A bad look for the swampers: Moving against Gallagher after Trump's message sent was very clear

[pipedreams]

"Contrary to the media narrative, confusion reigns supreme in the Washington swamp, not the White House, now that the Navy has or hasn't moved to strip Navy Seal Eddie Gallagher of his Trident pin, and one or two officials have reportedly threatened to resign over President Trump's clemency to the man who was convicted of posing for a picture with a dead terrorist. To those of us on the outside, it looks like insubordination to the commander in chief.

One guy isn't going to throw the machinery off. After all, if a genuine military traitor like Bowe Bergdahl could get mercy from President Obama with no complaints from these same people, it's not going to kill them if Gallagher does.

How many messages does it take for these people to recognize that they aren't the boss here? Regardless of the merits of the case, they've got a distinctly unsubordinate air about them and some behaviorial indicipline here badly in need of curbing."

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/11/a_bad_look_for_the_swampers_moving_against_gallagher_after_the_presidential_message_sent_was_very_clear.html

Edited November 24, 2019 by pipedreams

[Dric902]

The CinC is still subject to the UCMJ

’we are a nation of laws and not of men’

”don’t let your emotions override your intelligence” - John Wayne

 

.

[Fnfalman]

11 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

The CinC is still subject to the UCMJ

’we are a nation of laws and not of men’

”don’t let your emotions override your intelligence” - John Wayne

 

.

Huh?  How exactly does the UCMJ apply to a US President?  Who court martial him?  

[Dric902]

Ok

Trump goes to a base to visit troops, 

“Cpl Covfefe, you’re a fine man. What do you want to do with your career?” 
“I want to be a Ranger Sir”

”great, I’m ordering a Ranger tab award for you. I’m assigning you to 1/75 at Hunter Army Airfield. Pack you bags Ranger”

can he do that?

“Sgt Smith, you know more about war fighting than any of my advisors. Would you like to be a Colonel? I want you at the Pentagon on Monday morning”

can he do that?

he does not get to wave his CinC scepter and make rank, unit assignments, etc. he is the ultimate authority, not an ultimate authoritarian.

like a particle physics major commenting on ancient Chinese literature...that’s not his world, and he knows nothing about it. 
 

do you know why no team wants Gallagher? Because he is a known quantity. His name is out there, his wife is giving interviews on Fox. He is retiring because he is known.

these are the men who wear masks, don’t want their name known, don’t want their unit known, they don’t like getting their pictures taken. The people who put out a fatwa on a dog will have no problem finding your family. especially when you have a gofundme page.
I would not want to hit the compound of Baghdadis replacement with him. 

would you want him on your team? would you risk your wife and kids to the media whore? He is retiring, because it’s that or going back to a line unit.

this whole argument is about his retirement status and benefits. 
 

the CinC should stay out of it and let the military handle its own. Headlines or not

 

.

 

[Dric902]

25 minutes ago, Fnfalman said:

Huh?  How exactly does the UCMJ apply to a US President?  Who court martial him?  

Is he subject to laws of the land?

can he rob a bank because he is Prez?

can he steal a car? Abuse drugs?

if he shot somebody on 5th Avenue, he may not lose any support. But he is still subject to arrest for murder.

The UCMJ is law. It has special considerations for the unique military applications, but it is law nonetheless.

do you want the next democrap Prez to have the power you are wanting Trump to use?

 

we do not have kings

 

.

 

[Fnfalman]

19 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

Is he subject to laws of the land?

can he rob a bank because he is Prez?

can he steal a car? Abuse drugs?

if he shot somebody on 5th Avenue, he may not lose any support. But he is still subject to arrest for murder.

The UCMJ is law. It has special considerations for the unique military applications, but it is law nonetheless.

do you want the next democrap Prez to have the power you are wanting Trump to use?

 

we do not have kings

 

.

 

Is the UCMJ applicable to POTUS?  It’s a simple question. For example, if he were to diddle an intern right now and get caught doing it, is he subjected to UCMJ disciplinary actions?

