Right To Work Law... Yea or Nay?

[Jack Ryan]

Leftist suck it

Edited January 11, 2021 by Jack Ryan

[Alcoy]

Yes.  Right to work like Virginia.

[Roger1079]

2 hours ago, Ibewshooter said:

Not all unions are the same.

Ironically the union that did nothing but hold me back was IBEW.

[Roger1079]

19 minutes ago, Jack Ryan said:

The union made the job something you wanted. You knew it was union when you came in begging for it. You can pick up and leave any time you want it is a free country. Only thing hold YOU back is your own lack of effort and ability. You'd most likely be living in a card board box down by the river with out the union you are crying about.

So the union made the job something I wanted? You sound like Obama with the "You didn't build that" BS. I was also 18 when I took the job and was oblivious to what unions were at that time as I was just entering the workforce. For the record, I did pick up and leave 15 years ago. The union held me back from merit raises and promotions because the lazy guy that worked next to me had been there longer and had seniority. There was no such thing as merit there, it was entitlement plain and simple. But as you say, my lack of effort and ability is what is holding me back. That's ironic coming from someone who relies on an outside entity to negotiate their benefits and pay. Nothing says inept and weak minded like that does. I have been in the same non union job for almost 13 years now and make 4x what I made at the union job, and I did it all on my own with my, as you put it, lack of ability. As far as the last comment, it is partially correct. I do live by the water, but I live in a 3/2 that I own in a decent neighborhood. Yep, definitely needed that union.

A union tried to get into my current company and I proudly did everything I could to keep them from getting the votes they needed by educating employees as to the things they may not have known as I didn't when I started with a company that was represented by one. They failed to get voted in and I was glad to be a part of that union failure.

[Swampfox762]

Worked all my life in Power Line work...non union.  As long as it was with a Muni utility or REA,  it was all good. 

When I went to work with a non union contractor, that's when I really saw the hate from unions.  Just like democrats, they hate it, and YOU... when you're not "with THEM".   I'm definitely a Right To Work type of guy.  Union is the Mob.

[Boogieman]

1 hour ago, Jack Ryan said:

Are you force to get fat if you want to eat candy? LOL

Are you forced to pay your share if you want to hunt the club ground?

Are you being forced to pay the rent if you want to stay at the Ritz?

No wonder you guys want union jobs. Tired of Burger King?

Eating candy is a choice.  Nobody should be forced to eat candy OR JOIN A UNION OR POLITICALLY MOTIVATED ORGANIZATION just to get a job.

Joining a gun club is a choice.  Nobody should be forced to join a gun club OR JOIN A UNION OR POLITICALLY MOTIVATED ORGANIZATION just to get a job.

Staying at the Ritz is a choice.  Nobody should be forced to stay at a luxury hotel OR JOIN A UNION OR POLITICALLY MOTIVATED ORGANIZATION just to get a job.

I wouldn't ever have a union job.  Too much self respect.  Too much love for America.  TOO many bad experiences with unions.  And nobody should be forced to join a POLITICALLY MOTIVATED ORGANIZATION.  Particularlyone with deep ties to organized crime.  It's un American.

[Boogieman]

1 hour ago, Jack Ryan said:

 

No one is being forced to do anything. You are CHOOSING to, you are asking to work there, you are BEGGING for that union job. The labor market has NEVER BEEN BETTER, employment rate higher and STILL you apparently can not find or get the job and salary you want any where, even your own family apparently don't think you are worth what you think you are. That is why you go to the union shops and beg for union jobs rather than work for the other 90% of the labor market where you CLAIM you are FREE and have a right to work for ALL THAT YOU ARE WORTH. GO! Be FREE my friend! Be all you can be!

What does any of that have to do with forcing someone to join a politically motivated organization with deep ties to organized crime?  What if a qualified free American chooses to work for a union infested employer yet chooses not to be involved with a politically motivated organization with deep ties to organized crime?  The Right ti Work.  The right of all Americans.  Denying that right is just un American.

[Roger1079]

1 hour ago, Jack Ryan said:

Are you force to get fat if you want to eat candy? LOL

Are you forced to pay your share if you want to hunt the club ground?

Are you being forced to pay the rent if you want to stay at the Ritz?

No wonder you guys want union jobs. Tired of Burger King?

