E-Bay Rant

[Moshe]

Okay, so I am in a nostalgic mood.  I have a Harbor Freight Flag pole coming so I have place to put my American Flag and Texas flag under it.  That will give me space for those flags to be removed from my Porch for a USBP flag and a DHS flag.  I have an ESTY Guy who made me a USBP green metal piece I have on the wall where the USBP flag will be.  He is working on attempting to remodel the classic soldier cut out for and EOW for the guys I lost while serving.  So, being in a nostalgic mood I start digging through E-bay and find an assisted knife for next to nothing with the USBP decal like I had on my uniform.  I just go scrolling through, and here is where the rant begins:

For those who are not familiar with the Newton-Azrak , someone is selling a set.  These are awarded for extreme acts of heroism.  My partner and I were nominated one year but another team from another sector was given the award.  The equivalent is like the Congressional Medal of Honor.  You just don't sell that online.  So, when I saw that I saw red.  It is the equivalent of stolen valor.

[Silentpoet]

It should be fairly easy to track down the agents awarded them and if possible return the knife.

[Moshe]

The knife is immaterial and unrelated.  It is an actual ribbon you would pin to your uniform.  Regardless of your rank, BPA, SBPA, it commands respect the same way a Congressional Medal of Honor does.  The Newton-Azrak award was originally named after two fallen USBP Agents who lost their lives in the line of duty going above and beyond.  Very few of these, like the Congressional Medal of Honor are awarded to Agents who selflessly risked their lives for others and are typically awarded posthumously.  Those who live to wear it, are about as rare as those who live to get a Congressional Medal of Honor.  It carries nearly the same weight, and it is awarded from D.C. and bestowed the widow or to the guys that went through it and survived.  My partner and I received commendations of the then Chief of the entire United States Border Patrol, and were nominated.  I am not upset we didn't receive the award.  Whomever was chosen over us must have done something even crazier and above and beyond the call of duty.  My anger is some schmuck thinking they can hawk a set online so someone can put in on their wall and make a claim that they are not worthy of.  To me, it is equivalent of someone selling a Congressional Medal of Honor and wearing it around without earning it.  Both, IMHO, stolen valor.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Moshe

[janice6]

Quote

 

Sometimes when we pass on and our "stuff" gets passed along over time, it's value fades along with some of the memories.  It's possible that the person passed, then his wife did too.  When their stuff went to others they may have no idea what the significance of it is to someone who knows.  Then things turn into mementoes like a knife with an emblem or a pretty ribbon that no one knows the meaning of and soon it's taking up space...………………….

 

I see this at my own home.  My wife is forgetting things now, and some of the stuff I held or bought for her because of a special moment or feeling, are losing their significance to her.  And she just sees them as "stuff" for which she has no recollection or attachment to anymore.  It hurts sometimes, but that's the way life goes.

Edited June 19, 2019 by janice6

[Rizzo]

Congressional Medal of Honor.

 

Just wanted to say it one more time, to make it an even 6 times. Odd numbers piss me off. ?

[minervadoe]

   We had a house keepers husband rip off my Dad's Bronze star which was at my grandfather's house.       Yeah, whoever has it did not earn it.  It's a pisser for sure.  

 

[KWalrad]

3 hours ago, Moshe said:

Okay, so I am in a nostalgic mood.  I have a Harbor Freight Flag pole coming so I have place to put my American Flag and Texas flag under it.  That will give me space for those flags to be removed from my Porch for a USBP flag and a DHS flag.  I have an ESTY Guy who made me a USBP green metal piece I have on the wall where the USBP flag will be.  He is working on attempting to remodel the classic soldier cut out for and EOW for the guys I lost while serving.  So, being in a nostalgic mood I start digging through E-bay and find an assisted knife for next to nothing with the USBP decal like I had on my uniform.  I just go scrolling through, and here is where the rant begins:

For those who are not familiar with the Newton-Azrak , someone is selling a set.  These are awarded for extreme acts of heroism.  My partner and I were nominated one year but another team from another sector was given the award.  The equivalent is like the Congressional Medal of Honor.  You just don't sell that online.  So, when I saw that I saw red.  It is the equivalent of stolen valor.

