If you have a CCL, are you training frequently?

[Will Beararms]

We have a community range a mile from the Home 20. I’ve gotten into this routine of shooting 20 to 200 rounds every Saturday morning. 

This morning, I had (5) man-sized targets set up. I ran through 200 rounds with my HK P30S .40 all were double taps——-Draw—-DA —-SA—De-Cock——Holster—-Draw——DA——SA—-De-Cock.......

It’s work but if you are going to carry, you need to work at being proficient. 

[DUBSY]

14 hours ago, Will Beararms said:

It’s work but if you are going to carry, you need to work at being proficient. 

+1

[Old Buzzard]

14 hours ago, Will Beararms said:

We have a community range a mile from the Home 20. I’ve gotten into this routine of shooting 20 to 200 rounds every Saturday morning. 

This morning, I had (5) man-sized targets set up. I ran through 200 rounds with my HK P30S .40 all were double taps——-Draw—-DA —-SA—De-Cock——Holster—-Draw——DA——SA—-De-Cock.......

It’s work but if you are going to carry, you need to work at being proficient. 

That is not training.

[crockett]

Maybe once a month after testing a new handload. At the end of the session I will go through a box of hot target ammo which replicates my SD ammo in projectile weight and velocity. But only stationary, and only my personal routine of draw, rack and double tap until mag is empty. It's pretty ingrained, that won't go anywhere anytime soon, even if I don't train for a longer time.

[Will Beararms]

Whatever you want to call it, I have been carrying a Glock for 25 years and I have to get to the pont where the De-Cocker system on the V3 HK P30 is second nature. I am close now. 

Drawing and holstering is importatnt to me also as I want safe drawing and holstering to be second nature. 

[limeylad]

Nope!

 

[fastbolt]

Familiarization is good.

Practice is good, too, presuming you're practicing something you've learned and instilled via training. That doesn't mean it has to be a lot of training, but enough to give you a good foundation and the ability to recognize if you're slipping into bad habits.

Some recurrent training is good, but a lot of regular gun owners/carriers may not have either the money or the time to seek out and obtain a lot of training. Barring that, perhaps testing yourself in something like IDPA or GSSF might be a handy thing to give you some feedback on any areas where you might need to brush up, or even consider seeking out some short training (like a single day's course, like are sometimes scheduled at some local ranges).

Then, as has been mentioned, becoming accustomed to a new handgun design, with slightly different controls, can require some repetitive range time in order to "hardwire" it into your existing gun handling software. Kind of like learning how to make a new holster "first nature". (I've always thought that "second nature" wasn't quite "good enough", compared to making something first nature. )

Congrats on the P30. Some folks really like some of the Hk variants.

 

[BMyers]

My wife and I try to shot an IDPA match 3 to 4 times a month.

 

[Smokey45]

My training days are few and far between now. I do try to maintain proficiency with my tools. I belong to two clubs and have three more within 50 miles of my residence. Every week, often twice, there is a local IDPA/USPSA/Steel Challenge/Speed Steel match. I shoot four to five matches a month, and usually a practice day during the week. Lately I've been starting my practice session by firing the "Concealed Carry Drill" (featured in a recent NRA magazine) which consists of timed strings from the holster at 3-5-7-10-15-25 yds. Total of 48 rds. I shoot it cold for score. Still haven't shot it clean. I shoot it with my carry gun, Glock 27. It's not training, but it's worthwhile practice and fun to boot. As a result of the matches and practice sessions, I also spend a bit of time reloading to feed my addiction.

s45

Edited July 26, 2018 by Smokey45

[fastbolt]

Well Smokey45, that's far and away more than probably 98% of all the other folks who carry guns, including both cops and CCW-type private citizens, will ever do to keep in practice.

Once you've accumulated a lifetime of shooting training & practice, it becomes more about keeping the rust off, I think. Just like I don't engage in the exhausting and brutal training from my younger years in the martial arts, but just enough to keep things coordinated, smooth and able to be done without conscious thought. That younger time of learning/training would injure me nowadays.

