What is a good 38 Spl. round for short barrel revolver?

[Borg warner]

Underwood 150 grain hardcast. It's a non-Plus+P load but develops an honest 850 fps out of the short barrel. Recoil is tolerable even in an airweight gun. More recoil than target wadcutters but better performance and less recoil than most Plus+P loads.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/products/38-special-150-grain-lead-wadcutter?variant=18785707556921

Edited May 29, 2019 by Borg warner

[fastbolt]

The "answer" to this depends on at least a few things, both shooter and gun related.

At the very least, is the snub someone has in mind rated for the use of +P?

Also, is the shooter's technique and skillset "rated" for +P?

Nowadays, when it comes to the use of +P loads in my assorted +P capable .38/.357 snubs, I usually load use Rem 125gr +P Golden Sabre, Speer 135gr +P Gold Dot or Winchester 130gr +P RA38B (same as PDX1).

Why? Because when I've seen the results of those loads used in either 4LD or Heavy Cloth gel testing (using organic gel), they've pretty much performed similarly and acceptably for my anticipated needs.

I have one snub, a 37-2DAO Airweight, in which I will only use standard pressure loads. My typical loads have been either Federal's 110gr Hydra-Shok or Winchester's 110gr Silvertip. I did pick up some Hornady American Gunner 125gr XTP, but only because they were the only 125gr JHP I could find in standard pressure. Maybe they'll deform or expand at low velocity, and maybe they won't. My current preferred standard pressure load, though, is the Hornady Critical Defense 110gr FTX for that older designed Airweight. It's very easy shooting, with less muzzle blast than the Fed or Win loads, and has demonstrated itself to be a tack-driver in my Airweight and one of my M&P 340's. I'm cautiously optimistic the FTX JHP might expand, at least a bit, but I haven't personally seen the results of any gel testing done using organic gel blocks and either 2 or 4 layers of 14oz denim.

There's still something to be said for standard pressure old style all lead loads, though, such as the 158gr LSWC and the 148gr target WC. Controllable and accurate for most folks ... but they will lead the barrel and charge holes.

I've still got some older Fed 158gr Nyclad LSWC +P,  as well as both the Rem and Win versions of the all-lead LSWCHP +P (also referred to as a LHP, at times). I don't use them as much anymore, as some of the newer designed JHP's have been tweaked to offer decent performance in short barrels and might better resist plugging. Maybe.

[Moshe]

I ordered some +p .38 Gold Dots.  I am a huge fan of Gold Dots, simply because except for Ranger LEO Ammo, I was always issued Gold Dots, and they worked well.

[DrB]

On 5/28/2019 at 7:04 PM, fastbolt said:

The "answer" to this depends on at least a few things, both shooter and gun related.

At the very least, is the snub someone has in mind rated for the use of +P?

Also, is the shooter's technique and skillset "rated" for +P? 

 

Yes and Yes to answer the questions.  In the early 70's we used to load hollow based wadcutters upside down.  Can't remember what the load data and powder was though.  I'm thinking it was something like a 148 grain wadcutter over  2.7 grains of Bullseye. Don't quote me there though....  It's been many years..

Dave..

[fastbolt]

1 hour ago, DrB said:

Yes and Yes to answer the questions.  In the early 70's we used to load hollow based wadcutters upside down.  Can't remember what the load data and powder was though.  I'm thinking it was something like a 148 grain wadcutter over  2.7 grains of Bullseye. Don't quote me there though....  It's been many years..

Dave..

I remember when that was all the rage then, too.

The problem was when the reversed hollow base wadcutters would be more susceptible to keyholing while enroute to a target. As I recall, it sometimes took very little velocity change to produce this result, and that could mean barrel length might become important, too. Then, there was the softness of WC's used.

Remember the period when the 200gr RN Super Police .38SPL occurred?

[DrB]

15 minutes ago, fastbolt said:

Remember the period when the 200gr RN Super Police .38SPL occurred?

Yep,  think I may have some still sitting around here somewhere.  Those were the days.......

I carried a Detective Special most all my life since the 70's.  Posted some pictures before of it.  Got the New Colt Cobras just because....  Needless to say I am not a fan of the plastic guns, but I do own them..  I still like cold steel resting by my side..

