The Shame of the Church

[Glocks4Freedom]

https://amgreatness.com/2018/08/15/the-shame-of-the-church/

Makes me think of Dostoyevski.

[Boogieman]

I grew up in New Orleans which is like 90% Catholic though I am not.  Now I'm finding out that a lot (and I mean a lot) of the kids I grew up with had been molested by priests.  And corrupt liberal democrat DA Harry Connick Sr spent his decades long career covering it all up.

[RenoF250]

Yeah, I lived in a small town and I am 90% certain our priest molested a friend of mine.  He had us over once and was WAY to friendly.  I left but those 2 did lots of stuff together.

 

These sorts of things make me agree with the statement in Dante's Inferno that the lowest levels of hell are filled with popes.

[PBCounty]

It's not just the church.  Any kind of organization that mixes youth with adults seems to have a decent share of the activity.  I was in the scouts, as well as Civil Air Patrol.  Whole lot of molestin' going on.  I think I had five adult leaders in my Civil Air Patrol squadron, two were known touchers, and a third got locked up for child porn.  Scouts, a leader in his 20's was spending extra time with some of the neighborhood kids.  Sports?  Man, spend some time around coaches who are having some cocktails together - pretty candid stuff.  Don't even get me started on my school experience - by middle school it was a free for all. 

That said, locally, the churches are not doing themselves any favors.  I have never seen an entity so damn OBSESSED with sleep overs.  I have a number of "churchies" I work with.  They belong to a number of different churches.  All it seems they do is plan or partake in youth sleep overs, "lock ins", overnight trips, etc.  Why are they so obsessed with this?  They don't even drink.  

[G26S239]

3 hours ago, Boogieman said:

I grew up in New Orleans which is like 90% Catholic though I am not.  Now I'm finding out that a lot (and I mean a lot) of the kids I grew up with had been molested by priests.  And corrupt liberal democrat DA Harry Connick Sr spent his decades long career covering it all up.

The father of the musician?

 

Never mind just looked it up.

Edited August 16, 2018 by G26S239

[Boogieman]

6 minutes ago, G26S239 said:

The father of the musician?

 

Never mind just looked it up.

Yeah, when he wasn't protecting pedophiles he was prosecuting black men for crimes he knew they did not commit.  Oh...and blaming Republicans for his and Gov Edwards scheme to sell pardons.  I really hate that animal.

[Oneshotonepill]

I spent 13 years in Catholic school in the GNO area.  I'll never step foot in another confessional.  I spent two weeks as an alter boy, but quit, after begging my parents, because the Monsignor (boss priest) was a violent drunk that would swear at us.  I saw him slap one of the other boys.  There is no doubt in my mind that some of those boys were sexually abused.  They absolutely feared that man.  I didn't stick around long enough to find out.  I have now been Catholicism free for 20 years.  

[Batesmotel]

Not catholic. Went to catholic school. Got the **** beat out of me by nuns. Mother Superior put a stop to it. Then the nuns just had the other kids beat the **** out of me. I got beat every time someone else did something wrong. They thought it was some sort of penance for being a heathen. All I learned in that school was how to fight real dirty. 

[Moeman]

Just pray directly to God, cut out the middle man. Help people when ya can, old people  needs simple things like a ride to a MD and some yard work. Rewarding.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Moeman

[Jade Falcon]

Over the past few years, I've been considering becoming Catholic.  But things like this make me seriously consider other options.

[Maccabeus]

36 minutes ago, Jade Falcon said:

Over the past few years, I've been considering becoming Catholic.  But things like this make me seriously consider other options.

Yes, well, a church heirarchy that looks the other way in the face of such rampant evil can cause one to reconsider.

Humans, both in the church and outside, can end up doing heinous things, but one would like to hope the larger church would stand for truth, righteousness, and morality, not actually assist the offenders.

There are other Christian traditions that not only have less extra-biblical add ons to their teaching, but also take church disciple and clergy accountability more seriously. 

[Boogieman]

1 hour ago, Jade Falcon said:

Over the past few years, I've been considering becoming Catholic.  But things like this make me seriously consider other options.

In WWII the Catholic Church sided with the Nazi's.  Because it was in their best interest.  

[Oneshotonepill]

I got in trouble in sixth grade because I drew a picture of Sister Mary Ann.  She thought that I over-exaggerated the mustache, but it was an honest and accurate rendering.  I didn't get paddled, that time, because the principal couldn't keep his bearing.

[Oneshotonepill]

1 hour ago, Moeman said:

Just pray directly to God

He's never listened to me.  Not once.  So now it's mutual. 

[Maccabeus]

17 hours ago, Boogieman said:

In WWII the Catholic Church sided with the Nazi's.  Because it was in their best interest.  

This is the conventional understanding and much has been written toward that end.

A few decades ago, I was in a conversation with a historian on this period in Roman Catholic history, although, not a Catholic himself, and he had another opinion.  He had marshalled evidence that argued, basically, that the outward show of Rome and Pope Pius was an appearance of support, but that Pius was actually supporting a behind the scenes effort to smuggle Jews and others out of Germany.  This historian argued based on his research and data that without the outward appeasement, the Catholic Church would have been under heavier scrutiny and their efforts wouldn't have been as successful.  He had done some writing on this issue.  I don't recall the specifics or the numbers that were cited.

Since hearing this, I've tried to find a paper or journal article on this position to reassess the strength of these claims, but haven't been able to find his work on online.

I don't have a dog in the fight.  Just sharing a minority opinion from one particular scholar.