Edited July 27, 2018 by fastbolt

[Smokey45]

I have 3/4 of a century of experience in this world, it's debatable how much I've learned from it.  I try to retain as much as I can of my "skill at arms." I'm pushing 78 and retired so I have the time, and enjoy shooting. I'm in good physical health and condition for my age, so I push on.  Although I'm not likely to win a match, I frequently finish in the top third. That's not too bad considering the competition. I am truly blessed to have the time and resources to enjoy what I like to do.  Thank you Lord!

s45

[Paper Tiger]

On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:26 PM, fastbolt said:

Well Smokey45, that's far and away more than probably 98% of all the other folks who carry guns, including both cops and CCW-type private citizens, will ever do to keep in practice.

Once you've accumulated a lifetime of shooting training & practice, it becomes more about keeping the rust off, I think. Just like I don't engage in the exhausting and brutal training from my younger years in the martial arts, but just enough to keep things coordinated, smooth and able to be done without conscious thought. That younger time of learning/training would injure me nowadays.

I agree with this

If you are trained, you need to keep the rust off.  If you are untrained, you need proper training. 

In regards to lawful self defense:  Proper training (to me) included training that involves realistic tactics, strategics , marksmanship/ gun handling and a fighting context that acknowledges the danger your adversary poses.  I will not disparage gun games as I believe there are some marksmanship as well as gun handling skills which can be developed from that sort of thing.  I will say that gun games are a highly regulated and timed sporting context which in my view is substantially different and apart from fighting, combat, SDsurvival context.  Essentially, (in my view) as far as gun games go (you don't fight that way).  I admire the skill I see in matches and I consider the men and women who participate to be athletes but I wont call it fighting, combat or gunfight training.   I would prefer to simply train as I would fight, not train as I would game. 

[Mike]

32 minutes ago, Paper Tiger said:

I agree with this

If you are trained, you need to keep the rust off.  If you are untrained, you need proper training. 

In regards to lawful self defense:  Proper training (to me) included training that involves realistic tactics, strategics , marksmanship/ gun handling and a fighting context that acknowledges the danger your adversary poses.  I will not disparage gun games as I believe there are some marksmanship as well as gun handling skills which can be developed from that sort of thing.  I will say that gun games are a highly regulated and timed sporting context which in my view is substantially different and apart from fighting, combat, SDsurvival context.  Essentially, (in my view) as far as gun games go (you don't fight that way).  I admire the skill I see in matches and I consider the men and women who participate to be athletes but I wont call it fighting, combat or gunfight training.   I would prefer to simply train as I would fight, not train as I would game. 

I agree with this.

I see guys at the range doing double tap, scan (tactical hair flip), reholster and repeat as if they are a robot. that is just silly in my opinion. What if it takes 3 shots to stop the first threat and his buddy next to him takes 3 more, all that range kata bs will most likely be counter productive in real life.

Train for real life!

[fastbolt]

23 hours ago, Mike said:

I agree with this.

I see guys at the range doing double tap, scan (tactical hair flip), reholster and repeat as if they are a robot. that is just silly in my opinion. What if it takes 3 shots to stop the first threat and his buddy next to him takes 3 more, all that range kata bs will most likely be counter productive in real life.

Train for real life!

Yep, rote repetition of some "range reflex" can be a different thing than doing some movement for a useful purpose.

Interesting you'd mention the "scan", as that's something that causes a lot of people more than a little difficulty. The first difficulty is getting them to consistently do it. They're often so focused on what they just did (and looking for holes in their target) that they may not be able to break their "target focus" in order to scan for additional threats. Then, even once they can make themselves remember to "scan/look", it often becomes some head flip/nod to each side ... but they don't actually look to see. In order to try and make them realize this I may station another instructor off to either side, a few yards behind them, standing or doing something strange, or just move myself and make some hand gesture to them, to see if they pick up on it. Unfortunately, more often than not, they "scan" right by and don't actually see what's happening.

Even once you can  get them to LOOK around them, then you usually have to get them to realize they may have to look upward, like checking the balcony to the second floor apt behind and to one side of them (looking for the friends of the suspect they might've just shot, etc.

This is a different aspect of the normal psychological problem of one type of sensory deficit, where someone may not be able to break off their attention from a just-occurred threat. It takes dedicated effort, attention and training to break a bad habit ... and prevent a good tactic from becoming just an another automatic "bad habit" effort once you're off the range. I remind the cops I help train that they really need to be aware not only of additional possible threats, but responding help/cover rushing up on them, as well.