You going to buy it or not?

If you actually cared so much, you'd purchase it and promptly and properly dispose of it in the name of "keeping it from being used as 'stolen valor''.

But we understand. It's much easier to go on line and piss and moan with fake outrage. 

.Rock on SuperTrooper. Rock on.

[Cougar_ml]

5 hours ago, KWalrad said:

You going to buy it or not?

If you actually cared so much, you'd purchase it and promptly and properly dispose of it in the name of "keeping it from being used as 'stolen valor''.

But we understand. It's much easier to go on line and piss and moan with fake outrage. 

.Rock on SuperTrooper. Rock on.

 

If it's a genuine set that was issued to an agent, then yes, someone needs to take it out of circulation.

If it's not a set that was presented to an agent/family, then all you are doing is giving money to a guy with obviously little regard for the importance of this set/medal, and even encouraging him to sell more of them.  Providing profit to those who are doing something that lacks ethics/moral character isn't the best way to encourage them to stop their behavior.

 

We all have things that make us upset, and need to vent occasionally about them, insulting people who are worked up about something that has personal importance to them isn't necessarily the nicest way to handle them.  

 

So what are his options about it really?

Buy it and dispose of it, the seller will just assemble another set through whatever sources they made this one.  End result, monetary gain to scumbag seller, no downside to seller.

Complain to ebay, get a response saying that it doesn't violate ebay policy, and go pound sand.  No downside to seller.

Complain to seller about how they are diminishing the meaning of what they are selling.  Seller won't be guilted into removing sale because they obviously don't care in the first place.  At worst, seller feels slightly bad, but tells person complaining to go pound sand or ignore them.

Complain online on forum where there are many like minded people.  Relieves some stress/frustration about it and gets some support from like minded individuals.  End result, he feels better that the entire world hasn't turned to scumbags like the seller, but no downside to seller.

[Moshe]

15 hours ago, KWalrad said:

You going to buy it or not?

If you actually cared so much, you'd purchase it and promptly and properly dispose of it in the name of "keeping it from being used as 'stolen valor''.

But we understand. It's much easier to go on line and piss and moan with fake outrage. 

.Rock on SuperTrooper. Rock on.

No,  I refuse to obtain duplicitously what I have not earned.  There is nothing fake about my outrage.  There is also nothing cute about your post.

[Moshe]

9 hours ago, Cougar_ml said:

 

If it's a genuine set that was issued to an agent, then yes, someone needs to take it out of circulation.

If it's not a set that was presented to an agent/family, then all you are doing is giving money to a guy with obviously little regard for the importance of this set/medal, and even encouraging him to sell more of them.  Providing profit to those who are doing something that lacks ethics/moral character isn't the best way to encourage them to stop their behavior.

 

We all have things that make us upset, and need to vent occasionally about them, insulting people who are worked up about something that has personal importance to them isn't necessarily the nicest way to handle them.  

 

So what are his options about it really?

Buy it and dispose of it, the seller will just assemble another set through whatever sources they made this one.  End result, monetary gain to scumbag seller, no downside to seller.

Complain to ebay, get a response saying that it doesn't violate ebay policy, and go pound sand.  No downside to seller.

Complain to seller about how they are diminishing the meaning of what they are selling.  Seller won't be guilted into removing sale because they obviously don't care in the first place.  At worst, seller feels slightly bad, but tells person complaining to go pound sand or ignore them.

Complain online on forum where there are many like minded people.  Relieves some stress/frustration about it and gets some support from like minded individuals.  End result, he feels better that the entire world hasn't turned to scumbags like the seller, but no downside to seller.

Can you imagine the Congressional Medal of Honor being auctioned off, so some never served punk can commit stolen valor?  It is the same sort of  thing.  The trouble with ebay, as I don't really use it, but my wife has, they don't really crack down on anyone.

