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When did we stop being the United States?


crockett
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12 minutes ago, Batesmotel said:

We stopped being united with the McCarthyism era. It was the beginning of accusations and division. 

Hmmm something worth thinking over... he was a grandstanding drunk.

ya know we had the bomb due mostly thru Jewish refugees, and a couple were commies and gave away the recipe.

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2 hours ago, Moeman said:

Hmmm something worth thinking over... he was a grandstanding drunk.

ya know we had the bomb due mostly thru Jewish refugees, and a couple were commies and gave away the recipe.

McCarthy was on the right track.  The State Dept and other branches of the government were full of Communist sympathizers and fellow travelers.  Notice where most of the criticism of McCarthy comes from over the past 40 years?  Hollywood.  What does that tell you? 

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3 hours ago, Dric902 said:

I think the war between the states may have been a clue

 

.

This.  

 

We used to be THESE united States of America.  Not THE United States.  We were founded upon being independent sovereign states who joined together for a common defense against others, not in our club along with a few other benefits of being in the union.   The idea that any of those sovereign states lost their sovereignty by joining the union was a foreign concept.  Of course, they could choose to leave if they so desired. 

Post-Civil war the states and her citizens became subjects of the Federal Government.

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3 hours ago, Dric902 said:

I think the war between the states may have been a clue

 

.

This.  

 

We used to be THESE united States of America.  Not THE United States.  We were founded upon being independent sovereign states who joined together for a common defense against others, not in our club along with a few other benefits of being in the union.   The idea that any of those sovereign states lost their sovereignty by joining the union was a foreign concept.  Of course, they could choose to leave if they so desired. 

Post-Civil war the states and her citizens became subjects of the Federal Government.

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1 hour ago, norton said:

McCarthy was on the right track.  The State Dept and other branches of the government were full of Communist sympathizers and fellow travelers.  Notice where most of the criticism of McCarthy comes from over the past 40 years?  Hollywood.  What does that tell you? 

Correct.  And it was the time of the Iron Curtain and Stalin getting the bomb.  Hollywood was hit with the blacklist, and a lot of people there were targeted by McCarthy after he started believing his own press, so a lot were innocent, at least of intent if not of leaning that way.  Remember that most at that time were buying that the Great Depression had never hit the Soviets.  

Hawk

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10 minutes ago, Cali-Glock said:

This.  

 

We used to be THESE united States of America.  Not THE United States.  We were founded upon being independent sovereign states who joined together for a common defense against others, not in our club along with a few other benefits of being in the union.   The idea that any of those sovereign states lost their sovereignty by joining the union was a foreign concept.  Of course, they could choose to leave if they so desired. 

Post-Civil war the states and her citizens became subjects of the Federal Government.

I’m sorry, but not correct.  The Federal Givernment didn’t become the power we see today until FDR came along.  After the Civil War, the state’s pretty much went along as before until then.  

Remember that before the Constitution, the government was a (gasp) Confederation where states were separated by banks and tariffs and other things that totally independent countries do.  The Founding Fathers specifically rejected the ability of the states to secede, as they didn’t want to Balkanize the country.  

Also note that the constitution of the CSA also did not have that provision, and in late 1864 North Carolina and Alabama tried to secede, Jefferson Davis threatened to send troops to prevent it.  

Hawk 

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The United States of America was born in discord. During the rebellion from Great Britton thier were groups of British sympothiseors along with rebels and a large number of people who generally did not care. We went through the Articles of Confederation that turned into an unworkable mess. Then during a constitutional convention we fought about strong versus weak federal government. In order to work through the Constitution 10 amendments to limit the government were required. I don't believe we are all truly united. The idea of United is an ideal not a requirement. We are generally a self-absorbed group that thinks first of ourselves, then family, friends, local area, State then the United States of America. Our nation was born divided and probably always will be.
I believe the 24 hour news coverage and constant bombardment by national news just emphasizes our divides. Remember the federal government was not something most people considered as important for thier daily lives until recently. State and local government was and still should be more important for an individuals life.
The problem I see is that people want a federal answer for problems that should never have been part of the Federal Government. It may be to late to constrain the Federal Government but I can always hope.
Just for the record Democrats race as fast as possible to expand the Federal Government, Republicans follow them but more slowly. Both expand the Federal Government's reach into our daily lives.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk

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The Communist Party and membership therein was declared to be illegal in 1954 (Communist Control Act.)

