Really lame transmission in a really cool car.

[Silentpoet]

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/08/16/hertz-100th-anniversary-edition-chevrolet-corvette-z06-is-ridiculously-fast-rental-car.html

When you get all excited about a car, then they say automatic. 

[holyjohnson]

get one now because the next Generation is almost guaranteed to be all dual clutch 7 speed automatics.

there`s not a lot of affordable manual trans that will withstand 1,000 AWD h.p,

 

and worse.........a hybrid

[Boogieman]

7 hours ago, Silentpoet said:

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/08/16/hertz-100th-anniversary-edition-chevrolet-corvette-z06-is-ridiculously-fast-rental-car.html

When you get all excited about a car, then they say automatic. 

I understand why they went with a slush box.  Imagine a millennial feeling that their sense of entitlement is all it takes to operate a manual.  They blaming the blown clutch on Trump, racism and the patriarchy.  

[SC Tiger]

7 hours ago, holyjohnson said:

get one now because the next Generation is almost guaranteed to be all dual clutch 7 speed automatics.

there`s not a lot of affordable manual trans that will withstand 1,000 AWD h.p,

 

and worse.........a hybrid

I think those are actually some sort of manual/auto hybrid.  Basically a manual transmission with servos that operate the clutch and shifter.  So they may not be bad.

The dual clutch is a good setup IF you are going to do what the car expects you to do.  Otherwise it can get confused.

[Boogieman]

3 minutes ago, SC Tiger said:

The dual clutch is a good setup IF you are going to do what the car expects you to do.  Otherwise it can get confused.

The wonderful Porsche PDK is annoying a f@ck when driven around town. 

[Silentpoet]

8 hours ago, holyjohnson said:

get one now because the next Generation is almost guaranteed to be all dual clutch 7 speed automatics.

there`s not a lot of affordable manual trans that will withstand 1,000 AWD h.p,

 

and worse.........a hybrid

Probably not in the budget.  I do have my eye on a 94 6 speed that needs some clutch work.

[crockett]

Actually, the new 8-speed automatic paddle-shifts in track mode and when driving accordingly (trans is self learning and on-the-fly adjusting) extremely quickly. Getting close to PDK league. The auto trans is also faster on the 1/8 and 1/4 track. Most importantly, the auto trans / torque converter holds up MUCH better to any kind of engine tuning. A manual / clutch goes out quickly with a proper pro charger setup on board, forcing you to upgrade you manual trans very soon. All that being said, the paddle rev-matcher on the manual version Corvette is already lame AF. It's what you need when 99% of stick drivers can't toe / heel match.

[SC Tiger]

9 minutes ago, crockett said:

Actually, the new 8-speed automatic paddle-shifts in track mode and when driving accordingly (trans is self learning and on-the-fly adjusting) extremely quickly. Getting close to PDK league. The auto trans is also faster on the 1/8 and 1/4 track. Most importantly, the auto trans / torque converter holds up MUCH better to any kind of engine tuning. A manual / clutch goes out quickly with a proper pro charger setup on board, forcing you to upgrade you manual trans very soon. All that being said, the paddle rev-matcher on the manual version Corvette is already lame AF. It's what you need when 99% of stick drivers can't toe / heel match.

I've never been able to do the heel-toe thing.  Probably because I've never driven a car with the right pedal setup.

True three-pedal manual setups seem to be going the way of the dinosaur.  Even in high-end sports cars.  

[crockett]

1 minute ago, SC Tiger said:

I've never been able to do the heel-toe thing.  Probably because I've never driven a car with the right pedal setup.

True three-pedal manual setups seem to be going the way of the dinosaur.  Even in high-end sports cars.  

 

I think many folks are still stuck in a time when an auto trans was truly slow and left the driver with a disconnected feedback, necessary to go fast, or enjoy the ride. I bet that most would step away from this old sentiment if they would experience a PDK auto trans in a current Porsche, anything that Ferrari or Lamborghini as to offer these days, and even the new GM A8 auto trans.

The PDK in the current GT3 RS shifts in about 50 - 60 ms. It is basically instantly. With the paddles and both hands on the wheel you have 100% control, making you much faster, and the experience is quite breathtaking.

 

 

 

[The Hawk]

39 minutes ago, crockett said:

Actually, the new 8-speed automatic paddle-shifts in track mode and when driving accordingly (trans is self learning and on-the-fly adjusting) extremely quickly. Getting close to PDK league. The auto trans is also faster on the 1/8 and 1/4 track. Most importantly, the auto trans / torque converter holds up MUCH better to any kind of engine tuning. A manual / clutch goes out quickly with a proper pro charger setup on board, forcing you to upgrade you manual trans very soon. All that being said, the paddle rev-matcher on the manual version Corvette is already lame AF. It's what you need when 99% of stick drivers can't toe / heel match.

