My WW1 Rifles

[DrB]

Posted these in the general forum but thought they should probably go here.

My Remington 03 and my 1917 Remington Enfield.  The 03 is still in the cosmoline..

Dave..

 

[Historian]

This is among the few firearms I lust for.

[Collim1]

Oh how I regret passing on both of those rifles years ago when they available and affordable. 

I could just kick myself. 

I like both of yours. And the bayonet. Man do I love some bayonets. 

[DrB]

I bought those 2 rifles years ago.  Someday I will clean the cosmoline off the 03.  I have one 03 cleaned up so this one waits. I would hate to be on the otherside of the bayonet on the Enfield.  Brave men to go over the top with fixed bayonets.

We all can kick ourselves for the rifles and pistols we passed on.  I passed on some broomhandle mausers dirt cheap years ago.  Still kicking myself because at the time thought they were overpriced....

[Borg warner]

I had a Longbranch No. 4 Mk I Smelly that came in cosmoline and cheesecloth. Pretty nice rifle but it wasn't exceptionally accurate. My brother collects them and he's fount that that  some have tighter bores than others and the ones with the tightest cores are generally the most accurate. The way he gauges the barrels is by potting a.338 spritzer bullet in the muzzle end and seeing how far it will go into the barrel compared to other 303 Smelly's that he owns.

I traded the rifle  to my brother for an 1891 Argentine Mauser and he  still has the long branch but I no longer have the Argentine. my last r3emaining WWI rifle is an 1995 Hungarian Steyr straight pull carbine that's been arsenal reconditioned and I have bayonet for it. I had an Eddystone 1917 Enfield but it had been sporterized. The one I rally wanted was a P-14 Enfield in .303 British caliber

[OldCop71]

A GEW98 that has been Bubba'd, from 1917, and a Turk Mauser 93 made in 1896.

[DrB]

I remember looking in Woolworth's when they had all kinds in barrels but I was too young to buy.  I need my time machine.

Dave..

[DrB]

On 11/6/2018 at 7:10 PM, OldCop71 said:

Turk Mauser 93 made in 1896.

What caliber is that rifle?  Thanks..

Dave..

[Borg warner]

27 minutes ago, DrB said:

What caliber is that rifle?  Thanks..

Dave..

Most likely it is 8mm Mauser. but the 1893's were originally chambered in 7mm Mauser because the 8mm Mauser was not adopted until 1903. However, the Turks converted all the original 7mm Mausers to 8mm JS in the 1930's

[DrB]

8 minutes ago, Borg warner said:

Most likely it is 8mm Mauser. but the 1893's were originally chambered in 7mm Mauser because the 8mm Mauser was not adopted until 1903. However, the Turks converted all the original 7mm Mausers to 8mm JS in the 1930's

Thanks much..

Dave..

[norton]

Had this one out to the range a couple of weeks ago.   Model 1917  built in August 1918.  Unlikely to have seen service in WW1.  My Dad used an Enfield-that's how he always referred to it- to qualify during OCS WW2. 

[DrB]

51 minutes ago, norton said:

Had this one out to the range a couple of weeks ago.   Model 1917  built in August 1918.  Unlikely to have seen service in WW1.  My Dad used an Enfield-that's how he always referred to it- to qualify during OCS WW2. 

What Make is that?  Nice rifle.

Dave..

[norton]

Eddystone. 

[Borg warner]

14 hours ago, norton said:

Eddystone. 

Eddystones were the most common. Eddystone made 1,181,908 rifles – more than the production of Remington (545,541 rifles) and Winchester (465,980 rifles) combined.

Eddystone was a subsidiary of Remington and the Eddystone arsenal was located at the former  Baldwin Locomotive Works in Eddystone, Pennsylvania.

[DrB]

Did some of the Eddystones have some problems?  Seems I can remember something about receiver rings cracking or some such when trying to change out a barrel.  I could be wrong though.

Dave..

[Borg warner]

22 minutes ago, DrB said:

Did some of the Eddystones have some problems?  Seems I can remember something about receiver rings cracking or some such when trying to change out a barrel.  I could be wrong though.

Dave..

No, that's right, The problem with the Eddystones was that their barrels were tightened with hydraulic machinery and were hard to remove unless you made relief cuts on the barrel that you were removing. Knowledgeable gunsmiths knew all the tricks in removing the barrels so as to avoid damaging the receivers.

[DrB]

13 minutes ago, Borg warner said:

No, that's right, The problem with the Eddystones was that their barrels were tightened with hydraulic machinery and were hard to remove unless you made relief cuts on the barrel that you were removing. Knowledgeable gunsmiths knew all the tricks in removing the barrels so as to avoid damaging the receivers.

