

https://abc7chicago.com/dallas-officer-charged-in-shooting-death-parked-on-wrong-floor-mayor-says/4199894/

 

" Rawlings said Sunday that Guyger had parked on the wrong floor of the building's parking garage. "