First real female Green Beret

[Fnfalman]

On 6/27/2020 at 2:19 PM, Wyzz Kydd said:

I get the impression you never served or if you did you either forgot what the military was like or weren’t paying attention. 
 

I come from a long line of folks who served in pretty much every major conflict dating back to the Revolutionary War (excepting only the Korean War). Things haven’t changed other than better weapons. Go along to get along. Protest to much and you don’t get the check mark in your personnel file and you languish as a E6, or O4-O6, maybe even get RIFed shortly before you hit 20 years.

True warriors who get promoted to significant rank, like Patton and Grant, are the exception. For every Patton there are 100+ McClellens. For every Mattis 1,000 Colin Powell’s.

If your uncle or grandfather or great-grandfather sat you down and explained what it takes to make Flag rank NOT in a time of war you might have less faith in the military bureaucracy.

So now you impugn upon the integrity of the enlisted SF instructors?  Did you see these NCOs pencil whip people through the systems?  Or you just "know it" because of your vast military experience with Spec Ops?

[Fnfalman]

On 6/27/2020 at 2:00 PM, 26isbest said:

And those with ambitions to remain in and get promoted know that careers have been sidelined by disagreeing with the Brass and still can be. General Singlaub was an unusually public example but hardly the Lone Ranger. Lt Col Anthony Herbert is another example that comes to mind.

http://www.nytimes.com/1978/06/03/archives/general-forced-into-retirement-charges-carter-ignored-joint-chiefs.html

She still had to pass peer review.  Her team members all would be sucking up to the Brass and gave her positive reviews so that they can make stripes too?

Same thing with all the chicks that went through Ranger School.  They all had to pass peer review and you telling me a Spec-4 or an E-5 would give a damn about what the Brass is pushing?  

[Wyzz Kydd]

54 minutes ago, Fnfalman said:

So now you impugn upon the integrity of the enlisted SF instructors?  Did you see these NCOs pencil whip people through the systems?  Or you just "know it" because of your vast military experience with Spec Ops?

I suspect I know a lot more about it than you, particularly since you're pretty much a one note Charlie.  Spec Ops experience, Spec Ops experience, ad nauseam.  I think it's best we just ignore each other since I find you pretty boring. 

[26isbest]

7 hours ago, Fnfalman said:

 

So...Trump as CIC, did not MAGA (Make Army Great Again)?  After all, he's POTUS and CIC, right?

Trying to wind me up over Trump's often hare brained style will not get me to spread this discussion into other areas so you can divert attention elsewhere. Trump seems to consider himself the smartest guy on Earth. That makes him immune to taking advice from others in many cases IMO. I still prefer him to any Dim but recognize that he is deeply flawed. If you want someone to argue Trump as The Art Of The Deal or three dimensional chess maestro of all that is look elsewhere.  

7 hours ago, Fnfalman said:

She still had to pass peer review.  Her team members all would be sucking up to the Brass and gave her positive reviews so that they can make stripes too?

Same thing with all the chicks that went through Ranger School.  They all had to pass peer review and you telling me a Spec-4 or an E-5 would give a damn about what the Brass is pushing?  

To suggest that E4s and E5s, particularly those eyeing a 20 year or longer career, are immune to pressure from the CSM, XO, CO and every one else in the chain of command is going well beyond naivete.

Do you really believe that Senior NCOs can't exert pressure on Junior enlisted to do absolutely incorrect or even suicidally stupid things? If so, look up USMC Staff Sergeant McKeon and the Ribbon Creek incident.

Another extreme example is that Lt William Calley pressured his men into committing mass murder at My Lai.  Even though at least some members of his squad didn't want to commit murder they did. And more people would have died and it all would have been covered up if not for the presence of Hugh Thompson and his crew members Andreotta and Colburn. After the killing was stopped a whole slew of Army personnel collaborated on giving Thompson, Andreotta and Colburn phony medals to shut them up and cover up the entire affair. 

She may have passed legit or she may have had the benefit of lowered standards/pencil whipping. Ruling out the latter out of hand seems Pollyannaish given what I have witnessed of routine pencil whipping/cover ups and what history shows about extreme examples.

[Wyzz Kydd]

24 minutes ago, 26isbest said:

Trying to wind me up over Trump's often hare brained style will not get me to spread this discussion into other areas so you can divert attention elsewhere. Trump seems to consider himself the smartest guy on Earth. That makes him immune to taking advice from others in many cases IMO. I still prefer him to any Dim but recognize that he is deeply flawed. If you want someone to argue Trump as The Art Of The Deal or three dimensional chess maestro of all that is look elsewhere.  