 

[Fnfalman]

29 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

Ok

Trump goes to a base to visit troops, 

“Cpl Covfefe, you’re a fine man. What do you want to do with your career?” 
“I want to be a Ranger Sir”

”great, I’m ordering a Ranger tab award for you. I’m assigning you to 1/75 at Hunter Army Airfield. Pack you bags Ranger”

can he do that?

“Sgt Smith, you know more about war fighting than any of my advisors. Would you like to be a Colonel? I want you at the Pentagon on Monday morning”

can he do that?

he does not get to wave his CinC scepter and make rank, unit assignments, etc. he is the ultimate authority, not an ultimate authoritarian.

like a particle physics major commenting on ancient Chinese literature...that’s not his world, and he knows nothing about it. 
 

do you know why no team wants Gallagher? Because he is a known quantity. His name is out there, his wife is giving interviews on Fox. He is retiring because he is known.

these are the men who wear masks, don’t want their name known, don’t want their unit known, they don’t like getting their pictures taken. The people who put out a fatwa on a dog will have no problem finding your family. especially when you have a gofundme page.
I would not want to hit the compound of Baghdadis replacement with him. 

would you want him on your team? would you risk your wife and kids to the media whore? He is retiring, because it’s that or going back to a line unit.

this whole argument is about his retirement status and benefits. 
 

the CinC should stay out of it and let the military handle its own. Headlines or not

 

.

 

Since that he’s a commander-in-chief, military business is his business and he can do whatever the hell he wants within his duty and responsibility spheres. 
 

if he were to micromanage then by God that’s what he’d do and all the SecDef, admirals and generals better snap to attention and say yessir three bags full. 

[Dric902]

3 minutes ago, Fnfalman said:

Is the UCMJ applicable to POTUS?  It’s a simple question. For example, if he were to diddle an intern right now and get caught doing it, is he subjected to UCMJ disciplinary actions?

 

The Constitution is the law of the land for the President. The UCMJ is law passed by Congress, signed by the Chief Executive.

the President doesn’t get “Court Martialed” under the military court system, he gets impeached by Congress. 

 

The UCMJ is federal law, enacted by Congress. The UCMJ defines the military justice system and lists criminal offenses under military law.

The law requires the President of the United States, acting as commanderin- chief of the Armed Forces, to write rules and regulations to implement military law. The President writes these rules and regulations by issuing an executive order known as the Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM). The MCM details rules and regulations for military court-martials and provides for maximum punishments for each military offense listed in the punitive articles of the UCMJ.

 

 

No military court has jurisdiction over the civilian leadership. That does not mean that the Executive can conduct the military like a corporate board meeting.

 

watch what happens

.

[pipedreams]

Navy

Published 2 hours ago

Last Update 30 mins ago

Esper fires Navy secretary, SEAL will keep Trident pin, Pentagon says

"Defense Secretary Mark Esper fired Navy Secretary Richard Spencer Sunday over his handling of the case of a Navy SEAL who posed for a photo next to an Islamic State terrorist's corpse in Iraq, and the SEAL will be able to keep his Trident pin, a Pentagon spokesman said Sunday.

“Secretary of Defense Mark T. Esper has asked for the resignation of Secretary of the Navy Richard Spencer after losing trust and confidence in him regarding his lack of candor over conversations with the White House involving the handling of Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher," Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said in a statement Sunday."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/navy-seal-eddie-gallagher-review-board-trump-interference?fbclid=IwAR2ds19tci7hojoryrlaZn9iVMVctNUwyU325aPfQEpwA1dB2K2F7OpAgBg

[Dric902]

5 minutes ago, Fnfalman said:

Since that he’s a commander-in-chief, military business is his business and he can do whatever the hell he wants within his duty and responsibility spheres. 
 

if he were to micromanage then by God that’s what he’d do and all the SecDef, admirals and generals better snap to attention and say yessir three bags full. 

No, he can’t. CinC is not an absolute, he cannot treat the US military like little green soldiers to play with. 

watch what happens

.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Dric902

[Dric902]

4 minutes ago, pipedreams said:

Navy

Published 2 hours ago

Last Update 30 mins ago

Esper fires Navy secretary, SEAL will keep Trident pin, Pentagon says

"Defense Secretary Mark Esper fired Navy Secretary Richard Spencer Sunday over his handling of the case of a Navy SEAL who posed for a photo next to an Islamic State terrorist's corpse in Iraq, and the SEAL will be able to keep his Trident pin, a Pentagon spokesman said Sunday.