First off, I am an at will employee with a management position and I am a healthy white male in my 30's meaning I can be let go at any time for whatever reason they want with or without cause. My race, gender, age, and lack of a disability remove all of those discrimination issues employers usually shy away from letting go of useless employees right away because of. I have my job because I do it well and meet or exceed my employers expectations for the salary they are paying me. If I ever fall short of those expectations I would expect the company to fire me and replace me with someone who would meet expectations. On the other side of that coin, I would also leave a company if I felt their policies and treatment of employees was unfair. I have never understood why anyone would willingly work for a company where an outside entity was necessary to ensure fair treatment and fair compensation of employees. I guess it's just easier for most employees to be weak minded followers than it is for them to become leaders on their own based on merit. I negotiate my own benefits as well as my own raises. I have done so for years and started with my company in a low level position. I now run that department and am getting paid over 160% more than when I started there in 2006. That has worked out incredibly well for me and never would have been possible if I was in a union as I did not have seniority, but proved my value and my company was not extorted by threatened walk outs to get it done.

But I don't know why I'm bothering here because I can tell I'd be better off talking to a wall as far as intelligent responses go since you seem to think that only union jobs are decent and I must work at Burger King because I see unions and their supporters for exactly what they are. 

[Jack Ryan]

Leftist suck it

Edited January 11, 2021 by Jack Ryan

[Boogieman]

2 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

Just like deciding to apply for a job or go to work today. LOL

Not hard to pick out the Republicans here.  Lots of anti government talk and yapping about small government. Oh, until they want GOVERNMENT and LEGISLATION to interefere with private negotiations between employees and the place they work. LOL, then they yell about they don't even work THERE! Did George Soros hire you guys to work as internet trolls promoting big government and legislative hiring legislation and red tape to interfere with employment contracts?

"WE NEED GOVERNMENT WE NEED MORE GOVERNMENT, THERE SHOULD BE A LAW!" Are you out on the sidewalk right now?

Actually real American's want less government interference.  We don't want laws that force us to join a POLITICALLY MOTIVATED ORGANIZATION WITH DEEP TIES TO ORGANIZED CRIME.  Much less give them our hard earned money.  If you want to be apart of an anti American leftist organization then do it.  That is your anti American choice.  Just don't try to enact more of your socialist big government laws that force real Americans to do the same.  Remember, your fellow leftist Adolph Hitler forced anyone that worked for him to be a join the Nazi party.  And that's un American.

Oh...and George Soros is one of your kind.  Your attempt to align your liberal messiah with real Americans was simply pathetic.  

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Boogieman

[Dric902]

22 hours ago, Boogieman said:

Why should anyone be forced to chose?  Why should someone else decide that a person be forced to join and financially support a politically motivated organization?  Particularly one with deep ties to organized crime.  It's just un American.

Choice is not force

“forced to choose” is a misnomer. If your forced, it’s not a choice.

If you have a choice, then you aren’t forced.

 

nobody assigned you a job

 

[Boogieman]

58 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

Choice is not force

“forced to choose” is a misnomer. If your forced, it’s not a choice.

If you have a choice, then you aren’t forced.

 

nobody assigned you a job

 

Forcing an American to make a choice isn't a choice.   And that's un American.

[Roger1079]

16 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

Just like deciding to apply for a job or go to work today. LOL

Not hard to pick out the Republicans here.  Lots of anti government talk and yapping about small government. Oh, until they want GOVERNMENT and LEGISLATION to interefere with private negotiations between employees and the place they work. LOL, then they yell about they don't even work THERE! Did George Soros hire you guys to work as internet trolls promoting big government and legislative hiring legislation and red tape to interfere with employment contracts?

"WE NEED GOVERNMENT WE NEED MORE GOVERNMENT, THERE SHOULD BE A LAW!" Are you out on the sidewalk right now?

PRIVATE negotiations between employees and the place they work? That's what you think happens? Do you understand what a union does? They are a NON EMPLOYEE organization that steps BETWEEN employees and the employer PREVENTING negotiations between the employee and company. Do you think the people that negotiate your benefits and wage on your behalf are employees of your company? As a union employee, go directly to the company and attempt to negotiate a raise and let me know how well that goes. Relating people who support merit based employment and personal responsibility to George Soros shills is laughable. No true American wants more government, just like no true American wants Capitalism, which has made the US economy one of the strongest in the world, to fade away and Socialist values take hold which is exactly what Soros supports. Ironically, Capitalism is the only reason that traitor scumbag has his billions in the first place.

And no, I'm not on the sidewalk right now picketing for open borders, free college tuition, or whatever the SJW's are crying about today. Some of us actually have jobs. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to the grill.  It's time to flip the burgers and I think the fries are done.