[Maccabeus]

17 hours ago, Oneshotonepill said:

He's never listened to me.  Not once.  So now it's mutual. 

I'm sorry to hear that.  Prayer is one side of a conversation and, as you have experienced, it doesn't always result in us getting what we want.   

[Boogieman]

23 minutes ago, Maccabeus said:

This is the conventional understanding and much has been written toward that end.

A few decades ago, I was in a conversation with a historian on this period in Roman Catholic history, although, not a Catholic himself, and he had another opinion.  He had marshalled evidence that argued, basically, that the outward show of Rome and Pope Pius was an appearance of support, but that Pius was actually supporting a behind the scenes effort to smuggle Jews and others out of Germany.  This historian argued based on his research and data that without the outward appeasement, the Catholic Church would have been under heavier scrutiny and their efforts wouldn't have been as successful.  He had done some writing on this issue.  I don't recall the specifics or the numbers that were cited.

Since hearing this, I've tried to find a paper or journal article on this position to reassess the strength of these claims, but haven't been able to find his work on online.

I don't have a dog in the fight.  Just sharing a minority opinion from one particular scholar.

I've heard that as well.  And I to have had no luck finding corroborating evidence.  When Pope John Paul II apologized for the Catholic Church's part in the Holocaust he never mentioned any behind the scenes support.  

[inthefrey]

(Martin Luther 10/13/1517 ) "........I told you that Pope was crooked!...."

I guess this brings Catholic "indulgences" to a whole new level.....

But of course, ALL CHRISTIANS will be lumped together and targeted my the liberal media...............

[johnbt]

What, you think the Pope is going to step in and put a stop to the rampant, ongoing child abuse like the Pope stopped the Spanish Inquisition? 

I was a Methodist kid in a row house in a heavily Catholic neighborhood in Baltimore in the '50s and early '60s and I heard about some of the Priests that liked to play grabass with the altar boys. If if knew, the Bishop and the Pope had to have known. But nothing changed and the dollars kept rolling in.

Pfui. They need to disband the Catholic Church and start over.

[Swampfox762]

I was brought up Catholic entirely in the Air Force diocese of the catholic Church.  I don't think there was much of that back in the day of going to church on Air Force Bases.  I sure never saw any of it.  I basically left the church when I left home at 18.  THIS stuff is just SICK.  AND...This Pope will destroy what is left of Catholicism.  If I hadn't left, I sure would have when he became pope.  He is as bad for the Catholic Church as obozo was for America!!

[OV1kenobi]

21 hours ago, Jade Falcon said:

Over the past few years, I've been considering becoming Catholic.  But things like this make me seriously consider other options.

Switched from Catholic Lite (Church of England) to Roman Catholic twenty years ago, and never regretted it.

Do what makes you happy.

That said, with any organization there is always a risk of abuse of some sort or another. That is the unfortunate nature of things.

This, however, is particularly tragic because of not only the abuse in a sexual nature (most terrible) by a man in authority  but specifically because of the violation of the sacred and holy vows of the priesthood.

All the more damning, because those priests were trusted men. Trusted not only because they were men of authority in general, but men held to a higher standard as spiritual leaders.

They violated the ultimate trust, that of being a representative of God to those (especially children) seeking answers to questions of life and faith.

Truly, those evil “priests,” whom I pray for the sake of The Church  to be a very small minority will be  rooted out and dealt with in the severest of manner.

Along with those that excused their behavior or looked the other way. No matter how high up in the Roman hierarchy.

Ultimately, The High Priest (Jesus) will give them every “reward” they deserve.

Rant over, for now.

[EricB]

This is sad but just like with politics, power corrupts. 

[Silentpoet]

On 8/16/2018 at 1:08 PM, PBCounty said:

It's not just the church.  Any kind of organization that mixes youth with adults seems to have a decent share of the activity.  I was in the scouts, as well as Civil Air Patrol.  Whole lot of molestin' going on.  I think I had five adult leaders in my Civil Air Patrol squadron, two were known touchers, and a third got locked up for child porn.  Scouts, a leader in his 20's was spending extra time with some of the neighborhood kids.  Sports?  Man, spend some time around coaches who are having some cocktails together - pretty candid stuff.  Don't even get me started on my school experience - by middle school it was a free for all. 

That said, locally, the churches are not doing themselves any favors.  I have never seen an entity so damn OBSESSED with sleep overs.  I have a number of "churchies" I work with.  They belong to a number of different churches.  All it seems they do is plan or partake in youth sleep overs, "lock ins", overnight trips, etc.  Why are they so obsessed with this?  They don't even drink.  

That's why outside of work I don't really seek out interacting with kids.  I will help with kids if somebody asks, but I don't have much initiative about getting in those circumstances.  Now at work, I will volunteer for some duties based on the particular kids.  But I try to avoid any possibility of accusations or appearance of improper relationships.  I am good with kids, but I don't try to do much with that particular gift.

[johnbt]

http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbydiocese.html

"Database of Publicly Accused Priests in the United States

Click a state on the map to view a list of dioceses in that state. Then click on the name of a diocese to view our current list of accused priests who worked in the diocese."

 

There are thousand upon thousand. And this database just covers the U.S.A. And then there are the ones who covered it all up. And that list leads to every Pope going back I don't know how many decades. WWII? Centuries?

[norton]

The real issue is, Priests cannot marry.  A man is going to desire relations with someone.  For most of us its with women.  For some its with children, and it seems the Catholic Church attracts these kinds of perverts.