I don't agree with anything the communists propose, but I oppose banning political parties and declaring points of view as subversive with even more vigor.

Those of you that entered the military in my era (early 1970s)  will remember the 400-page list of so-called subversive organizations that you had to affirm that you were not a member of.

A government that must coerce a loyalty oath from the governed is to be feared above all else.

Edited by tous
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Okay, to get back to the present, while many of the answers here show rough times, they were brought about by legitimate differences, and were settled and basically not a problem today.

The problems that we see today are based on two events in the more recent past.  

The first was the impeachment of Bill Clinton for perjury.  At that time, a lot of Democrat supporters started looking to get even, even though it caused him to lose his ability to argue in Federal Court because of the perjury.  

The second event was the Bush-Gore 2000 election in Florida, where the US Supreme Court basically had to force the Florida elections people to follow their own election laws.  Democrat people still try to call that a stolen election.  

Those two things basically are the reason behind a lot of the ill-feeling today, a desire for revenge for perceived injuries.  Stupid, but real.  

Hawk 

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2 hours ago, norton said:

McCarthy was on the right track.  The State Dept and other branches of the government were full of Communist sympathizers and fellow travelers.  Notice where most of the criticism of McCarthy comes from over the past 40 years?  Hollywood.  What does that tell you? 

It means that you should crack open history books. Blaming, Hollywood is comical. 

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I believe the decline in the greatness of America is directly attributable to the increase in secularism.  Dennis Prager agrees...

https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/08/28/explaining-the-left-part-iii-leftism-as-secular-religion/

One of the most important books of the 20th century—it remains a best-seller 59 years after it was first published—is “Man’s Search for Meaning” by Viktor Frankl.

Marx saw man’s primary drive as economic, and Freud saw it as sex. But Frankl believed—correctly, in my opinion—that the greatest drive of man is meaning.

One can be poor and chaste and still be happy. But one cannot be bereft of meaning and be happy—no matter how rich or how sexually fulfilled one may be.

The greatest provider of meaning for the vast majority of human beings has been religion. In the West, Christianity (and on a smaller scale, Judaism) provided nearly all people with the Bible, a divine or divinely inspired text to guide their lives; a religious community; answers to life’s fundamental questions; and, above all, meaning: A good God governs the universe; death does not end everything; and human beings were purposefully created.

 

In addition, Christianity gave Christians a project: Spread the Good News, and bring the world to Christ. And Judaism gave Jews a project: Live by God’s laws of ethics and holiness and be “a light unto the nations.”

All this has disappeared for most Westerners. The Bible is regarded as myth, silly at best, malicious at worst—there is no God, certainly not the morality-giving and judging God of the Bible; there is no afterlife; human beings are a purposeless coincidence with no more intrinsic purpose than anything else in the universe. In short: This is all there is.

So, if the need for meaning is the greatest of all human needs and that which supplied meaning no longer does, what are millions of Westerners supposed to do?

The answer is obvious: Find meaning elsewhere. But where? Church won’t provide it. Nor will marriage and family—increasingly, secular individuals in the West eschew marriage, and even more do not have children. It turns out, to the surprise of many, that marriage and children are religious values, not human instincts.

In the West today, love and marriage (and children) go together like a horse and a carriage for faithful Catholics, Orthodox Jews, religious Mormons, and evangelical Protestants—not for the secular. I know many religious families with more than four children; I do not know one secular family with more than four children (and the odds are you don’t either).

The answer to the great dearth of meaning left by the death of biblical religion in the West is secular religion. The first two great secular substitutes were communism and Nazism. The first provided hundreds of millions of people with meaning; the latter provided most Germans and Austrians with meaning.