Did the others have any problems that you know of?

Dave..

[Borg warner]

2 hours ago, DrB said:

Did the others have any problems that you know of?

Dave..

Nope. Just the Eddystones and that wasn't really a problem when the rifles were in service. It was only a problem when people wanted to rebarrel them and didn't know whay they were doing. This problem was not due to any inherent problem with the receivers as it was with the '03 Springfields  (Low numbered receivers with serial numbers below 800,000 made at Springfield Armory, and below 286,506 made at Rock Island Arsenal)

Edited November 17, 2018 by Borg warner

[DrB]

12 hours ago, Borg warner said:

Nope. Just the Eddystones and that wasn't really a problem when the rifles were in service. It was only a problem when people wanted to rebarrel them and didn't know whay they were doing. This problem was not due to any inherent problem with the receivers as it was with the '03 Springfields  (Low numbered receivers with serial numbers below 800,000 made at Springfield Armory, and below 286,506 made at Rock Island Arsenal)

Thanks much, now you got me wondering about my 03's.  I think they are high numbered but now am sitting here scratching my head.  Won't be satisfied till I go look.

You know anything about Lee-Fields? I have a few I bought years ago when they were cheap.  I need to get back up to speed on these also.

Dave..

[Borg warner]

6 hours ago, DrB said:

Thanks much, now you got me wondering about my 03's.  I think they are high numbered but now am sitting here scratching my head.  Won't be satisfied till I go look.

You know anything about Lee-Fields? I have a few I bought years ago when they were cheap.  I need to get back up to speed on these also.

Dave..

Lee Enfields? otherwise known as SMLE's or "Smelly's? Great rifles. and in my personal opinion the greatest bolt action battle rifles of the 20th century for their ammo capacity, durability and rapidity of fire. I'm not an expert or  collector but I've had some experience with them and my brother has had even more experience with them. The basic differences in the rifles made over the years is that the earlier No.1 Mk III* rifles had thinner more lightweight barrels  and a different front sight with the sight assembly being flush with and capping off the stock.

The No.4 Mk 1 had a heavier "floating barrel" that was independent of the forearm, allowing the barrel to expand and contract without contacting the forearm and interfering with the 'zero', the correlation between the alignment of the barrel and the sights. The floating barrel increased the accuracy of the rifle by allowing it to vibrate freely and consistently. The No.4 Mk 1 had the barrel and front sight sticking out pasty the stock and this makes it easy to tell at a glance a No.4 Mk 1 from a No.1 Mk III*

In 1942, a variation of the No.4 Mk 1 was made, the No.4 Mk 1*, with the bolt release catch replaced by a simpler notch on the bolt track of the rifle's receiver. It was produced only in North America, by Small Arms Limited at Long Branch in Canada and Stevens-Savage Firearms in the USA Other manufacturers of the SMLE's were Enfield Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield United Kingdom, Sparkbrook Royal Small Arms Factory Sparkbrook UK,  BSA Co The Birmingham Small Arms Company UK,  LSA Co London Small Arms Co. Ltd UK and Lithgow Small Arms Factory Australia.

Generally,  most, but not all SMLE rifles were not as accurate as Springfields, 1917's or Mausers,  and most people don't know why this is. But the reason that I've discovered is the difference in bore diameters due to the fact that the Brits allowed a variance in bore diameters because of the wear of the rifling tooling in these mass produced rifles.  My brother noticed that the rifles that the owned with the tightest bores shot the best so whenever he considered buying a new rifle he would use a 338 spritzer bullet that he had marked with a line showing how far it entered in to the bore of his most accurate rifle and only buy rifles with the tightest bores.

I think my favorite SMLE was the No 5 Mk I Jungle Carbine with a cut-down stock, a flash hider, and a "lightening-cut" receiver machined to remove all unnecessary metal, a reduced barrel length of 18.8 in and a torture device for a recoil pad which was the main reason for reports of inaccuracy or a "Wandering Zero" with these rifles. If I had one I'd put some kind of temporary soft rubber recoil pad on the gun and put the original hard rubber torture device in the safe. 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Borg warner

[DrB]

2 minutes ago, Borg warner said:

think my favorite SMLE was the No 5 Mk I Jungle Carbine

I have one of those, bought in the 70's.  I'll get it out sometime and post some pictures along with questions..

Great information.....  Thanks

[Valmet]

The 1917 is my all-time favorite milsurp. Sure it’s kinda awkward and heavy but reliable, strong, and has excellent sights. 

