Another Anti-Trump snowflake melts...

[crockett]

1 hour ago, Cougar_ml said:

https://realestate.findlaw.com/land-use-laws/trespassing-basics.html

Trespassing is a legal term that can refer to a wide variety of offenses against a person or against property. Trespassing as it relates to real estate law means entering onto land without consent of the landowner. There are both criminal and civil trespass laws. Criminal trespass law is enforced by police, sheriffs, or park rangers. Civil trespass requires that the landowner initiate a private enforcement action in court to collect any damages for which the trespasser may be responsible (regardless of whether a crime has been committed).

Intent and Knowledge Requirements

Traditionally, for either type of trespass -- criminal or civil -- some level of intent is required. Thus, the trespasser must not simply unwittingly traverse another's land but must knowingly go onto the property without permission. Knowledge may be inferred when the owner tells the trespasser not to go on the land, when the land is fenced, or when a "no trespassing" sign is posted. A trespasser would probably not be prosecuted if the land was open, the trespasser's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property, and the trespasser left immediately on request.

 

ETA: once you have been asked to leave you are trespassing.  It doesn't require the police to be involved or even notified for trespassing to occur, all it takes is being in a location where you have either been verbally or with signage notified that you do not have permission to be.  

 

Back in the day read up on this matter, a lot. It really depends on state laws and even local ordinances. A simple and random trespassing sign isn't enough in Florida, for example. And if the property is not fenced-in to a certain code, and if the signs are not properly worded, also by a code, all this means nothing legally.

If I want to legally prevent a person to enter my property and make him or her arrestable over any future offense, I have to send a "NOTICE OF TRESPASS WARNING" letter via Certified Registered Mail to the offender, or catch him, call the police, get him IDed, and have a LEO issue the warning. Which is often not feasible because the offender won't stick around long enough for police to arrive.

I have sent a few NOTICE OF TRESPASS WARNING letters over the years, usually to soliciting people who showed up repeatedly.

Edited December 30, 2018 by crockett

[Cougar_ml]

38 minutes ago, Collim1 said:

In my state the owner of the store would have to sign the warrants In order for prosecution for trespass to occurr. 

 

The police might escort the guy off guy off the property at a clerks request if the owner wasn’t on scene or couldn’t be reached by phone, but no arrest would occurrr based on a cashiers request. 

Yes, for prosecution of trespassing the police would need to be involved, but just for the definition of trespass, all that has to happen is being asked to leave by someone with the authority to do so.  

I think the difference we are having is I'm talking broadly about trespassing in general which is just not leaving when asked by legal representative of the property, and a lot of the comments are based on criminal trespass, which is having police escort you from a property for refusal to leave when asked and having charges pressed for failing to do so.

[Cougar_ml]

6 minutes ago, crockett said:

 

Back in the day read up on this matter, a lot. It really depends on state laws and even local ordinances. A simple and random trespassing sign isn't enough in Florida, for example. And if the property is not fenced-in to a certain code, and if the signs are not properly worded, also by a code, all this means nothing legally.

If I want to legally prevent a person to enter my property and make him or her arrestable over any future offense, I have to send a "NOTICE OF TRESPASS WARNING" letter via Certified Registered Mail to the offender, or catch him, call the police, get him IDed, and have a LEO issue the warning. Which is often not feasible because the offender won't stick around long enough for police to arrive.

I have sent a few NOTICE OF TRESPASS WARNING letters over the years, usually to soliciting people who showed up repeatedly.

yeah, that's one of the obnoxious things.  They are legally trespassing, but you can't actually do anything about it without a whole lot of paperwork and documentation.  

 

My uncle had a couple of people start squatting on his property (that he lives at full time) and growing pot there.  Police refused to do anything about it because the guy had a card to grow medicinal marijuana.  They were clearly trespassing, but without a lot of court paperwork police can't or won't do anything.  What makes it even worse, my uncle becomes legally responsible for their safety on the property up to a certain extent despite the fact that they aren't welcome, aren't wanted, been told to leave, and everything else.