In particular, both ideologies provided the intellectual class with meaning. No groups believed in communism and Nazism more than intellectuals. Like everyone else, secular intellectuals need meaning, and when this need was combined with intellectuals’ love of ideas (especially new ideas—”new” is almost erotic in the power of its appeal to secular intellectuals), communism and Nazism became potent ideologies.

With the fall of communism and the awareness of the extent of the communist mass murder (about 100 million noncombatants) and mass enslavement (virtually all individuals in communist countries—except for Communist Party leaders—are essentially enslaved), communism, or at least the word “communism,” fell into disrepute.

So, what were secular intellectuals to do once communism became “the god that failed”?

The answer was to create another left-wing secular religion. And that is what leftism is: a secular meaning-giver to supplant Christianity. Left-wing religious expressions include Marxism, communism, socialism, feminism, and environmentalism.

Leftism’s guiding principles—notwithstanding the principles of those Christians and Jews who claim to be religious yet hold leftist views—are the antitheses of Judaism and Christianity’s guiding principles.

Judaism and Christianity hold that people are not basically good. Leftism holds that people are basically good. Therefore, Judaism and Christianity believe evil comes from human nature, and leftism believes evil comes from capitalism, religion, the nation-state (i.e. nationalism), corporations, the patriarchy, and virtually every other traditional value.

Judaism and Christianity hold that utopia on Earth is impossible—it will only come in God’s good time as a Messianic age or in the afterlife. Leftism holds that utopia is to be created here on Earth—and as soon as possible. That is why leftists find America so contemptible. They do not compare it to other nations but to a utopian ideal—a society with no inequality, no racism, no differences between the sexes (indeed, no sexes), and no greed in which everything important is obtained free.

Judaism and Christianity believe God and the Bible are to instruct us on how to live a good life and how the heart is the last place to look for moral guidance. Leftists have contempt for anyone who is guided by the Bible and its God, and substitute the heart and feelings for divine instruction.

There may be a clash of civilizations between the West and Islam, but the biggest clash of civilizations is between the West and the left.

 

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41 minutes ago, Presguy said:

I live in Thousand Oaks, California. A few days ago, I lost one friend, another neighbor, and a professional acquaintance to a shooting. Within 24 hours of that, two massive wildfires started on either side of my town, burning homes and prompting evacuations (mine included). By yesterday evening, a major fiber cable burned through, cutting off internet access to the majority of the county - homes and businesses alike.

Thankfully, only my car and some rental property was damaged. 

In the midst of evacuating, checking in on friends, helping neighbors, and making plans to attend funerals, I observed the following:

1) Scores of citizens, lining up three deep with flags on overpasses to honor the procession carrying the body of fallen Sgt. Helus.

2) Vigils and prayer gatherings of all faiths, and open to all faiths, at parks, churches, and schools around the area.

3) A major shopping mall owner opening vacant stores to be used as evaction sites for people and pets. Within hours, they were getting car loads of food, water, pet supplies, linens, and air mattresses dropped off.

4) Churches, synagogues, and our sikh temple opening their doors to provide shelter and food.

5) Three blood drives, which were so heavily filled that, within minutes of opening they needed to extend hours and add extra days.

6) Groups of scouts bring coolers of drinks and boxes of snacks to first responders.

7) Caravans of utiliy trucks getting honks and cheers of support as the rolled through the streets.

8 ) Neighbors coming out of their homes , walking their dogs, stopping, talking, inviting one another in, talking, and hugging.

9) Dozens of online groups, filled with offers of everything from babysitting, places to stay, offers to deliver meals, and people offering trucks to help evacuees, and fundraisers for every cause.

EDIT to add: 10) The amazing work done by emergency services. There are not words to express how moving and impressive it is to see the response. Fire departments coming to us from hundreds of miles away. Law enforcement from nearby coming to backfill our own, and handle regular duties as we deal with the loss of Sgt. Helus. Mobile command posts springing up instantly, thanks to careful planning and coordination. Tons of relevant and helpful emergency communications and texts about everything from evacuations, shelters, and road closures, to the locations of Chaplains and support animals.