Dave..

[DrB]

2 hours ago, DrB said:

Yes and Yes to answer the questions

Say Fastbolt, you were around during the Lee E. Jurras days then? and the Super Vel Ammo days ??  I still have some of that original stuff.  That was some hot crap back then.  Light bullets, high velocity....  

Dave..

[fastbolt]

3 hours ago, DrB said:

Say Fastbolt, you were around during the Lee E. Jurras days then? and the Super Vel Ammo days ??  I still have some of that original stuff.  That was some hot crap back then.  Light bullets, high velocity....  

Dave..

Yep, but it was before I entered LE. I was heavily into handloading back then. 

[Wishoot]

Bought a couple boxes of 110gr Critical Defense (Not +P) and shot them at the range today.

I'm sold. 

While recoil is still noticeable in my 637 Airweight J-Frame, it's MUCH more tolerable than the 135 +P Gold Dots.  Follow up shots were a breeze and I was able to finally achieve center-mass rapid fire shots at 10 yards.  

They may not be Thor's Hammer, but they're accurate and easier to shoot than the 135's.  

[fastbolt]

26 minutes ago, Wishoot said:

Bought a couple boxes of 110gr Critical Defense (Not +P) and shot them at the range today.

I'm sold. 

While recoil is still noticeable in my 637 Airweight J-Frame, it's MUCH more tolerable than the 135 +P Gold Dots.  Follow up shots were a breeze and I was able to finally achieve center-mass rapid fire shots at 10 yards.  

They may not be Thor's Hammer, but they're accurate and easier to shoot than the 135's.  

Being able to make your intended hits at a reasonable rate of fire, controllably, and especially out to 10yds (meaning pretty much close to 2 full-size car lengths) probably puts you over the hump. There's no shortage of folks who seem unable to do better then create "beach ball" size groups at 7-10yds with their snubs at anything more than really slow-fire.

Edited June 5, 2019 by fastbolt

[DrB]

Picked up some .38 +P Federal Micro 138 grain HST's.  These remind me of the Hollow Based Wadcutters we all used to reload upside down way back when.  I'm old school so I will give these a try.

Dave.

[Borg warner]

4 hours ago, DrB said:

Picked up some .38 +P Federal Micro 138 grain HST's.  These remind me of the Hollow Based Wadcutters we all used to reload upside down way back when.  I'm old school so I will give these a try.

Dave.

Back in the seventies I had a 3 inch Chief's special that I carried with the original Hydra-shock 38 special ammo. It was essentially a reversed hollow based wadcutter with thicker walls and a post in the middle. They wer seated flush with the case mouth just like regular wadcutters.

I used to test reversed HBWC's in wet newspaper and they wouldn't always "Mushroom". Often times the thin outer sections would just shear off or fold inwards. The HST's are jacketed to prevent this from happening.

Here is a picture of the original 38 special Hydra-shok ammo made before Federal Federal bought the rights to Tom Burzynski's Hydra-Shok design. I remember the red box.

 

[DrB]

A  couple of my crappy photos of the Federal HST.

Dave..

 

 

[DrB]

While I was at the store this morning picking up some lowers,  I picked up a couple boxes of Speer Gold Dot Personal Protection Short Barrel to try out. 135 Grain +P.

Dave..

[Moshe]

I have some of the modern version if I haven't shot it up over the years.  Essentially, a hollow point with spike in the middle.

[fastbolt]

On 6/7/2019 at 2:30 PM, Borg warner said:

Back in the seventies I had a 3 inch Chief's special that I carried with the original Hydra-shock 38 special ammo. It was essentially a reversed hollow based wadcutter with thicker walls and a post in the middle. They wer seated flush with the case mouth just like regular wadcutters.

I used to test reversed HBWC's in wet newspaper and they wouldn't always "Mushroom". Often times the thin outer sections would just shear off or fold inwards. The HST's are jacketed to prevent this from happening.

Here is a picture of the original 38 special Hydra-shok ammo made before Federal Federal bought the rights to Tom Burzynski's Hydra-Shok design. I remember the red box.

 

 

Yep, I remember those.

I no longer have any of the original Hydra-Shok left from those days except for a single (full) Ammo Wallet of the .45ACP version.