[fortyofforty]

1 hour ago, Cougar_ml said:

yeah, that's one of the obnoxious things.  They are legally trespassing, but you can't actually do anything about it without a whole lot of paperwork and documentation.  

 

My uncle had a couple of people start squatting on his property (that he lives at full time) and growing pot there.  Police refused to do anything about it because the guy had a card to grow medicinal marijuana.  They were clearly trespassing, but without a lot of court paperwork police can't or won't do anything.  What makes it even worse, my uncle becomes legally responsible for their safety on the property up to a certain extent despite the fact that they aren't welcome, aren't wanted, been told to leave, and everything else.

That really sucks.

[Moshe]

The whole thing sounds like an idiot convention.  If the guy left, took the guy's name, and contacted the owner, odds are the employee would be on unemployment.  Further, if the MAGA guy got pissed he could see if he wanted to sue to store for singling him out for a First Amendment political opinion, which if the Civil Rights Commission part of the FBI got off their butt and did something (which they rarely do).  Traditionally, they only want to get involved when it is a "racial" issue.  White on white doesn't usually qualify unless the other guy singles you out and calls you a "kike" or some such. 

What I don't understand is Politicians who put up with a mob coming at them at a restaurant.  Most of them have Secret Service Protection.  They should just grin and say, "Release the hounds." That would make for some amusing headlines.  "Illegal Protesters destroy restaurant while being subdued by Secret Service and the local PD."

[Cougar_ml]

50 minutes ago, fortyofforty said:

That really sucks.

It was a decade or so back.  Not sure how long they actually stayed, but they moved away on their own.  I was in another country at the time and only heard about it later (That uncle lives next door. Family land here is about 280 acres so it isn't like the guys moved into the storage shed though)

[Huaco Kid]

Maybe the employee used the ecigarettes to quit smoking and just recently quit vaping entirely and going to work each day was pure torture,  having to stand there and watch everyone blowing huge clouds into his face.

The trumper-guy was just a lit match,  walking into the store.

[Citra47]

4 hours ago, Cougar_ml said:

From what I can tell, political affiliation is not considered to be a type of discrimination covered by the civil rights act, so as much as I don't like it, being asked to leave an establishment because you openly support a specific candidate or politician is not protected by anti-discrimination laws, and is even specifically allowed by the 1964 civil rights act if you are a member of the communist party.

Most of the laws are written as equal employment type laws, but I'm guessing much of the same arguments can be used for who is being served by the workplace as well as who is employed there.

In our current day and age, perhaps political affiliation SHOULD be considered a type if discrimination covered by the civil rights act. While I jokingly use the term "CommieDemDuh" to cover the "Rabid of the Far Left" who spiel hate on a daily basis towards anyone who does NOT agree with them I do so because that hatred has grown from a small group to a large percentage of the population in just a few years. That pure group hatred did not exist prior to the Barack "WannaBeACommunist" Obama administration and his support from the alphabet news media. When we have reached a point in this country where one side hates the other so much they refuse to have an open and civil discussion on politics - they cannot even listen to another viewpoint other than their own - we have begun a very rapid and downward spiral that will completely tear this country apart.  

[Cougar_ml]

42 minutes ago, Citra47 said:

In our current day and age, perhaps political affiliation SHOULD be considered a type if discrimination covered by the civil rights act. While I jokingly use the term "CommieDemDuh" to cover the "Rabid of the Far Left" who spiel hate on a daily basis towards anyone who does NOT agree with them I do so because that hatred has grown from a small group to a large percentage of the population in just a few years. That pure group hatred did not exist prior to the Barack "WannaBeACommunist" Obama administration and his support from the alphabet news media. When we have reached a point in this country where one side hates the other so much they refuse to have an open and civil discussion on politics - they cannot even listen to another viewpoint other than their own - we have begun a very rapid and downward spiral that will completely tear this country apart.  

