FED raises rates, markets plunge

[Al Czervik]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6513257/FED-DEFIES-Trump-hikes-rates-despite-presidents-unceasing-attacks.html

 

Federal Reserve hikes interest rates in defiance of Trump - and its chair tells president 'nothing will deter us' from more raises as share prices plunge after move

• The Federal Reserve announced its decision on rates after extraordinary public pressure from the president 
• Hike of 0.25 per cent 
• Benchmark rate at 2.5 per cent 
• Said more rate increases were appropriate 
• News wiped away morning 350 point gain in the Dow 
• Powell said 'political considerations play no role whatsoever in our discussions' 
• Said 'nothing will deter us from doing what we think is the right thing to do' 
• Trump on Tuesday argued against a hike and urged the Fed to 'feel the market'
• He has also attacked Fed Chair Jerome Powell in interviews and on Twitter
• Decision comes amid a strong job market but some signs of economic cooling
• A volatile market has wiped out 2018's stock market gains
• The move impacts borrowing across the board 

[Dric902]

When you’ve had the growth rate we have enjoyed in the past few quarters....interest rate must increase

the reason they didn’t under Obama is that we didn’t have growth, the rates had to stay near zero just to keep the economy moving

 

not a trump thing, if anything thank Trump for creating the growth that needs a rate increase

 

.

[steve4102]

8 minutes ago, Al Czervik said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6513257/FED-DEFIES-Trump-hikes-rates-despite-presidents-unceasing-attacks.html

 

Federal Reserve hikes interest rates in defiance of Trump - and its chair tells president 'nothing will deter us' from more raises as share prices plunge after move

• The Federal Reserve announced its decision on rates after extraordinary public pressure from the president 
• Hike of 0.25 per cent 
• Benchmark rate at 2.5 per cent 
• Said more rate increases were appropriate 
• News wiped away morning 350 point gain in the Dow 
• Powell said 'political considerations play no role whatsoever in our discussions' 
• Said 'nothing will deter us from doing what we think is the right thing to do' 
• Trump on Tuesday argued against a hike and urged the Fed to 'feel the market'
• He has also attacked Fed Chair Jerome Powell in interviews and on Twitter
• Decision comes amid a strong job market but some signs of economic cooling
• A volatile market has wiped out 2018's stock market gains
• The move impacts borrowing across the board 

They need to destroy the Trump Economy in order to destroy him.

Things are going as planned.  Come March, it will crumble.

[Moeman]

Free casino money can’t go forever. The deficit is expanding like crazy. Trump likes bankruptcy but the US isn’t one of those places for bankruptcy,  so we need the FED to adjust rates. Yeah, anticipating Obama stuff but he had to save capitalism from itself.  The 2008 melt down echoes still.... 

Edited December 20, 2018 by Moeman

[Dric902]

Keeping rates low in order to keep cheering unprecedented, yuuge, bigly growth never before seen evar!!!!

will lead to a bubble that will collapse

 

.

[gwalchmai]

Nobody really knows what the stock market's gonna do, but in the long run it does OK.

 

Oh, and gold. That's always a sure thing.

[Brown Hawk]

2 hours ago, gwalchmai said:

 

Oh, and gold. That's always a sure thing.

The problem I’ve always had with that theory is that in 1840, a good suit from a tailor would cost $20, which was the price of an ounce of gold.  

Today, a good suit from a tailor is about $2000, or the price of an ounce of gold.  Makes me wonder.??

Hawk

[willie-pete]

No wage inflation, no inflation inflation, bear market, housing slowing down, recession expected in 2019/2020; yeah, we need rate hikes.

 

[tous]

The Swamp intends to arrange a recession, whether it is real or not, for the last two years of Mr. Trump's one-term presidency.

Expect the hippie socialists to revive , It's the economy, stupid!

Fake inflation and rising energy costs will eat up any money that the average American realized from the tax cuts; remember, they expire for you, remain for Apple and Google.

He will get no wall, will be unable to point to a good economy, anyone that has ever shaken hands with Mr. Trump will have to endure endless congressional inquisitions.

The House of Representatives will impeach everyone; MSNBC and CNN will become the Impeachment channels and breathlessly wait for the next John Dean to appear..  Geraldo Rivera will go to work for NBC so he can tell us all yet again how we must welcome every soul in the world that speaks Spanish because -- his name is Geraldo Rivera and Anglos are evil.

The House or Representatives will pass endless Medicare-for-all bills that they know will go nowhere and keen and wail that they fixed healthcare, but the evil Republican Senate and fascist Trump thwarted healthcare for all Americans -- and half of Central America.

Welcome to the socialist paradise aborning.

