Kentucky derby outcome

[SilverRidge01]

And the beat goes on, just read the trainer of Win, Win, Win, has come out with a real negative response on what he thought of the jockeys performance on the DQ horse, states in his opinion the jockey rode a wreckless wild dangerous race with no regards for others. Doesn't know why people are so upset with the DQ. Stay tuned the beat goes on .....

[MtnBiker]

It was like the final 2 minutes of an NFL game.  It goes on for 25 minutes, most of which is reviewing vids or watching officials review vids.

This stuff is entertainment.  Waiting for some official the finally make a judgement is not entertaining.

The NFL lost me for a variety of reasons.  This is one.  The horseracing world never really had me.  I hadn't seen the Ky Derby for probably 15 years.  I am more than willing to wait at least that long before I view it again.

 

[SilverRidge01]

Like I said, it ain't over til the fat lady sings, in the newspaper the owners of the DQ horse have retained an attorney and stated they have another first time seen angle that clearly shows without a doubt the other horse made an Unusual move that caused the DQ horse make supposedly the move that disqualified him ...amazes me the technology that goes into all facets of our life, nothing these days is the way our eyes see it, always something we missed, also in the news an article about a fella that was brought up on murder charges after 53 years found his DNA on a kitchen knife, 53 years that's a lifetime, and come to think of it that serial killer in California  was finally caught, the dude was in his late 70s that's the technological age we live in, it really perks ones interest because it ain't over til the fat lady sings, wait I think I hear her singing, nope it's the dog wanting to get back into the house...  

[Valmet]

I can't imagine the "powers that be," in the horse-racing world were very pleased with the outcome as something like this left a bad taste in lots of folks' mouths. 

[saltwater]

On 5/8/2019 at 5:26 PM, Silentpoet said:

LOL........I am definitely stealing this.

[SC Tiger]

On 5/11/2019 at 11:32 AM, SilverRidge01 said:

Like I said, it ain't over til the fat lady sings, in the newspaper the owners of the DQ horse have retained an attorney and stated they have another first time seen angle that clearly shows without a doubt the other horse made an Unusual move that caused the DQ horse make supposedly the move that disqualified him ...amazes me the technology that goes into all facets of our life, nothing these days is the way our eyes see it, always something we missed, also in the news an article about a fella that was brought up on murder charges after 53 years found his DNA on a kitchen knife, 53 years that's a lifetime, and come to think of it that serial killer in California  was finally caught, the dude was in his late 70s that's the technological age we live in, it really perks ones interest because it ain't over til the fat lady sings, wait I think I hear her singing, nope it's the dog wanting to get back into the house...  

That would be interesting.  Something I've not really looked into is WHY did Maximum Security dart to the outside other than the jockey saying he was spooked.

[TXUSMC]

A few thoughts...from a person with no equine experience.

1. If you're riding a horse that is behind the front runner as you head down the stretch, you either a) are on an inferior mount or b) you rode a poorly strategized race. Want to avoid being squeezed? Get out in front and stay there.

2. Thoroughbreds have a reputation as being high strung creatures. Crowd noise at the Derby is much louder than at another racetrack where the stakes aren't so high.

3. Jockeys who amass DQs don't get rides. Riding a reckless race would not be in this guy's professional interests.

4. NASCAR handles this better... if some paint gets swapped, so what?

[SC Tiger]

1 hour ago, TXUSMC said:

A few thoughts...from a person with no equine experience.

1. If you're riding a horse that is behind the front runner as you head down the stretch, you either a) are on an inferior mount or b) you rode a poorly strategized race. Want to avoid being squeezed? Get out in front and stay there.

2. Thoroughbreds have a reputation as being high strung creatures. Crowd noise at the Derby is much louder than at another racetrack where the stakes aren't so high.

3. Jockeys who amass DQs don't get rides. Riding a reckless race would not be in this guy's professional interests.

4. NASCAR handles this better... if some paint gets swapped, so what?

I think you're right on #2, #1 is pacing to try to keep from tiring the horse out, #3 makes sense (and explains why the jockey said something about it), and as for #4 - the difference is if they wreck a race car and tear it up, they don't have to shoot it.

I'm okay with DQs for dangerous moves because that can get horses or jockeys killed.  But they need to be legitimate.  This one looks to be unless MS was forced outside by another horse.

[SilverRidge01]

The never ending thread ! Now the jockey Luis Saez has been suspended by the commission for 14 days he also has an attorney which will dispute he did anything dangerous to be DQ, and all the jockeys in the race will appear at a hearing and testified in his behalf, wonder who is going to appear on the horses behalf, how they going to punish the horse, he only gets half a bale of hay for a week, they are really milking this thing, they'll still be disputing this by the time next Derby takes place ...