[Rizzo]

Why does it have to be stolen valor? It’s probably people who collect military medals. There’s a guy on Glockta- uh THE OTHER SITE who does; got a pretty nice collection. No “stolen valor” there, he’s a genuine military history buff. I can’t think who’d want to collect Border Patrol crap, but a passion for every weirdo, I guess. ?

And I don’t think anyone is stupid enough to buy a Newton-Azrak off ebay and go STOLEN VALOR-ing all over the place, making up outlandish stories of being this badass Border Patrol Chuck-Norris meets-Rambo type and talking about helicopter crashes and such.

Oh, wait.... *ahem*

Edited June 20, 2019 by Rizzo

[SC Tiger]

2 hours ago, Moshe said:

No,  I refuse to obtain duplicitously what I have not earned.  There is nothing fake about my outrage.  There is also nothing cute about your post.

I'm staying out of the pissing contest that this has become.

But I will say that if you did purchase it, I cannot see how it would be considered "duplicitous" or "stolen valor" or anything of that matter.  Just if you show it to someone, be clear that it was purchased and why (get it out of circulation) and don't claim it as your own reward.

Would be like me with my father's army medals.  If I happened to have them around I may show them to someone, but I would never claim that I had earned them.  They are someone else's.

[Moshe]

1 hour ago, Rizzo said:

Why does it have to be stolen valor? It’s probably people who collect military medals. There’s a guy on Glockta- uh THE OTHER SITE who does; got a pretty nice collection. No “stolen valor” there, he’s a genuine military history buff. I can’t think who’d want to collect Border Patrol crap, but a passion for every weirdo, I guess. ?

And I don’t think anyone is stupid enough to buy a Newton-Azrak off ebay and go STOLEN VALOR-ing all over the place, making up outlandish stories of being this badass Border Patrol Chuck-Norris meets-Rambo type and talking about helicopter crashes and such.

Oh, wait.... *ahem*

Because they wear it and pretend they earned it.  Thus stolen valor.  Would you be okay with someone buying a Congressional Medal of Honor, and then claimed they were a SEAL or some bullshit.  I would be seriously pissed.  I like the channel where a retired SEAL calls out people who claim they were.  The field is rife with fakes, and it is unacceptable.  I have never, and will never claim to be something I was not.  

[KWalrad]

18 hours ago, Cougar_ml said:

 

If it's a genuine set that was issued to an agent, then yes, someone needs to take it out of circulation.

If it's not a set that was presented to an agent/family, then all you are doing is giving money to a guy with obviously little regard for the importance of this set/medal, and even encouraging him to sell more of them.  Providing profit to those who are doing something that lacks ethics/moral character isn't the best way to encourage them to stop their behavior.

 

We all have things that make us upset, and need to vent occasionally about them, insulting people who are worked up about something that has personal importance to them isn't necessarily the nicest way to handle them.  

 

So what are his options about it really?

Buy it and dispose of it, the seller will just assemble another set through whatever sources they made this one.  End result, monetary gain to scumbag seller, no downside to seller.

Complain to ebay, get a response saying that it doesn't violate ebay policy, and go pound sand.  No downside to seller.

Complain to seller about how they are diminishing the meaning of what they are selling.  Seller won't be guilted into removing sale because they obviously don't care in the first place.  At worst, seller feels slightly bad, but tells person complaining to go pound sand or ignore them.

Complain online on forum where there are many like minded people.  Relieves some stress/frustration about it and gets some support from like minded individuals.  End result, he feels better that the entire world hasn't turned to scumbags like the seller, but no downside to seller.

Valid points. Thank you for the perspective.

[KWalrad]

On 6/20/2019 at 11:08 AM, Moshe said:

No,  I refuse to obtain duplicitously what I have not earned.  There is nothing fake about my outrage.  There is also nothing cute about your post.

There was no attempt made at being "cute".

Thanks for playing. Shine on you crazy diamond.

[OwlsNest465]

OK, but if they aren't wearing it.. just collecting it.. what's the issue? 

You can't know the intention of the individual buying the ribbon.