And the media is playing a large role in this.  My mother looked at the newspaper today and commented about how trump was separating families at the border.  I pointed out it was an obummer era policy that trump was actually responsible for helping end, and the policy was there in the first place because of the large numbers of single males in the general population of those being detained, and it wasn't considered safe for many of the younger people to remain with that group.  My mother didn't have a reply for me (having democrats for parents can be frustrating sometimes, but my sister and uncle are republicans so I don't go insane around here)

[fortyofforty]

3 hours ago, Moshe said:

The whole thing sounds like an idiot convention.  If the guy left, took the guy's name, and contacted the owner, odds are the employee would be on unemployment.  Further, if the MAGA guy got pissed he could see if he wanted to sue to store for singling him out for a First Amendment political opinion, which if the Civil Rights Commission part of the FBI got off their butt and did something (which they rarely do).  Traditionally, they only want to get involved when it is a "racial" issue.  White on white doesn't usually qualify unless the other guy singles you out and calls you a "kike" or some such. 

What I don't understand is Politicians who put up with a mob coming at them at a restaurant.  Most of them have Secret Service Protection.  They should just grin and say, "Release the hounds." That would make for some amusing headlines.  "Illegal Protesters destroy restaurant while being subdued by Secret Service and the local PD."

Congressmen do not have Secret Service protection.  Members of the White House staff possibly do.  That would be amusing, if the assaulting crowd was handled with force.

[Brown Hawk]

5 minutes ago, fortyofforty said:

Congressmen do not have Secret Service protection.  Members of the White House staff possibly do.  That would be amusing, if the assaulting crowd was handled with force.

President, Vice President and families.  Everyone else is on their own.  

Hawk 

[Moshe]

21 minutes ago, fortyofforty said:

Congressmen do not have Secret Service protection.  Members of the White House staff possibly do.  That would be amusing, if the assaulting crowd was handled with force.

Actually, the more important one's do.  Especially, folks like Senators. 

[tous]

Members of Congress have Secret Service protection if they are in the immediate line of succession.

While at work, they are protected, as a group, by the Capital Police Department.

Otherwise, they have to hire private security.

Which likely comes out of the member's office budget.

Edited December 31, 2018 by tous

[fortyofforty]

There are only two members that would have Secret Service protection, then, the Speaker of the House (Paul Ryan/Nancy Pelosi) and President Pro Tempore of the Senate (Orrin Hatch).

[tous]

Must be an echo in here.

 

NB those of us of a certain age were taught the line of succession in grade school.

Those younger, not so much.

Vice-President

Speaker of the House of Representatives

President Pro Tempore of the Senate

Secretary of State

and I can't recall who comes next, either Treasury or Defense.

Yes, we recited the Pledge of Allegiance to begin the school day.

Makes us white-supremacists these days, I imagine.

We were ten.  We just wanted recess and lunch to come.

 

Note also that during gathering such as the State of the Union address, one cabinet member is always deliberately far out of Washington, D.C. in case the city is attacked and all others in the line of succession are killed.

The stuff of many fictional books and TV shows.

[Huaco Kid]

22 minutes ago, tous said:

We were ten.  We just wanted recess and lunch to come.

lol.

I was supposed to play The Star Spangled Banner on my recorder at the start of the talent show (yes,  I ROCKED, even back then).

But I was also dressed up as Herman Munster,  for our skit.

They decided that Herman Munster shouldn't be representin' our National Anthem.

I got yanked,  and didn't even really understand why.

[tous]

We learned the tonette in elementary school.

Everybody learned, or at least make noises.

They were black plastic and shaped like a fat recorder.

Those teachers must have had the patience of Job and then some.

[Huaco Kid]

1 minute ago, tous said:

We learned the tonette in elementary school.

Flute-o-phones.

I went to a private school in England.  We had music and languages,  starting in first grade.

Parly-voo Fransay.  And Gooten-tag.  A lot of that.

I taught the fluteophone class on my first day in America.  I already knew the whole book.

(By then, I was up to a high-dollar wooden recorder.)

[fortyofforty]

10 hours ago, tous said:

Must be an echo in here.

Nah, I was just explaining who those two individuals are.  I never remember that Hatch is President Pro Tem of the Senate, for instance.  Thanks for clarifying that point.

[tous]

Just joshing with you, amigo.