You don't want to be so startled by an arriving cover guy/gal that it startles you and causes you to have a ND, or sweep them with your just used weapon, either.

Edited July 31, 2018 by fastbolt

[Mike]

22 hours ago, fastbolt said:

Yep, rote repetition of some "range reflex" can be a different thing than doing some movement for a useful purpose.

Interesting you'd mention the "scan", as that's something that causes a lot of people more than a little difficulty. The first difficult is getting them to consistently do it. They're often so focused on what they just did (and looking for holes in their target) that they may not be able to break their "target focus" in order to scan for additional threats. Then, even once they can make themselves remember to "scan/look", it often becomes some head flip/nod to each side ... but they don't actually look to see. In order to try and make them realize this I may station another instructor off to either side, a few yards behind them, standing or doing something strange, or just move myself and make some hand gesture to them, to see if they pick up on it. Unfortunately, more often than not, they "scan" right by and don't actually see what's happening.

Even once you can  get them to LOOK around them, then you usually have to get them to realize they may have to look upward, like checking the balcony to the second floor apt behind and to one side of them (looking for the friends of the suspect they might've just shot, etc.

This is a different aspect of the normal psychological problem of one type of sensory deficit, where someone may not be able to break off their attention from a just-occurred threat. It takes dedicated effort, attention and training to break a bad habit ... and prevent a good tactic from becoming just an another automatic "bad habit" effort once you're off the range. I remind the cops I help train that they really need to be aware not only of additional possible threats, but responding help/cover rushing up on them, as well.

You don't want to be so startled by an arriving cover guy/gal that it startles you and causes you to have a ND, or sweep them with your just used weapon, either.

I have seen what you are talking about.

A few years back a class I was in was explaining "the scan" and while we were on the line, the AI was a few yards behind us doing a hand stand, nobody noticed. After that I learned to pay better attention.

[MAG40 Student]

I just completed an Advanced Handgun Skills class with Midwest Training Group, run by six-time national pistol champion Bob Houzenga and Andy Kemp.  Drills from 4 to 25 yards; 1,200+ rounds over two days.   Took it previously, but a great opportunity to revisit and brush-up skills.  It was not a tactical class, but they did work in some shooting from the ground, lying on one's back, sides, stomach, and even shooting overhead while lying on one's back.  

They noted that, "Sometimes the first indication you get that you're in a fight is that you've just been knocked to the ground."  True enough. 

A few weeks ago, an older friend of mine (he's nearing 80 but healthy and very fit), was exiting his car which he had just parked on the street, in front of a local business.  Just then another driver turned too tightly and struck his car.  In the middle of exchanging insurance information, the other driver, less than half his age, inexplicably sucker-punched my friend to the ground.  As the thirty-something was pulling his leg back to deliver a kick to the head, he was stopped by the sight of my friend's drawn weapon.  Picking himself up, he called 911 to report the assault.  Dispatcher asked, "Were any weapons involved?"  His reply: "Yes.  Mine.  I'm holding him at gunpoint now."  Two minutes later, my friend re-holstered as the first of 10 squads arrived on-site.  Officers asked, "Where's the weapon?"  "On my right hip," came the reply.  One of the LEOs lifted my friend's cover garment, looked at the holstered weapon and said, "Nice gun."  Then he turned to the assailant and said, "You're under arrest, a*****e."  He was charged with Aggravated Assault of a Senior Citizen.   

You never know who, when, where, or how.  And the why doesn't really matter until it's over.

Always carry. 

Stay safe, all.

[Slotback]

Draw strokes, holstering, dry fire. Lots of practice.

[sparkyfender]

Not as much as I should, like a lot of people.............

[sparkyfender]

double post...

Edited August 9, 2018 by sparkyfender

[mmcbeat]

I have had a ccl (under a variety of names) in two states since 1996. I try to make it to the range at least twice a month. I shoot 100-200 rounds per trip. 

[DWARREN123]

I try but as of late due to injuries and just being wore down not so much.

[EricB]

Two to three times a month   At least 50 rounds a session. 

[dgg9]

I'm really fortunate that there's a legit indoor training range with classes and training modules, shoot house, etc etc etc 20 minutes from my house.