[ModGlock17]

Conceptually, are Unions different from Pimps ?

[Dric902]

4 hours ago, ModGlock17 said:

Conceptually, are Unions different from Pimps ?

Conceptually, are spaceships different from pencils?

conceptually, are trees different from water buffalo?

conceptually, are concepts different from brussel sprouts?

 

is a nonsequiter concept different from from a dumb idea?

[Boogieman]

3 hours ago, Dric902 said:

is a nonsequiter concept different from from a dumb idea?

Y U so so mad?  Once unions are a thing of the past you can be judged on your own merits.  Or is that the problem?  lol

[Roger1079]

4 hours ago, Boogieman said:

Y U so so mad?  Once unions are a thing of the past you can be judged on your own merits.  Or is that the problem?  lol

I'll wager a guess.....Soon he will actually need to demonstrate value to keep his job. Soon his employer will be able to fire him if he doesn't perform to expectations. Soon he will need to put on his big boy pants and go to his big bad boss at his evil greedy company to negotiate raises and benefits all by himself. Soon, he will need to work for promotions rather than just stick around longer than everyone else. Soon he will get paid a wage his job is actually worth. Soon he won't get 30 minutes of break time for every hour of "work". Soon he will need to plan for his own retirement instead of being guaranteed an overinflated pension. There is one positive for him though.....he will no longer need to pay dues to entities tied to organized crime.

On the upside, when his mob protection goes away and his company is free to terminate him, I believe my local Burger King is hiring.

[Roger1079]

12 hours ago, ModGlock17 said:

Conceptually, are Unions different from Pimps ?

Identical premise, different industries.

8 hours ago, Dric902 said:

Conceptually, are spaceships different from pencils?

conceptually, are trees different from water buffalo?

conceptually, are concepts different from brussel sprouts?

 

is a nonsequiter concept different from from a dumb idea?

Yes spaceships are different than pencils.

Yes trees are different from water buffalo.

Yes concepts are different than brussel sprouts.

The difference is everything you posted is a non sequitur and what he posted is a logical comparison with many similarities.

[ModGlock17]

1 hour ago, Roger1079 said:

Identical premise, different industries.

Yes spaceships are different than pencils.

Yes trees are different from water buffalo.

Yes concepts are different than brussel sprouts.

The difference is everything you posted is a non sequitur and what he posted is a logical comparison with many similarities.

I took that as a response from HAL (2001 Space Odyssey) when presented with irrefutable logical fact that created conflicts within its pattern of "thoughts".  It's the equivalence of "HAL can not compute!"

It was necessary to draw that out, so that HAL's capability of reasoning is obvious.

[Sharp Stick]

I have a friend who was employed as a computer scientist and was laid off. He made ends meet by starting a lawn care business. But he had a friend that worked in a local factory who came to him with a job opening on third shift. The job was skilled labor to perform a finishing step in the manufacture of a highly precise part, one of thousands just like it, that went into a very large machine. This step couldn't be done by machine with automation; it had to be done by a hand by a trained person. To this day, this step is still done only by human hand in the industry world wide. The shop he worked at had 17 other guys there on third shift doing exactly the same thing, and it was a union shop.

After a couple of weeks my friend got to the point where he was completing 24 or sometimes 25 of these parts to spec each shift. One day when he arrived he was visited by the shop steward who pulled him aside and told him that he was completing too many parts. All the other guys were only completing 14 or 15 and he was making them look bad. Pretty soon someone was going to wonder why my friend could complete so many parts and the other longer-tenured and more experienced employees couldn't. The shop steward told my friend that he could complete no more than 15 parts per shift.

My friend pointed out to him that the other guys could complete as many as he could, but they would do their 14 or 15 parts in a about 2/3 of their shift time and then hang out, read magazines, go home while someone punched out for them, went outside and played firsbee, etc. The shop steward encouraged my friend to do the same, but my friend couldn't exist in that sort of work environment. He tried to stay on the job, but they made it too difficult for him in ways that no person really should have to go through at their job, so he quit.

The company by that time had experienced many challenges in the industry including foreign competition to the point where they were losing market share and profits had dwindled. They ended up closing up the entire manufacturing site at that location, moved it to another state, and re-opened as a non-union manufacturing facility. Over 3000 employees were laid off...lost their jobs at the original site, and over 4000 employees were hired and put to work at the new site. The company is now back on top in their industry.

It seemed to me to be like a virus that infects the host and the host eventually dies. What does the virus have then?