To suggest that E4s and E5s, particularly those eyeing a 20 year or longer career, are immune to pressure from the CSM, XO, CO and every one else in the chain of command is going well beyond naivete.

Do you really believe that Senior NCOs can't exert pressure on Junior enlisted to do absolutely incorrect or even suicidally stupid things? If so, look up USMC Staff Sergeant McKeon and the Ribbon Creek incident.

Another extreme example is that Lt William Calley pressured his men into committing mass murder at My Lai.  Even though at least some members of his squad didn't want to commit murder they did. And more people would have died and it all would have been covered up if not for the presence of Hugh Thompson and his crew members Andreotta and Colburn. After the killing was stopped a whole slew of Army personnel collaborated on giving Thompson, Andreotta and Colburn phony medals to shut them up and cover up the entire affair. 

She may have passed legit or she may have had the benefit of lowered standards/pencil whipping. Ruling out the latter out of hand seems Pollyannaish given what I have witnessed of routine pencil whipping/cover ups and what history shows about extreme examples.

The progressive mantra is that gender is a social construct.  There is no real difference between men and women.  Women are perfectly capable of doing anything a man can do, including pissing over a fence.  Any departure from that belief system is evidence of some type of 'ism or phobia. 

Haven't you seen all those movies where little 95 pound women with arms like pencils whup up on big gym rat guys?

Yeah, I didn't care what my senior NCO wanted, that's why I did so well on my evals.  ?

[26isbest]

2 hours ago, Wyzz Kydd said:

The progressive mantra is that gender is a social construct.  There is no real difference between men and women.  Women are perfectly capable of doing anything a man can do, including pissing over a fence.  Any departure from that belief system is evidence of some type of 'ism or phobia. 

Haven't you seen all those movies where little 95 pound women with arms like pencils whup up on big gym rat guys?

Yeah, I didn't care what my senior NCO wanted, that's why I did so well on my evals.  ?

Hahaha yeah. At least when Trinity was wielding her Desert Eagle in The Matrix it was in a BS virtual simulation world. I had an Mk XIX and that beast weighed about 72 ounces IIRC. Of course the Wachowsky brothers are now calling themselves female so I have to skip the next installment of that. 

[Gunboat1]

The operative theory seems to be: "tell a big enough lie, often enough, and people will believe it. "  Coupled with "severely punish or silence anyone who refutes it with facts or common sense."

 

A lie is still a lie.  Facts are stubborn things.

[Fnfalman]

18 hours ago, Wyzz Kydd said:

The progressive mantra is that gender is a social construct.  There is no real difference between men and women.  Women are perfectly capable of doing anything a man can do, including pissing over a fence.  Any departure from that belief system is evidence of some type of 'ism or phobia. 

Haven't you seen all those movies where little 95 pound women with arms like pencils whup up on big gym rat guys?

Yeah, I didn't care what my senior NCO wanted, that's why I did so well on my evals.  ?

These biological women have proven to have five more hard core stuff than you or me. That’s the fact. 

[Fnfalman]

On 6/29/2020 at 9:49 AM, Wyzz Kydd said:

I suspect I know a lot more about it than you, particularly since you're pretty much a one note Charlie.  Spec Ops experience, Spec Ops experience, ad nauseam.  I think it's best we just ignore each other since I find you pretty boring. 

So, no spec ops experience or even ground combat experience or training but you just knew what it takes to make a fighting man or woman.  

[Fnfalman]

Fact:  this chick will be sporting the SF tab

 

fact:  most if not all posters in this thread, including myself, don’t have any tabs or diplomas to certify our badassery...or dare I say, lack thereof. 

[Gunboat1]

...aaaaaand, the circular evasive argument begins again.  Just like a broken record.  ?

[Wyzz Kydd]

I got tired of it, particularly coming from someone who clearly never served in any capacity.

[TXUSMC]

If she earned her beret, then congrats to her. I trust in the NCO cadre at the SF school to graduate only those who deserve it.

When recruits report to Paris Island or San Diego, or officer candidates report to Quantico, we put them through the process, and if they meet the standard, we give them their eagle, globe, and anchor. They are Marines; however, they find out pretty quickly as soon as they report to their first deployable unit that the training pipeline isn’t the real Marine Corps. There’s a whole new level of respect to be earned there.

This new SF female will find that out when she is assigned to an “A” team. I wish her the best.

[Wyzz Kydd]

2 hours ago, TXUSMC said:

If she earned her beret, then congrats to her. I trust in the NCO cadre at the SF school to graduate only those who deserve it.