“Secretary of Defense Mark T. Esper has asked for the resignation of Secretary of the Navy Richard Spencer after losing trust and confidence in him regarding his lack of candor over conversations with the White House involving the handling of Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher," Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said in a statement Sunday."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/navy-seal-eddie-gallagher-review-board-trump-interference?fbclid=IwAR2ds19tci7hojoryrlaZn9iVMVctNUwyU325aPfQEpwA1dB2K2F7OpAgBg

Spencer tried to “make a deal” behind his back

 

watch what happens Dec 2nd

 

.

[Fnfalman]

18 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

The Constitution is the law of the land for the President. The UCMJ is law passed by Congress, signed by the Chief Executive.

the President doesn’t get “Court Martialed” under the military court system, he gets impeached by Congress. 

 

The UCMJ is federal law, enacted by Congress. The UCMJ defines the military justice system and lists criminal offenses under military law.

The law requires the President of the United States, acting as commanderin- chief of the Armed Forces, to write rules and regulations to implement military law. The President writes these rules and regulations by issuing an executive order known as the Manual for Courts-Martial (MCM). The MCM details rules and regulations for military court-martials and provides for maximum punishments for each military offense listed in the punitive articles of the UCMJ.

 

 

No military court has jurisdiction over the civilian leadership. That does not mean that the Executive can conduct the military like a corporate board meeting.

 

watch what happens

.

So...you’re claiming that POTUS is subjected to the UCMJ?  Yes or no. 

[Fnfalman]

18 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

No, he can’t. CinC is not an absolute, he cannot treat the US military like little green soldiers to play with. 

watch what happens

.

He can order GIs to do whatever he wants them to do as long as it’s not an illegal order. 
 

 

[Renegade]

29 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

watch what happens

.

Well Spencer is fired, Gallagher is going to retire as a SEAL, and Trump is POTUS and is not going to get impeached or court martialed over this.

Anything else to watch?

[Fnfalman]

1 minute ago, Renegade said:

Well Spencer is fired, Gallagher is going to retire as a SEAL, and Trump is POTUS and is not going to get impeached or court martialed over this.

Anything else to watch?

Draining the swamp and defending GIs. That’s what King Donald does. MAGA 2020. 

[Dric902]

16 minutes ago, Fnfalman said:

So...you’re claiming that POTUS is subjected to the UCMJ?  Yes or no. 

No, he is required to enforce it, just as he is required to enforce civilian law

 

16 minutes ago, Fnfalman said:

He can order GIs to do whatever he wants them to do as long as it’s not an illegal order. 
 

 

it's a damn shame that you believe that

4 minutes ago, Renegade said:

Well Spencer is fired, Gallagher is going to retire as a SEAL, and Trump is POTUS and is not going to get impeached or court martialed over this.

Anything else to watch?

yeah, the collapse, unintended consequences, and inevitable results

[Dric902]

5 minutes ago, Fnfalman said:

Draining the swamp and defending GIs. That’s what King Donald does. MAGA 2020. 

I’m sorry 

I thought the right was better than the Democrats when it came to the cult of personality

I was wrong, we are so fucked

 

.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Dric902

[pipedreams]

Secretary Esper made exactly the right decision.

Esper has suggested to Trump that Kenneth Braithwaite, a retired Navy rear admiral who is currently the U.S. ambassador to Norway, be considered as the next Navy secretary.

One issue still remains, what about the compromise remaining from the conduct of Lt. Col Alexander Vindman?

[Fnfalman]

9 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

No, he is required to enforce it, just as he is required to enforce civilian law

 

it's a damn shame that you believe that

yeah, the collapse, unintended consequences, and inevitable results

So... you were wrong when you said the UCMJ applies to POTUS?

 

also how upset are you with Ike deployed armed 101st Airborne soldiers against Americans to enforce civil matters?

Edited November 25, 2019 by Fnfalman

[Fnfalman]

9 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

I’m sorry 

I thought the right was better than the Democrats when it came to the cult of personality

I was wrong, we are so ****ed

 

.