I have two (Eddystone and a Remington) with my favorite being a presentation rifle to the President of one of the PA RR companies that kept the Eddystone plant in steel during production. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Valmet

[Borg warner]

  Anyone ever hear of a Remington model 30?  It was basically a factory "sportsterized" version of the 1917 Enfield. It was produced between the two world Wars and was repaved by the Remington model 721 in 1948.

 
The Model 30 had a 24-inch barrel, and was available in .30-06 Springfield only (1921–1925)- S/N between 00001 and 30600. About 3000 units were manufactured.[4][9] A carbine version with a 20-inch barrel was produced from 1924 to 1925, also available only in .30-06 Springfield. Both of these models were replaced in 1926 by the upgraded Model 30 Express version.

 The Model 30 Express version was available in several configurations - The basic 30A with its 22-inch barrel, was offered in calibers .30-06 Springfield, .25 Rem, .30 Rem, .32 Rem, .35 Rem, 7mm Mauser, .257 Roberts. On these guns, the aperture receiver sight was omitted, and replaced with a more conventional rear sight mounted on the barrel. The rifles were also available in more expensive grades; The Deluxe or "Special" 30S which in 1930 became the Model 30SL, the 30SR with Redfield Optics sight, the 30SX, with a Lyman sight, and the 30SM with Marble-Goss aperture receiver sight.

These "Special" models were available with 22 or 24 inches barrel, selected stock, One variation the Model 30R Carbine was introduced in 1927 with a 20 inches barrel, and was available in .25 Rem, .30 Rem, .32 Rem, .35 Rem and 30-06 caliber. The Express 30 family and its variant were manufactured in number of approximately 22800 units, between 1926 and 1940. Serialization is from number 00001 to 30560.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation acquired some Model 30-S rifles chambered for .30-06 in response to the 1933 Kansas City Massacre.

The Model 30 is now a prized collectible when found in very good condition. This is especially true in calibers other than .30-06, which will command a significant premium over the basic Model 30 rifles.

[DrB]

4 hours ago, Borg warner said:

  Anyone ever hear of a Remington model 30?  It was basically a factory "sportsterized" version of the 1917 Enfield. It was produced between the two world Wars and was repaved by the Remington model 721 in 1948.

 
The Model 30 had a 24-inch barrel, and was available in .30-06 Springfield only (1921–1925)- S/N between 00001 and 30600. About 3000 units were manufactured.[4][9] A carbine version with a 20-inch barrel was produced from 1924 to 1925, also available only in .30-06 Springfield. Both of these models were replaced in 1926 by the upgraded Model 30 Express version.

 The Model 30 Express version was available in several configurations - The basic 30A with its 22-inch barrel, was offered in calibers .30-06 Springfield, .25 Rem, .30 Rem, .32 Rem, .35 Rem, 7mm Mauser, .257 Roberts. On these guns, the aperture receiver sight was omitted, and replaced with a more conventional rear sight mounted on the barrel. The rifles were also available in more expensive grades; The Deluxe or "Special" 30S which in 1930 became the Model 30SL, the 30SR with Redfield Optics sight, the 30SX, with a Lyman sight, and the 30SM with Marble-Goss aperture receiver sight.

These "Special" models were available with 22 or 24 inches barrel, selected stock, One variation the Model 30R Carbine was introduced in 1927 with a 20 inches barrel, and was available in .25 Rem, .30 Rem, .32 Rem, .35 Rem and 30-06 caliber. The Express 30 family and its variant were manufactured in number of approximately 22800 units, between 1926 and 1940. Serialization is from number 00001 to 30560.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation acquired some Model 30-S rifles chambered for .30-06 in response to the 1933 Kansas City Massacre.

The Model 30 is now a prized collectible when found in very good condition. This is especially true in calibers other than .30-06, which will command a significant premium over the basic Model 30 rifles.

Never heard of that...  Thanks....  Another rifle to lust after....

Dave..

[Borg warner]

3 minutes ago, DrB said:

Never heard of that...  Thanks....  Another rifle to lust after....

Dave..

I'd like to have one in 7mm Mauser caliber but I'd be tempted to re-chamber it for 280 Remington. Another gun I've always lusted for is a 1917 Remington that was re-barreled to 375 H&H  but only one that had been done by a gunsmith who did a good job of it. I've seen a few. I've also seen ones in 300 H&H, 300 Apex and even 300 Weatherby. The 1917 action is longer than a Mauser action and will accommodate full length cartridges such as the ones already mentioned and also the 8mm Rem magnum, the 416 Remington and even the 338-416 which can duplicate 338 Lapua ballistics.