[Cougar_ml]

3 hours ago, OwlsNest465 said:

OK, but if they aren't wearing it.. just collecting it.. what's the issue? 

You can't know the intention of the individual buying the ribbon.

If a ribbon/medal has been earned, it is presented to the individual/family at no charge.

If one gets lots you can put in a request and they'll give you a new one. 

If there is some valid reason for a person to have one in their possession, then they can make a request through the proper channels and receive one.

I'm sure there are some legitimate reasons for a person that hasn't earned one or had one presented to the family to be in possession of some of these ribbons or medals, but I don't know what they might be.

 

I think in this case it wasn't just the ribbon, but the fact that it was being sold off as a complete presentation of everything that would go along with the ribbon to someone that earned it in the line of duty.  

[Moshe]

9 hours ago, OwlsNest465 said:

OK, but if they aren't wearing it.. just collecting it.. what's the issue? 

You can't know the intention of the individual buying the ribbon.

 

5 hours ago, Cougar_ml said:

If a ribbon/medal has been earned, it is presented to the individual/family at no charge.

If one gets lots you can put in a request and they'll give you a new one. 

If there is some valid reason for a person to have one in their possession, then they can make a request through the proper channels and receive one.

I'm sure there are some legitimate reasons for a person that hasn't earned one or had one presented to the family to be in possession of some of these ribbons or medals, but I don't know what they might be.

 

I think in this case it wasn't just the ribbon, but the fact that it was being sold off as a complete presentation of everything that would go along with the ribbon to someone that earned it in the line of duty.  

We did our best to shut them down, but you know e-bay.  They were selling them and soliciting others.   The only reason to purchase it, is for nefarious reasons, e.g. stolen valor.

[OwlsNest465]

That’s just false.

People collect things.



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[Cougar_ml]

11 minutes ago, OwlsNest465 said:

That’s just false.

People collect things.



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Some things were not meant to be collected by those that did not earn them.  

Think of being presented with a trophy for being the MVP during a sports year, then finding out everyone else has the trophy too because they bought it on ebay.  Kind of diminishes the significance of receiving it.

[OwlsNest465]

It doesn’t diminish anything.

If it’s your accomplishment cool, the item has more significance than if you’re a collector.

If I held the medal due to an act of heroism, it wouldn’t bother me in the least if a collector procured one.

In fact, it wouldn’t bother me if someone bought one and tried to claim they earned it... because I know the truth, and so does the imposter.


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[Moshe]

Okay, let me put it to you straight.  The USBP is a paramilitary organization.  I still own my dress uniform.  Say, a lot of churches, synagogues honor uniform day.  Some ******* shows up with the Newton-Azrak  ward ribbon on their uniform.  They never earned it, in fact they were the equivalent of the Peterson coward in Florida.  Now, to put it in terms some of you can understand, the have a uniform day, and you get a guy who buys a Congressional of Honor online and tells everyone he earned it, when he was dishonorably discharged and never saw anything meritorious career?  That would cool with you guys too?  How about if I go out and buy a BORTAC pin, when I was never in BORTAC and sing my praises of being in the Middle East and the Jungles of Colombia?  Cool or not cool, considering these guys are trained very much like SEALs, I would be stealing their glory.  My point is, I am really ******* pissed off with people claiming false valor.

[Cubdriver]

What makes you so absolutely 100% beyond-any-doubt certain that anyone who buys it is going to do such a thing?  You seem unwilling to consider any other possibilities.

-Pat

[OwlsNest465]

1 minute ago, Cubdriver said:

What makes you so absolutely 100% beyond-any-doubt certain that anyone who buys it is going to do such a thing?  You seem unwilling to consider any other possibilities.

-Pat

That's the point I'm making and I'm glad someone else gets it, but some people just want something to be outraged about.  

[Rizzo]

So, assuming the OP’s premise that collectors vanished overnight, what’s the solution? SOMEthing should be done about this valor-thievery, which is apparently more rampant and widespread than I thought; should perhaps the government step in and impose regulations and restrictions on ebay? ?

If it saves just one act of valor.....