Chicken Little. 
 

also did you just assume my political belief?

Edited November 25, 2019 by Fnfalman

[Dric902]

31 minutes ago, Fnfalman said:

So... you were wrong when you said the UCMJ applies to POTUS?

 

also how upset are you with Ike deployed armed 101st Airborne soldiers against Americans to enforce civil matters?

I wasn’t alive when Ike ordered that, and he was challenged fiercely if I remember my history.

but if Trump orders it then...MAGAMAGA, right

would we be ok with Trump ordering Katrina style gun confiscation 
if DACA was a Trump policy.......all for it

Trump says he is pulling out of Syria...MAGAMAGA

He doesn’t pull them out, just back a hundred miles or so, then sends 3000 more to the ME......MAGAMAGA

when he appoints ________(full in the blank) “greatest appointment ever”.......MAGAMAGA

appointee does something......”loser, swamp, nevertrump”...........MAGAMAGA

do you know what  difference was between the Truman administration aand the Eisenhower? Neither does anybody else. Why? Because America was a constant in the world. We may shift one way or another, but “turning the Titanic takes time” was on purpose.

we don’t have major swings in policy, military forces, foreign policy, treaties.

until Obama, when the President didn’t need to be anything but popular enough win. The left slavishly justified and excused anything he did, and attacked any disagreement. Iran deal, Israel abandonment, kissing the EUs ass, we tore Obama a new one over Manning and Bergdahl.

the Right was different.

”was”

now we answer anything with “TDS, swamp, neocon, deep state, MAGAMAGACOVFEFE”

and think we’re better because....we’re better, and if you don’t agree then you’re a “TDS, Swamp, DeeepState, Globalist, Neocon, MAGAMAGACOVFEFE”

We didn’t beat them, we became them with different jerseys. running headlong and cheering into it.

 

it will be years, if ever, to recover.

.

 

.

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Dric902

[DWARREN123]

Some times the person in charge just has to step in and say that was a incorrect action!

Doesn't happen with just the President.

[EdTracker]

Now I AM curious.

 

Is the president subject to the UCMJ?

 

YaKnoe, Inquiring minds.

[Fnfalman]

26 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

I wasn’t alive when Ike ordered that, and he was challenged fiercely if I remember my history.

but if Trump orders it then...MAGAMAGA, right

would we be ok with Trump ordering Katrina style gun confiscation 
if DACA was a Trump policy.......all for it

Trump says he is pulling out of Syria...MAGAMAGA

He doesn’t pull them out, just back a hundred miles or so, then sends 3000 more to the ME......MAGAMAGA

when he appoints ________(full in the blank) “greatest appointment ever”.......MAGAMAGA

appointee does something......”loser, swamp, nevertrump”...........MAGAMAGA

do you know what  difference was between the Truman administration aand the Eisenhower? Neither does anybody else. Why? Because America was a constant in the world. We may shift one way or another, but “turning the Titanic takes time” was on purpose.

we don’t have major swings in policy, military forces, foreign policy, treaties.

until Obama, when the President didn’t need to be anything but popular enough win. The left slavishly justified and excused anything he did, and attacked any disagreement. Iran deal, Israel abandonment, kissing the EUs ass, we tore Obama a new one over Manning and Bergdahl.

the Right was different.

”was”

now we answer anything with “TDS, swamp, neocon, deep state, MAGAMAGACOVFEFE”

and think we’re better because....we’re better, and if you don’t agree then you’re a “TDS, Swamp, DeeepState, Globalist, Neocon, MAGAMAGACOVFEFE”

We didn’t beat them, we became them with different jerseys. running headlong and cheering into it.

 

it will be years, if ever, to recover.

.

 

.

 

 

 

Yes. Whatever Trump does it’s for the betterment of America. MAGA 2020. 

[Fnfalman]

13 minutes ago, EdTracker said:

Now I AM curious.

 

Is the president subject to the UCMJ?

 

YaKnoe, Inquiring minds.

I wonder why JFK wasn’t court martialed for adultery?  If POTUSes are subjected to the UCMJ...