Police cop who shot man in own apartment charged

[ASH]

charged with murder ,  https://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-dallas-officer-indicted-20181130-story.html

[KWalrad]

Of course she was. Moron residents would have burned this city to the ground had she not been.

It'll be interesting to hear the facts of the case come out in court.

[PATCHMAN]

Riots postponed.  Penny wise, pound foolish.     

[tadbart]

No way she will get convicted of murder. Manslaughter, they have a case. Like Patch says- Riots POSTPONED.

[steve4102]

9 minutes ago, tadbart said:

No way she will get convicted of murder. Manslaughter, they have a case. Like Patch says- Riots POSTPONED.

Quote

For a charge of murder, prosecutors have to prove without a reasonable doubt that Guyger intended to kill Jean.

No way she will get convicted of murder.

 

Don't be to sure.

Texas Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 19
Texas Penal Code - PENAL § 19.02. Murder


(b) A person commits an offense if he:

(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;

(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual;  or

(3) commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission
or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to 
human life that causes the death of an individual.
 

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.19.htm

[tadbart]

"without a reasonable doubt"

 

should be interesting. all her lawyer has to do is make the jury wonder if she thought she was entering her own apartment.

[gwalchmai]

I'm trying to understand how I could enter the apartment above mine and not realize I was in the wrong unit. There was probably a number on the door, and the furnishings had to be different. She then purportedly entered to investigate (why not call for backup?), and still didn't notice she was in the wrong apartment. That's hard for me to believe.

[steve4102]

20 minutes ago, gwalchmai said:

I'm trying to understand how I could enter the apartment above mine and not realize I was in the wrong unit. There was probably a number on the door, and the furnishings had to be different. She then purportedly entered to investigate (why not call for backup?), and still didn't notice she was in the wrong apartment. That's hard for me to believe.

The jury might come to the same "verdict".

[gwalchmai]

If a cop with a drawn gun tells me to freeze, even if I'm shaving in my own bathroom, I'm going to freeze. I MAY say something like "How can I make you feel more comfortable, Officer? Got any tickets to the ball? Would you care for a beverage?"

[blatant generalization]Why do black people have such a tendency to argue with cops?[/bg]

[Paul53]

Something is missing from the information given. Let's pick it up from entering the wrong apartment on the wrong floor, didn't realize it. She's disoriented before she opens the door, then finds a strange person in her apartment.

 

Why is she disoriented? She's tired after work, we all have some stress in our lives.  QUESTION; on the way home did she stop to have a few too many? Who hasn't? Someone comfortably numb, goes home finds a stranger in their apartment when they expected to flop into bed. The stranger is a threat, adrenaline and survival take over along with tunnel vision. Bang.

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Paul53

[Mike]

With the information known at this time, I am guessing there will be 2 mistrials/hung juries before she walks. 

 

.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Mike

[Cougar_ml]

The only real thing the trial is here to determine is the severity of punishment, and if the prosecutor can convince a jury whether it fits the definition of murder, as opposed to manslaughter.

If they had gone for manslaughter, I think it's a pretty open and shut case.  Since they are going to try for murder, I think it's a little bit of a stretch, and will take some convincing for a jury to agree with it.  

 

The grand jury decided on Murder instead of manslaughter, so if the trial fails to get a guilty verdict, and rioting occurs, then it's on them.  I don't know if there would be a riot if the charges were manslaughter instead, but as I said before, it would probably be a pretty short trial if they went that route.

 

13 hours ago, Paul53 said:

Something is missing from the information given. Let's pick it up from entering the wrong apartment on the wrong floor, didn't realize it. She's disoriented before she opens the door, then finds a strange person in her apartment.

 

Why is she disoriented? She's tired after work, we all have some stress in our lives.  QUESTION; on the way home did she stop to have a few too many? Who hasn't? Someone comfortably numb, goes home finds a stranger in their apartment when they expected to flop into bed. The stranger is a threat, adrenaline and survival take over along with tunnel vision. Bang.

 

If she had been drinking while in uniform I'm pretty sure it would have been all over the news.  

As for stopping on the way home and having a few too many, there are lots of people who have never done so, and if she had I'd be very comfortable with a murder charge instead of manslaughter, as drinking while in uniform should be a compounding factor when making charges, not an extenuating one. 

[Andyd]

On 12/1/2018 at 7:31 AM, steve4102 said:

No way she will get convicted of murder.

 

Don't be to sure.

Texas Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 19
Texas Penal Code - PENAL § 19.02. Murder


(b) A person commits an offense if he:

(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;

(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual;  or

(3) commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission
or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to 
human life that causes the death of an individual.
 

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.19.htm

The way this is misrepresented, there would also be no right to self-defense, since one intentionally uses a gun for defense, not just accidentally.