Edited December 20, 2018 by tous

[Moeman]

1 hour ago, tous said:

The Swamp intends to arrange a recession, whether it is real or not, for the last two years of Mr. Trump's one-term presidency.

Expect the hippie socialists to revive , It's the economy, stupid!

Fake inflation and rising energy costs will eat up any money that the average American realized from the tax cuts; remember, they expire for you, remain for Apple and Google.

He will get no wall, will be unable to point to a good economy, anyone that has ever shaken hands with Mr. Trump will have to endure endless congressional inquisitions.

The House of Representatives will impeach everyone; MSNBC and CNN will become the Impeachment channels and breathlessly wait for the next John Dean to appear..  Geraldo Rivera will go to work for NBC so he can tell us all yet again how we must welcome every soul in the world that speaks Spanish because -- his name is Geraldo Rivera and Anglos are evil.

The House or Representatives will pass endless Medicare-for-all bills that they know will go nowhere and keen and wail that they fixed healthcare, but the evil Republican Senate and fascist Trump thwarted healthcare for all Americans -- and half of Central America.

Welcome to the socialist paradise aborning.

But you leave out the debt... which erodes the dollar. Last president to pay down the debt was Clinton. The first to raise the deft since WW2 was Reagan  whom blow it thru the Roof. Let’s circle circle back in a year or so and seen if chapter 11 Donny does good... I’m betting not.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Moeman

[holyjohnson]

going back on the Gold standard and dumping the Fed would solve that problem.....

 

actually i`m okay with the rate raise we have enormous growth right now and it has to be done,i do think raising it now before Christmas was probably bad timing.

[tous]

6 minutes ago, Moeman said:

But you leave out the debt... which erodes the dollar. Last president to pay down the debt was Clinton. The first to raise the deft since WW2 was Reagan  whom blow it thru the Roof. Let’s circle circle back in a year or so and seen if chapter 11 Donny does good... I’m betting not.

I know that you are fixated on having Mr. Trump shoulder the entire debt, but you have blinders on.

Congress creates and passes the budget, not the President.

As I have oft used as an analogy, Congress is like a sixteen-year-old girl at the mall with her daddy's credit card.  She, and Congress will spend more and more on whatever catches their eye because they never get the bill, never have to make the payments.  It isn't real money to them.

 

And like the fictional girl's father, it can only end with a foreclosure on their mortgage, having trucks at the front door loading up their repossessed goods and ultimate bankruptcy.

Be prepared for Weimar Republic-like inflation and the collapse of the entire US economy, but first, the government will 're-value' the currency.

Free education with no teachers because there is no money to pay them.

Free healthcare with no doctors because there is no money to pay them.

Staggering state and federal taxes on money that no one earns anymore.

 

[steve4102]

In 3 Months Fed Chair Jerome Powell Just Destroyed Trump Economy – Dow Lost Over $4 Trillion in Value – FIRE HIM ALREADY!

Since October The Fed has single-handedly dismantled the US economy.  Trump tax at year end 2017 set the economy on fire, so the Fed had to step in and kill the economy or, God forbid, he would get re-elected in 2020!

The Fed is clearly a political machine not working in the interest of President Trump or the American people.

As a result of Fed policies Americans are being bound with massive interest payments on Obama debt for years to come while watching their 401k’s dissolve into thin air.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/12/in-3-months-fed-chair-jerome-powell-just-destroyed-trump-economy-dow-lost-over-4-trillion-in-value-fire-him-already/

[Moeman]

13 hours ago, tous said:

I know that you are fixated on having Mr. Trump shoulder the entire debt, but you have blinders on.

Congress creates and passes the budget, not the President.

As I have oft used as an analogy, Congress is like a sixteen-year-old girl at the mall with her daddy's credit card.  She, and Congress will spend more and more on whatever catches their eye because they never get the bill, never have to make the payments.  It isn't real money to them.

 

And like the fictional girl's father, it can only end with a foreclosure on their mortgage, having trucks at the front door loading up their repossessed goods and ultimate bankruptcy.

Be prepared for Weimar Republic-like inflation and the collapse of the entire US economy, but first, the government will 're-value' the currency.

Free education with no teachers because there is no money to pay them.

Free healthcare with no doctors because there is no money to pay them.

Staggering state and federal taxes on money that no one earns anymore.

 

Tax codes... yes, I know congress spends the dollars but didn’t Trump push thru new tax codes that even in a decent economy inflate the debt? He wants to spend money like a drunken sailors but they spend their own money.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Moeman

[Moeman]

5 hours ago, steve4102 said:

In 3 Months Fed Chair Jerome Powell Just Destroyed Trump Economy – Dow Lost Over $4 Trillion in Value – FIRE HIM ALREADY!