When recruits report to Paris Island or San Diego, or officer candidates report to Quantico, we put them through the process, and if they meet the standard, we give them their eagle, globe, and anchor. They are Marines; however, they find out pretty quickly as soon as they report to their first deployable unit that the training pipeline isn’t the real Marine Corps. There’s a whole new level of respect to be earned there.

This new SF female will find that out when she is assigned to an “A” team. I wish her the best.

I’ll second wishing her success. Though I don’t support the idea of politically correct combat troops, I do recognize that individuals who pursue special forces and things like that are very honorable dedicated patriots and deserve to be recognized as such.

[Fnfalman]

https://www.wunc.org/post/first-female-green-beret-set-graduate
 

it’s official. July 9th, 2020 will be the day this badass GI Jane officially donning her Green Beret. She’s the first but she won’t be the last. 
 

obama may have the first chicks graduating Ranger School first but The Donald will be remembered for having the first officially qualified Special Forces woman.  Who knows, with MAGA2020, we might even see a biological female SEAL. 

[26isbest]

4 hours ago, Fnfalman said:

https://www.wunc.org/post/first-female-green-beret-set-graduate
 

it’s official. July 9th, 2020 will be the day this badass GI Jane officially donning her Green Beret. She’s the first but she won’t be the last. 
 

obama may have the first chicks graduating Ranger School first but The Donald will be remembered for having the first officially qualified Special Forces woman.  Who knows, with MAGA2020, we might even see a biological female SEAL. 

Secretary of Defense Panetta* made the policy change at the behest of his boss, President Obama**, in 2013.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/panetta-to-lift-ban-on-women-in-combat/ 

*A civilian

**Another civilian, he was Grand Poobah of US military policy setters at the time.

Edited July 2, 2020 by 26isbest

[Wyzz Kydd]

2 hours ago, 26isbest said:

Secretary of Defense Panetta* made the policy change at the behest of his boss, President Obama**, in 2013.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/panetta-to-lift-ban-on-women-in-combat/ 

*A civilian

**Another civilian, he was Grand Poobah of US military policy setters at the time.

But neither of those guys were SF! How could either of them possibly be qualified to make the decision to put woman in those roles when they have zero SF experience??

[Historian]

I bet she's going to have a very interesting time in the army.

Bet she ends up in intelligence.

 

[Gunboat1]

45 minutes ago, Historian said:

I bet she's going to have a very interesting time in the army.

Bet she ends up in intelligence.

 

She won't be carrying a rifle and ruck for long.  Reality will take its toll.  She'll make a fine poster child for PC, though.

[Fnfalman]

On 7/2/2020 at 3:11 AM, 26isbest said:

Secretary of Defense Panetta* made the policy change at the behest of his boss, President Obama**, in 2013.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/panetta-to-lift-ban-on-women-in-combat/ 

*A civilian

**Another civilian, he was Grand Poobah of US military policy setters at the time.

And Mattis; not a civilian, still KEPT the policy. 

why are you second guessing Mattis?  Do you claim to have better military prowess than the Warrior Monk Saint Mattis of Quantico?

[Fnfalman]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:44 AM, Gunboat1 said:

She won't be carrying a rifle and ruck for long.  Reality will take its toll.  She'll make a fine poster child for PC, though.

I’m willing to bet that she can outperform you. 

[Fnfalman]

On 7/2/2020 at 5:57 AM, Historian said:

I bet she's going to have a very interesting time in the army.

Bet she ends up in intelligence.

 

All of the A-team types are involved in intelligence. 

[Fnfalman]

On 7/2/2020 at 5:44 AM, Wyzz Kydd said:

But neither of those guys were SF! How could either of them possibly be qualified to make the decision to put woman in those roles when they have zero SF experience??

Nor is Trump yet he’s making the decision to have this woman getting The Tab. 
 

But I’m guessing that you voted for abd will be voting for Trump, right?

[Historian]

2 hours ago, Fnfalman said:

All of the A-team types are involved in intelligence. 

Right.  And i bet she will excel at it.

[26isbest]

8 hours ago, Fnfalman said:

And Mattis; not a civilian, still KEPT the policy. 

why are you second guessing Mattis?  Do you claim to have better military prowess than the Warrior Monk Saint Mattis of Quantico?

Since you seem to be confused at the concept of civilian control of the US military here is an article that was published by the DOD*. Hopefully after you read it you might understand the concept of civilian control of the military. Or you can show it to someone else so they can read it and explain the concept to you.

http://archive.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=45870

*DOD is an acronym for Department Of Defense, it is an agency led by a civilian whose title is Secretary Of Defense.