[Roger1079]

1 hour ago, Sharp Stick said:

I have a friend who was employed as a computer scientist and was laid off. He made ends meet by starting a lawn care business. But he had a friend that worked in a local factory who came to him with a job opening on third shift. The job was skilled labor to perform a finishing step in the manufacture of a highly precise part, one of thousands just like it, that went into a very large machine. This step couldn't be done by machine with automation; it had to be done by a hand by a trained person. To this day, this step is still done only by human hand in the industry world wide. The shop he worked at had 17 other guys there on third shift doing exactly the same thing, and it was a union shop.

After a couple of weeks my friend got to the point where he was completing 24 or sometimes 25 of these parts to spec each shift. One day when he arrived he was visited by the shop steward who pulled him aside and told him that he was completing too many parts. All the other guys were only completing 14 or 15 and he was making them look bad. Pretty soon someone was going to wonder why my friend could complete so many parts and the other longer-tenured and more experienced employees couldn't. The shop steward told my friend that he could complete no more than 15 parts per shift.

My friend pointed out to him that the other guys could complete as many as he could, but they would do their 14 or 15 parts in a about 2/3 of their shift time and then hang out, read magazines, go home while someone punched out for them, went outside and played firsbee, etc. The shop steward encouraged my friend to do the same, but my friend couldn't exist in that sort of work environment. He tried to stay on the job, but they made it too difficult for him in ways that no person really should have to go through at their job, so he quit.

The company by that time had experienced many challenges in the industry including foreign competition to the point where they were losing market share and profits had dwindled. They ended up closing up the entire manufacturing site at that location, moved it to another state, and re-opened as a non-union manufacturing facility. Over 3000 employees were laid off...lost their jobs at the original site, and over 4000 employees were hired and put to work at the new site. The company is now back on top in their industry.

It seemed to me to be like a virus that infects the host and the host eventually dies. What does the virus have then?

Sounds about right.....But, but, but.....unions are good, right?

[Sharp Stick]

It's one example, but I know of others. I also know of an example where a union shop had a history of being extremely contentious, overly demanding and unyielding during negotiations, and highly critical of management. They thought management was "out to screw them." Through lengthy discussions, they realized that their positions were unsustainable for the company and they became much more reasonable. There is now a strong relationship between management and the union there.

I've never been a union member and never really cared about what they were negotiating for, even if it pertained to me. All of the things they seemed to want more of I was prepared to go get for myself if I didn't already have it and thought I needed it. I always hoped they would negotiate for more vacation time as an example of something I couldn't really go get for myself.

[Roger1079]

44 minutes ago, Sharp Stick said:

It's one example, but I know of others. I also know of an example where a union shop had a history of being extremely contentious, overly demanding and unyielding during negotiations, and highly critical of management. They thought management was "out to screw them." Through lengthy discussions, they realized that their positions were unsustainable for the company and they became much more reasonable. There is now a strong relationship between management and the union there.

I've never been a union member and never really cared about what they were negotiating for, even if it pertained to me. All of the things they seemed to want more of I was prepared to go get for myself if I didn't already have it and thought I needed it. I always hoped they would negotiate for more vacation time as an example of something I couldn't really go get for myself.

That is definitely the exception. A perfect example of the opposite happening is the UAW. Ford, GM, and Chrysler did themselves no favors by focusing primarily on SUV's as with the 2008 financial crisis, a 12mpg Suburban was not what people were buying, but the final nail in the coffin was the UAW refusing to budge on the insanely overinflated wages and would have rather seen the company go bankrupt than compromise. Without the government intervening with a bailout, GM and Chrysler would have gone under while Ford managed to hang on by a frayed thread. The UAW was a huge contributor in Detroit being the cesspool it is today. 

Point being, it can go either way and compromise usually takes a backseat to demands when unions are involved. 

[Sharp Stick]

Agreed.

[blueiron]

No matter whether you choose RTW or closed shop, there are plenty of examples that illustrate the gross abuses of either position. 

I've worked in RTW states and because of abuses, the line employees where spent my career formed a guild and got the managers to accept meet & confer. We refused to be represented by the AFL-CIO, the Teamsters, or any other state/national organization. We only concerned ourselves with our working conditions, equitable pay, and retirement factors. It proved successful enough that the supervisors and then the managers formed their own groups for their interests.

Lazy employees, abusers of sick time, etc. are in every industry. I hated working around them and I often called them out on it. How anyone can take pride in being a slacker and not putting in a full day's work for a full day's pay is beyond me. Some people have zero ethics.