Snow-encrusted LED stoplights create havoc in Oak Park Heights MN

[TBO]

Energy-efficient traffic lights on Minnesota 36 in Oak Park Heights caused a major problem for eastbound drivers Tuesday morning after the lenses became encrusted with ice and snow overnight.

“They couldn’t see the red light,” said Police Chief Brian DeRosier. “They kept going through the stoplights because they thought they were green.”

The Minnesota Department of Transportation installed the LEDs as part of the new St. Croix River bridge project. Because the lights don’t emit much — if any — heat, ice and snow can accumulate.

“It was the perfect storm, if you will, because we had the ice and the wind and the snow and the cold,” DeRosier said. “The wind blew it, literally, into the lenses.”

Problems were reported at Washington Avenue/Norell Avenue, Oakgreen Avenue/Greeley Street and Osgood Avenue. Police heard “lots of radio chatter” about possible and near-misses, especially on Oakgreen, but received only one report of an accident with physical damage — at Washington/Norell, DeRosier said.

“Thankfully, there were no serious accidents,” he said. “But it caused problems for people who wanted to go north and south across the highway and couldn’t get across because the traffic wouldn’t stop.”

MnDOT crews responded to the scene and cleared the lenses, DeRosier said.

A MnDOT spokeman said Minnesota and other northern states are looking for solutions.

“This is a common issue anywhere there are LED lights and snow and ice,” said Kevin Gutknecht, the agency’s director of communications.

The new LED stoplights are 90 percent more energy-efficient than older, incandescent lights, but “they emit much less heat,” he said. “Incandescent lights emitted enough heat to help melt off snow and ice.”

Oak Park Heights Mayor Mary McComber said she hopes MnDOT comes up with a plan — and quick.

“This was just the first big (weather) incident of the winter,” she said. “We can’t have this happen all winter.”

http://www.twincities.com/2017/12/05/snow-encrusted-led-stoplights-create-havoc-in-oak-park-heights/

 

[Clancy]

Good thing that didn't happen in Ohio!

[Sgt 127]

Hmm. That old unintended consequences thingy...

[XSIV4S]

19 minutes ago, Sgt 127 said:

Hmm. That old unintended consequences thingy...

Yeah, I'm surprised it took this long to become an issue. With Rigs up in Alaska and Canada it has been an issue for over a decade. Everyone jumped on the bandwagon to change to LED lights, but they simply don't generate enough heat to melt the snow and ice of the lenses.

[janice6]

Someone will come up with a greatly heralded solution that incorporates putting a heater in the light, thereby negating the energy savings.

It's similar to putting reflectors on/into the pavement so lane marking is obvious at night.  Then in the snow belt, the plows cut them off and we're back to square one.

(driving in Hawaii at night was quite an experience for a Minnesota driver, since they favor roadway reflectors to eliminate light pollution for the telescopes)

[devildog2067]

1 hour ago, janice6 said:

Someone will come up with a greatly heralded solution that incorporates putting a heater in the light, thereby negating the energy savings.

Won't negate the energy savings, since they will presumably only be heated when it's snowing. Over the lifetime of the lights that's a lot of energy saved. Might negate the cost savings though.

[janice6]

50 minutes ago, devildog2067 said:

Won't negate the energy savings, since they will presumably only be heated when it's snowing. Over the lifetime of the lights that's a lot of energy saved. Might negate the cost savings though.

Detecting when it is snowing in itself, is an added expense in new control systems or additional supervision.  The determination of what lights need "de-icing", versus which ones do not, means individual systems locally installed, increasing cost and associated maintenance with increased electronic complexity. 

Supervision determining which lights or locale needs attention, is also time consuming and an additional personnel burden (cost).  Since it is a government problem, I have little hope it will be economical solution.  Government looks for solutions, not necessarily the best solution, but a convenient solution.

 

I do like the LED lights there are many advantages with them, just that this is not one of them.

 

.

 

 

[XSIV4S]

11 minutes ago, janice6 said:

Detecting when it is snowing in itself, is an added expense in new control systems or additional supervision.  The determination of what lights need "de-icing", versus which ones do not, means individual systems locally installed, increasing cost and associated maintenance with increased electronic complexity. 

Supervision determining which lights or locale needs attention, is also time consuming and an additional personnel burden (cost).  Since it is a government problem, I have little hope it will be economical solution.  Government looks for solutions, not necessarily the best solution, but a convenient solution.

 

I do like the LED lights there are many advantages with them, just that this is not one of them.

 

.

 

 

Ultimately the heater would probably resemble that of an out-door security camera which would mean a heating element and fan and the solution would probably call for heating the entire light fixture (Expense-times every street light improved). This would all be due to the cost savings of LED (One single bulb burning at any given time at 10-15 watts versus 125 watts for conventional bulbs). I think the "Cures" for cold weather will eat up every penny of the savings and then some.

My opinion would be at the manufacturer level they should think about making extreme weather traffic lights that based on temperature or preset timer would switch between LED and standard bulbs (Both would be present in the fixture). This also gives you a redundant light source when one of the bulbs fails (This would typically be the conventional bulbs, not the LED).

[fortyofforty]

If only there was a light-emitting device that generated heat, enough to melt any ice and snow.  Where is Thomas Edison when we need him?

[stevekozak]

Apparently it doesnt take much to create havoc in Minnesota......

[TBO]

Maybe they could station the homeless below the lights with a long handled broom to sweep the lights when it snows. Offer casino coupons to the helpers.

 

Sent from my Jack boot using Copatalk

 

 

 

 

[Jason D]

We've had them here in my town for several years. It's not been an issue. 

[TBO]

We've had them here in my town for several years. It's not been an issue. 

Nobody obeys traffic signals there anyway.

Sent from my Jack boot using Copatalk

[fortyofforty]

I think a multimillion dollar commission needs to be formed, followed by a "temporary" government spending program that will go away when hell freezes over.

[dudel]

22 hours ago, Sgt 127 said:

Hmm. That old unintended consequences thingy...

No such thing as unintended consequences; just unanticipated ones.

 

Or, as we say in the programming world:  It's working as coded.

Edited December 7, 2017 by dudel

[holyjohnson]

that`s why i don`t stop for any red lights in winter!

 

 

[Booker]

19 hours ago, TBO said:

Maybe they could station the homeless below the lights with a long handled broom to sweep the lights when it snows. Offer casino coupons to the helpers.

 

Sent from my Jack boot using Copatalk

 

Bastard, that was my plan!  Plan B:  Hire the homeless, put them up in a Cherry Picker, and give them a Dollar Store candle to keep the lights warm!

 

 

 

[fortyofforty]

You can't force homeless Americans to do it.  You have to hire illegal aliens undocumented Democrats because it's a job Americans won't do.