[TXUSMC]

No disagreement, SC... but you can pace your horse out of the race if you're counting on the other guy's horse tiring, too. The lead horse has to do one thing: keep the lead. Everybody behind him has to do two things: catch him, and jockey for position in the pack. Unless the stewards can prove conclusively that the jockey on the lead horse made a deliberate foul, then I would not award a DQ.

But again, I'm a casual fan of horse racing, at best. The sport was hurt by the ruling though... seemed like the best horse didn't win. The more subjective a sport is, the less the general public will trust the results. 

[SC Tiger]

16 hours ago, SilverRidge01 said:

The never ending thread ! Now the jockey Luis Saez has been suspended by the commission for 14 days he also has an attorney which will dispute he did anything dangerous to be DQ, and all the jockeys in the race will appear at a hearing and testified in his behalf, wonder who is going to appear on the horses behalf, how they going to punish the horse, he only gets half a bale of hay for a week, they are really milking this thing, they'll still be disputing this by the time next Derby takes place ...

Was going to post that but here's the link:

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/maximum-security-jockey-suspended-for-15-days-for-kentucky-derby-interference

Horse probably doesn't know he did anything wrong.  Kinda feel bad for the big fella - he did what he was supposed to do.  He wins, he gets to run more.  He loses, he gets to run more.  He gets hurt, he gets shot.  

Seems like kind a raw deal for the horses..........

The lawsuits for this thing will be knotted up for years.

16 hours ago, TXUSMC said:

No disagreement, SC... but you can pace your horse out of the race if you're counting on the other guy's horse tiring, too. The lead horse has to do one thing: keep the lead. Everybody behind him has to do two things: catch him, and jockey for position in the pack. Unless the stewards can prove conclusively that the jockey on the lead horse made a deliberate foul, then I would not award a DQ.

But again, I'm a casual fan of horse racing, at best. The sport was hurt by the ruling though... seemed like the best horse didn't win. The more subjective a sport is, the less the general public will trust the results. 

I think you have to know the horse and know the competition.  At max competition, against the best of the best, nothing is simple.

In any endurance event pacing comes into play.  Even auto racing - the drivers "save some car" for the end of the race.  Usually they want to avoid pushing the car too hard and either break something or crash.  Downside is that often you decide to really go, and it won't go.  But that's more of a car thing.  Watch a Nascar race at Daytona or Talladega and you will see how much thought goes into not only when to start your run, but where you want to be.  Horse racing doesn't have the restriction of the draft and once the horse has spent energy it's gone, so it's even more of an issue.

But long-distance runners, swimmers, and cyclists use pacing.  1-2 miles isn't long enough to get much separation anyway.  I think the riders try to stay in touch with the lead and save some energy for the final run, while getting to the rail but not getting trapped.  That's what being a good jockey entails I think.

Had Maximum Security not darted outside it's arguable that he might not have won.  I think two other horses were coming on the outside.

As to damaging the sport?  Yes, definitely.  The sport was really hurt.  I imagine viewership of the Preakness will be at a near-all-time low.

 

Years ago there was a race where a horse fell, got up, and his leg was broken and was flopping around.  That sight always stuck with me.  I think that might be why I'm more of the opinion that the DQ was warranted.  But I'm open to considering more info as it comes out too.

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by SC Tiger

[willie-pete]

I thought this was an interesting video.; may explain why he moved outside 

New Video Raises Questions About The Kentucky Derby Disqualification

https://www.yahoo.com/news/maximum-security-kentuck-derby-new-video-043736761.html

Edited May 14, 2019 by willie-pete

[Peng]

I am in the minority here, but I have always believed the real time officiating of a sport should be as much a part of the sport as the game itself.

Refs might make mistakes.  Boo Hoo.  So does everyone.  

Think of how many famous plays from the past would simply not exist if all this HD camera slo mo stuff existed back then.

The immaculate reception would have been nullified in 10 seconds, on to the next play.  Harris himself has more or less admitted he picked the ball off the ground and ran it in.  Then there is the whole issue of who the ball touched and when.  They did use some replay to review it but with the cameras of the day it was pretty pointless. 

It's just a game, my God.  

[railfancwb]

Read somewhere that the top four finishers in the Derby are not entered in the Preakness.

Over the years some possible Triple Crown winners did not chase it because there were higher purse races following the Derby than the Belmont or Preakness.

For awhile the horse with the most purse winnings was a gelding. Couldn’t put him out to stud so kept racing him.

At one time the richest purse in horse racing was for a quarter mile sprint at Reodosa Downs in New Mexico.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TXUSMC]

Horse racing's place in the pecking order of American sports has diminished significantly, but at one time... 1920s, 30s, and 40s... baseball, professional boxing, and horse racing had the highest following of any sports. There was a time when Babe Ruth, Jack Dempsey, and any horse with a shot at the Triple Crown dominated the sports pages.