Since October The Fed has single-handedly dismantled the US economy.  Trump tax at year end 2017 set the economy on fire, so the Fed had to step in and kill the economy or, God forbid, he would get re-elected in 2020!

The Fed is clearly a political machine not working in the interest of President Trump or the American people.

As a result of Fed policies Americans are being bound with massive interest payments on Obama debt for years to come while watching their 401k’s dissolve into thin air.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/12/in-3-months-fed-chair-jerome-powell-just-destroyed-trump-economy-dow-lost-over-4-trillion-in-value-fire-him-already/

Trump nominated him along with several people going to jail on the Russian issues... so the common denominator is?

[tous]

1 minute ago, Moeman said:

Tax codes... yes, I know congress spends the dollars but didn’t Trump push thru new tax codes that even in a decent economy inflate the debt? 

To answer that question, we need to consider a few things, primarily, how is the money best spent?  By Congress, the sixteen-year-old girl in the mall on a spending spree, or by the public who is hopefully more responsible.

You posit that raising taxes would, ipso facto, reduce the debt.

When has that been true in the past?  Congress nearly always spends all of the money they have (taxes) and the money they don't have (debt.)

So, what if we leave the money in the hands of the public?

The Swamp and the professional liars will exclaim that the average American is just too stupid to be allowed to keep the money they earn, whereas they, the elite, are somehow blessed with wisdom beyond that capable of Main Street.

I mean, those dumb voters will spend their money on ridiculous things like food.

 

As noted, the bill will come due some day.

NB higher interest rates make it easier to sell debt (bonds,) no?

And how does the government fund the debt (borrow money?)

Why by selling bonds.

[Moeman]

4 hours ago, tous said:

To answer that question, we need to consider a few things, primarily, how is the money best spent?  By Congress, the sixteen-year-old girl in the mall on a spending spree, or by the public who is hopefully more responsible.

You posit that raising taxes would, ipso facto, reduce the debt.

When has that been true in the past?  Congress nearly always spends all of the money they have (taxes) and the money they don't have (debt.)

So, what if we leave the money in the hands of the public?

The Swamp and the professional liars will exclaim that the average American is just too stupid to be allowed to keep the money they earn, whereas they, the elite, are somehow blessed with wisdom beyond that capable of Main Street.

I mean, those dumb voters will spend their money on ridiculous things like food.

 

As noted, the bill will come due some day.

NB higher interest rates make it easier to sell debt (bonds,) no?

And how does the government fund the debt (borrow money?)

Why by selling bonds.

So, bottom line... grab now and screw the future generations? I was brought up with values that you want your kids and grandkids left better off than you.

[tehan2]

4 hours ago, tous said:

The Swamp and the professional liars will exclaim that the average American is just too stupid to be allowed to keep the money they earn, whereas they, the elite, are somehow blessed with wisdom beyond that capable of Main Street.

It's obvious that Congress has a better grasp on financial matter and budgeting.

If I pay you $174,000 a year, would you have a net worth of $10's of millions of dollars in 4-6 years?   Of course not, the American citizen doesn't understand money magic like our elected officials.  It only makes sense they decide how to use your money, they do so well with their own....

[tous]

Thanks for a most interesting discussion, amigos.

[PATCHMAN]

At the beginning of this week I was looking at whether to put money into the market or put the same money into treasuries.  Today I decided to put the money into the market. The 10-year T-notes just isn't paying enough (I'd like 4% or more) and likely won't.    

[Moeman]

On 12/19/2018 at 4:58 PM, gwalchmai said:

Nobody really knows what the stock market's gonna do, but in the long run it does OK.

 

Oh, and gold. That's always a sure thing.

$55000 an ounce from TOS?

[crockett]

I posted the DOW chart below some 6 weeks ago in my Day Trading thread. The thin dark red trendlines and the red arrow are mine. This was my prediction.

 

 

 

 

And here we are 6 weeks later. Downtrend exactly within my drawn trendlines. It's a classic Double Top Reversal:

 

 

 

 

Since today we are in freefall because we broke the support at 23,300. The next major support level that should catch us in the end is at 15.300, which was the consolidation phase in 2014 / 2015. After the 7% drop in just one week that's another 30% to go.

 

 

PS: the last 7% in one week drop was right before the 2007 / 2008 crash.

You do the math.

As I have said before: pull out what ever you can. I'm not holding anything over night for the past 2 months. Only shorting and scalping.

Edited December 22, 2018 by crockett

[fortyofforty]

This is when I make my money.  I buy all the way down.  Doorbuster sale time!