You are exactly correct. I sold my 2013 Corvette with the 6 speed manual tranny a couple years ago and last year I bought a 2016 Corvette with the 8 speed auto tranny. The auto is much quicker. Don't get me wrong, it was fun rowing thru the gears, but I really enjoy punching the throttle now and letting the computer take care of shifting.

[crockett]

10 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

You are exactly correct. I sold my 2013 Corvette with the 6 speed manual tranny a couple years ago and last year I bought a 2016 Corvette with the 8 speed auto tranny. The auto is much quicker. Don't get me wrong, it was fun rowing thru the gears, but I really enjoy punching the throttle now and letting the computer take care of shifting.

 

Talking about the current Vette, I owned a 2016 Z51 with the A8. It was burning 2 quarts of oil every 1,000 miles. I know that there is a bunch of folks having similar issues, especially when they drive it hard with forced high RPM downshifts, on track days, in hot weather, and / or after a soft break-in. What is your experience?

Edited August 17, 2018 by crockett

[The Hawk]

16 minutes ago, crockett said:

 

Talking about the current Vette, I owned a 2016 Z51 with the A8. It was burning 2 quarts of oil every 1,000 miles. I know that there is a bunch of folks having similar issues, especially when they drive it hard with forced high RPM downshifts, on track days, in hot weather, and / or after a soft break-in. What is your experience?

Mine is a 2016 Stingray with the A8 No problems at all. Sorry to hear about your experience. That sucks.

[Moeman]

Autos with paddles to shift gears are the bomb. And yes I can shift.

[crockett]

2 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

Mine is a 2016 Stingray with the A8 No problems at all. Sorry to hear about your experience. That sucks.

 

GM and 8 dealers really let me down on that one. Very long story, had to force GM to buy it back. Really hate it though, because the new Vette is the best performance car for both $55+k and $75+k for the Z06. Everything else costs twice as much, if not (much) more. The handling is truly on-par with the big players. Even the interior is finally a match.

I might look into the new C08 with middle engine and hope that GM finally steps away from the pushrod engine. I also hope they don't come up with a V6 turbo like the stunt Ford pulled off in the GT. They should build a small displacement, high rev V8 with maybe 4.0 liters and BiTurbo it.

[jmohme]

Back in the days when I worked at my fathers auto shop, I was in the wonderful position of helping other peoples money on their hot rods.

One in particular had a really hot 1965 Mustang. The kid spared little expense when he built up the 289 V8. The car had a 4 speed Borg Warner and he turned pretty good ¼ mile times. When he trashed that transmission, I talked him into trying an automatic. his times improveed noticeably and he never went back to a stick.

A manual transmission can make a car fun to drive, but I have no problems with automatics in performance vehicles, or in this case, a Corvette. ?

Edited August 17, 2018 by jmohme

[Boogieman]

37 minutes ago, crockett said:

I might look into the new C08 with middle engine and hope that GM finally steps away from the pushrod engine. 

Once you get away from a pushrod engine they get much taller, heavier, more complex. more expensive and with much higher maintenance.  And more often than not with much worse fuel economy.

[KennyFSU]

I realize that today's automatics can shift way quicker and smoother than a person with a stick but I don't race anymore; I will always favor a manual because of the better driving experience and control.

 

My first car that I learned how to drive was stick, 13 cars later, they all have been manual.

[SC Tiger]

24 minutes ago, Boogieman said:

Once you get away from a pushrod engine they get much taller, heavier, more complex. more expensive and with much higher maintenance.  And more often than not with much worse fuel economy.

I am told that, due to the OHC design, the Ford 4.6L is taller and wider than a Ford 460.

[crockett]

20 minutes ago, Boogieman said:

Once you get away from a pushrod engine they get much taller, heavier, more complex. more expensive and with much higher maintenance.  And more often than not with much worse fuel economy.

 

Taller? The flat 6 from the mentioned Porsche is much flatter than the current pushrod V8 in the Vette.

 

 

Have you seen the new AMG 4 liter V8s in the AMG GT? Not taller at all.