I'm sure there's plenty I'm forgetting.

Americans love bickering over politics - we always have, it's nothing new, and we should be grateful we have the freedom to do it. What I saw today, and what I've seen in the past while serving this great nation in both the Air Force and a Sheriff's Deputy - *that* is what this country is about. 

Don't watch bickering loudmouths on the internet, and think that's what we're about. Just like the shooter a few nights ago, you can always find a broken person. We, as people, all need to be better than that.

Yep! That is one great, honest post. I have reached out to friends with an open door, fridge etc. so far none need it but this horrific fire isn’t done. One of my best friends was on the overpass with a flag. And I expect some donkey to post let CA burn. Oh, wait there was a Twitter...

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1 hour ago, Presguy said:

I live in Thousand Oaks, California. A few days ago, I lost one friend, another neighbor, and a professional acquaintance to a shooting. Within 24 hours of that, two massive wildfires started on either side of my town, burning homes and prompting evacuations (mine included). By yesterday evening, a major fiber cable burned through, cutting off internet access to the majority of the county - homes and businesses alike.

Thankfully, only my car and some rental property was damaged. 

In the midst of evacuating, checking in on friends, helping neighbors, and making plans to attend funerals, I observed the following:

1) Scores of citizens, lining up three deep with flags on overpasses to honor the procession carrying the body of fallen Sgt. Helus.

2) Vigils and prayer gatherings of all faiths, and open to all faiths, at parks, churches, and schools around the area.

3) A major shopping mall owner opening vacant stores to be used as evaction sites for people and pets. Within hours, they were getting car loads of food, water, pet supplies, linens, and air mattresses dropped off.

4) Churches, synagogues, and our sikh temple opening their doors to provide shelter and food.

5) Three blood drives, which were so heavily filled that, within minutes of opening they needed to extend hours and add extra days.

6) Groups of scouts bring coolers of drinks and boxes of snacks to first responders.

7) Caravans of utiliy trucks getting honks and cheers of support as the rolled through the streets.

8 ) Neighbors coming out of their homes , walking their dogs, stopping, talking, inviting one another in, talking, and hugging.

9) Dozens of online groups, filled with offers of everything from babysitting, places to stay, offers to deliver meals, and people offering trucks to help evacuees, and fundraisers for every cause.

EDIT to add: 10) The amazing work done by emergency services. There are not words to express how moving and impressive it is to see the response. Fire departments coming to us from hundreds of miles away. Law enforcement from nearby coming to backfill our own, and handle regular duties as we deal with the loss of Sgt. Helus. Mobile command posts springing up instantly, thanks to careful planning and coordination. Tons of relevant and helpful emergency communications and texts about everything from evacuations, shelters, and road closures, to the locations of Chaplains and support animals.

I'm sure there's plenty I'm forgetting.

Americans love bickering over politics - we always have, it's nothing new, and we should be grateful we have the freedom to do it. What I saw today, and what I've seen in the past while serving this great nation in both the Air Force and a Sheriff's Deputy - *that* is what this country is about. 

Don't watch bickering loudmouths on the internet, and think that's what we're about. Just like the shooter a few nights ago, you can always find a broken person. We, as people, all need to be better than that.

 

Are you referring to Colion Noir as bickering loudmouth?

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The people I work with are liberals of the first water. We seem to get along fine, as long as the subject of politics are avoided. We are each convinced of our own rightness that it seems to have become an absolute, cut and dry.

in another thread, I am convinced that we are about to be invaded and and that the use of the military is appropriate, another member is just as convinced that it is not. I just can’t see any compromise or midground on the subject. I guess it has to do with fear of invasion and change that follows that. I want people coming here that want to build us up and make us great, like we used to be. Not to bring their problems with them to spread the contamination that “forced” them to leave.

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8 hours ago, Moeman said:

It means that you should crack open history books. Blaming, Hollywood is comical. 

We aren't going to agree on this topic.  For a different perspective on this from the typical Hollywood leftist crowd, I suggest this book.

 

mccarthybkevans.jpg

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