 

To charge her with murder means actually to give her a very, very big chance to be acquitted of the murder charge and not be charged under double jeopardy in criminal court. I think that she did wrong, without any doubt in my mind, but it wasn't murder. It was manslaughter since she acted in the belief that she was right. I have heard from several friends in Dallas, that they had been in front of the wrong apartment doors.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Andyd

[steve4102]

31 minutes ago, Andyd said:

The way this is misrepresented, there would also be no right to self-defense, since one intentionally uses a gun for defense, not just accidentally.

 

To charge her with murder means actually to give her a very, very big chance to be acquitted of the murder charge and not be charged under double jeopardy in criminal court. I think that she did wrong, without any doubt in my mind, but it wasn't murder. It was manslaughter since she acted in the belief that she was right. I have heard from several friends in Dallas, that they had been in front of the wrong apartment doors.

 

 

Not exactly.

Killing someone in Self Defense is still killing someone and in all 50 states it is still a Homicide.

It is however (if one can prove their case) "Justifiable Homicide".

As far as I know from the "media" she has not claimed Self Defense.  

[Silentpoet]

I think the prosecutor wants to make a show of it and give the impression that she was tried for the most serious crime, but doesn't really want a conviction.  That is why they are going for the murder charge instead of manslaughter.

[Cougar_ml]

https://murphylawoffice.org/john-murphy-law-office-blog/77-what-s-the-difference-between-homicide-murder-and-manslaughter.html

Homicide is simply the killing of one person by another.  It may or may not be illegal.  Soldiers in battle commit homicide without committing a crime.  Citizens kill intruders without committing a crime.  So, what is it that separates a legal homicide from an illegal murder?  And, what makes one killing a murder and another a manslaughter?

Murder is a homicide committed with “malice aforethought.”  That doesn’t mean it is a malicious killing.  Malice aforethought is the common law way of saying that it is an unjustified killing.  And, for a killing to be a murder, there typically has to be either an intent to kill, or, at minimum, conduct so reckless that it is punishable as murder. 

Murder usually is broken down into degrees.  First degree murder punishes premeditated killings, the killing of especially vulnerable people (such as children), and unintended killings done while intentionally committing another serious felony.  This last kind of first degree murder is called felony murder.

 

Manslaughter is typically treated as a much less severe crime than murder.  Manslaughter can be broken up into degrees, or categorized as voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of another person under extreme provocation or while under the heat of passion.  Typically, it does not require an intent to kill, but rather than the intent to do something else.  Felony manslaughter occurs when a person participates in a crime that isn’t listed in the felony murder statute (which usually includes the most dangerous kinds of felonies), but somehow someone dies during the crime.  Involuntary manslaughter usually involves acts of negligence or recklessness that lead to another person’s death.  Vehicular homicide or vehicular manslaughter – causing a person’s death through driving while intoxicated – can be charged on its own or as part of involuntary manslaughter, depending on the laws of a particular state. 

 

Both murder and manslaughter are types of homicide, but different degrees of severity based upon factors like intent and premeditation.  

I think it will be a tough sell to try to convince a jury that her intent was to walk into an apartment and kill the occupant.  She was tired from a long shift, and reacted badly when she made a mistake on where she parked and what apartment she entered.  

As I said before, I think she is guilty beyond any doubt of manslaughter, but murder is going to be a stretch.

 

 

[AerynSun2]

I think it will come out that the woman had romantic interests in the man she killed. 

[Sgt 127]

It would be harder to prove criminally negligent homicide. (Manslaughter).  As a matter of fact, it was not negligent and, that was the wrong charge.  

Had she blindly fired through the door and killed him, that would be reckless and negligent.  She did not  

When she fired her weapon, She meant to shoot him. And, she did. 

Thats murder. 

And, the perfect defense for murder is, self defense. 

She made several mistakes that led up to the shooting. Those could be seen as reckless and negligent. 

But, those are not what she is charged with. 

Based upon her culpable mental state, she was in her apartment, she believed it was being burglarized and, a large male was approaching her, in her own hallway and (possibly) refusing orders to stop. 

In any other sceanario, this would be justified use of deadly force to protect her own life. 

By charging her with murder, which is the correct charge, the burden of proof lies with the state to prove that she should not have believed her life was in danger.  That’s going to be extremely difficult. 

She made numerous mistakes of fact leading to the situation. 

If the DA had been smart, they would have offered her a plea deal for a lesser charge. Get it over with, claim they got a conviction, pay the family several million and, move on. (Assuming her lawyer let her take the deal). 

This was a very tragic mistake. But there was no criminal intent on her part.  And, her claim of self defense, at the moment she fired, is valid. 

I do not know of another case quite like this.  This is a very unusual series of events that led to the death of a truly innocent man. Her being a Police Officer, him being black, male, female etc have absolutely nothing to do with the case.  There is no law on the books to find someone guilty of a “justified” self defense murder.

I too feel she’s “guilty” of something...

But, according to the actual law, as written, she may not be. 

[Scotsman]

She's female, and a cop, no way she'll be convicted.