Less maintenance? My NEW Corvette was burning 2 quarts of oil every 1,000. I had to add oil at every gas fill-up, and GM tried to get away with it by claiming that this is within spec, depending on how you drive the car. That right there is the biggest bullshit only a US manufacturer with a long outdated pushrod could come up with. I worked for Benz in R&D back in the 90s. If we would have designed a new engine that burns ANY significant amount of oil, we would have been fired. Not counting a few very recent developments in the C7, GM is still running 20 years behind in many aspects of the industry.

Pulling 450 HP out of a 6.2 liter V8 is nothing to brag about about. The charged Z06 with 650 / 650 is not one wink better.

Just for comparison, and the heck of it: BMW pulled 1,500 HP out of a freakin 4 banger 1.5 liter engine in the early 80s(!) with an engine block that was reused out of street going BMW sedans from the late 60s(!).

The pushrod is a bad joke in the industry.

 

 

[jmohme]

43 minutes ago, Boogieman said:

Once you get away from a pushrod engine they get much taller, heavier, more complex. more expensive and with much higher maintenance.  And more often than not with much worse fuel economy.

Taller yes. Heavier, maybe. more complex, not really. More expensive, only because of R&D/retooling costs. 

As for fuel economy, that would depend on the engines intended purpose. Overhead cam engines tend to be more efficient unless built only to produce more horsepower, and then fuel economy is rarely a consideration.

[crockett]

PS: Try to pull 381 HP out of a 2 liter 4 banger with a pushrod and sell it successfully in street cars. Ain't gonna happen.

CLA AMG 45: average MPG up to 29, while as fast as a C7 Corvette at a lower price point with more room for 4 people.

4 second car that doesn't eat any oil, MUCH better materials and quality, and no outdated engine design.

 

 

Not even a new car / engine anymore. had been around for 5 years.

 

 

[M&P15T]

The regular Z06 can be had with a 7spd manual. Real men drive manuals. ??

[Boogieman]

1 hour ago, crockett said:

 

Taller? The flat 6 from the mentioned Porsche is much flatter than the current pushrod V8 in the Vette.

 

 

Have you seen the new AMG 4 liter V8s in the AMG GT? Not taller at all.

Less maintenance? My NEW Corvette was burning 2 quarts of oil every 1,000. I had to add oil at every gas fill-up, and GM tried to get away with it by claiming that this is within spec, depending on how you drive the car. That right there is the biggest bullshit only a US manufacturer with a long outdated pushrod could come up with. I worked for Benz in R&D back in the 90s. If we would have designed a new engine that burns ANY significant amount of oil, we would have been fired. Not counting a few very recent developments in the C7, GM is still running 20 years behind in many aspects of the industry.

Pulling 450 HP out of a 6.2 liter V8 is nothing to brag about about. The charged Z06 with 650 / 650 is not one wink better.

Just for comparison, and the heck of it: BMW pulled 1,500 HP out of a freakin 4 banger 1.5 liter engine in the early 80s(!) with an engine block that was reused out of street going BMW sedans from the late 60s(!).

The pushrod is a bad joke in the industry.

 

Yep, the AMG mill is externally larger.  Sorry to burst your bubble.  And you got a bad Vette engine.  Sorry about that as well.  Every wonder why hot rodders can slip an LS in place of a 4 banger with plenty of room to spare?  More often than not with only a slight weight gain?  Because all of those extra cams take up a lot of space.  Space that could be used for cubic inches.  GM is fully capable of building multi valve multi cam engines.  They already do.  But under current US laws there's no reason.  In American there's no extra taxes on displacement.  Where as in Europe emissions and economy take a back seat to liters.

And comparing the height a V8 to a Porsche flat 6...really...really?

[Boogieman]

1 hour ago, jmohme said:

Taller yes. Heavier, maybe. more complex, not really. More expensive, only because of R&D/retooling costs. 

As for fuel economy, that would depend on the engines intended purpose. Overhead cam engines tend to be more efficient unless built only to produce more horsepower, and then fuel economy is rarely a consideration.

Well price a multi cam engine of comparable torque to an LT.  I'll wait...go ahead.

Now compare the fuel economy of the various LT's against their multi cam counterparts with equal torque figures.  I'll wait.  

[Boogieman]

57 minutes ago, crockett said:

PS: Try to pull 381 HP out of a 2 liter 4 banger with a pushrod and sell it successfully in street cars. Ain't gonna happen.

CLA AMG 45: average MPG up to 29, while as fast as a C7 Corvette at a lower price point with more room for 4 people.

4 second car that doesn't eat any oil, MUCH better materials and quality, and no outdated engine design.

 

You left out prohibitively expensive to repair out of warranty and some of the highest depreciation in the industry.