pipedreams Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Wonder how much dealers will give you on a trade in knowing this. The battery pack is almost the entire cost of the car in some cases. Some are more costly than the car itself. "The long-term costs of owning EVs are often misunderstood. Even if they’re powered by batteries, electric cars still need brakes, tires, and suspension. And because of the complex chemistry of lithium-ion batteries, these cars have a specific shelf life and degradation compared to internal combustion. Trouble is, engines get cheaper on a long enough timeline and generally can sit around indefinitely. Batteries are in constant decline." https://www.thedrive.com/guides-and-gear/these-replacement-battery-costs-for-these-six-normal-evs-is-staggeringly-high?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation&spot_im_redirect_source=pitc "The EV aftermarket hasn’t quite happened yet but as demand for EVs grows, reconditioned or aftermarket battery packs could be available in a few short years. There is no getting around the high cost of batteries. At least for now. 10 years from now, there will be a reckoning on EV longevity. It will be interesting to see where used EVs land compared to ICE cars." There are a lot of Toyota's out there that are more than 10 years old and cost almost nothing to maintain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Do these batteries degrade when they're not running? i.e., do they have a shelf life. Just curious, I would never buy one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janice6 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 1 minute ago, gwalchmai said: Do these batteries degrade when they're not running? i.e., do they have a shelf life. Just curious, I would never buy one. Age is not a good thing to a battery. Even when not used. Don't forget either that the battery capacity is affected by temperature and the recommendation for EV in places like Minnesota is to prevent a 40% capacity due to below zero temps, you are told to keep the car in a heated garage overnight. So, how does this additional cost factor in to the viability of EV's? I wouldn't touch one in a Minnesota climate in the Winter. It will be a death trap someday. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipedreams Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, gwalchmai said: Do these batteries degrade when they're not running? i.e., do they have a shelf life. Just curious, I would never buy one. My guess is they would be much like the battery life in a laptop computer only a larger scale. There is a lot discussion on recharging and what is best for the battery life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricordo Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Do they have to be replenished with water every now and then and, in a pinch, would Gatorade do? Mountain Dew? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janice6 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, Ricordo said: Do they have to be replenished with water every now and then and, in a pinch, would Gatorade do? Mountain Dew? No. Lithium car Batteries are sealed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 43 minutes ago, Ricordo said: Do they have to be replenished with water every now and then and, in a pinch, would Gatorade do? Mountain Dew? Just piss on 'em. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAKA Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 If the replacement batteries are anything like the cordless tool batteries, you will need to buy O/E batteries from a dealer, I have tried the non O/E replacements for my RYOBI tools and they are not nearly as good..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipedreams Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, DAKA said: If the replacement batteries are anything like the cordless tool batteries, you will need to buy O/E batteries from a dealer, I have tried the non O/E replacements for my RYOBI tools and they are not nearly as good..... Most of the non OE batteries are from china are crap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tous Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Most of the OEM batteries are from China and crap. They all come out of the same slave-labor factory, they just put a different name on them. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricordo Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Milk Duds are a much better energy source. According to ancient astronaut theorists, it's what Aliens use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tous Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Texas aliens prefer Whoppers. Less chewing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS_Rider Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 I own an EV and it's tough to find any information that isn't tainted by an agenda. You have the fanboys that think they're the savior of the environment with zero consequences and the naysayers that think they're disposable in 10 years. The price tag on a replacement battery is staggering, but so is a factory crate engine installed by a dealer. Point being most people with older cars don't go that route. I know of several places in the Phoenix area that specialize in hybrid battery repair and replacement and it's much cheaper than then dealer replacement route. It makes sense that the market will transition this way as EV's become more prevalent. Battery degradation is definitely a thing but 10 years seems off the mark, at least for needing replaced. We'd need to be seeing widespread degradation in the 60 to 80% range around the 5 year mark which we're not. I've talked to people with high miles and some age on their EV's and they're only down a few percent at most. Naturally there will be exceptions but overall I'm betting most will have very usable car with minimal degradation at the 10 year mark. BTW the comment about freezing temps is true. EV owners on the forums are reporting a 25 to 30% drop in range in below freezing temps. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 Maybe hope is around the corner... https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a41124032/crab-shell-battery/ Chitin and its derivative chitosan are natural polymers found in crustaceans and elsewhere in nature. Engineers at the University of Maryland devised a way to make zinc-based batteries more durable by incorporating chitosan. This could pave a way for alternatives to lithium-ion batteries, which are becoming increasingly expensive, in addition to the environmental issues associated with lithium mining. Crabmeat is delicious—that’s an unassailable, garlicky buttery truth. But here’s something you might not know about your predilection for boiled crustacean: Every year, about six to eight million tons of crab, shrimp, and lobster shell waste is produced worldwide, with most of it dumped straight back into the ocean or into landfills, depending on the country. The issue is not so much the colossal waste tossed aside at the dinner table as it is the lost opportunity. The hardy exoskeletons of crabs and their marine ilk are rich in useful, versatile chemicals like calcium carbonate, which has medicinal and industrial uses, and chitin, the second-most abundant natural polymer found on Earth. Over the years, scientists have mined chitin from crustacean shells for everything from tissue engineering to making biodegradable plastic. Because it and its sister polymer chitosan are considered eco-friendly and non-toxic, there’s been much interest in incorporating these chemical compounds into batteries of all things.... More @link 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAKA Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, gwalchmai said: Maybe hope is around the corner... https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a41124032/crab-shell-battery/ Chitin and its derivative chitosan are natural polymers found in crustaceans and elsewhere in nature. Engineers at the University of Maryland devised a way to make zinc-based batteries more durable by incorporating chitosan. This could pave a way for alternatives to lithium-ion batteries, which are becoming increasingly expensive, in addition to the environmental issues associated with lithium mining. Crabmeat is delicious—that’s an unassailable, garlicky buttery truth. But here’s something you might not know about your predilection for boiled crustacean: Every year, about six to eight million tons of crab, shrimp, and lobster shell waste is produced worldwide, with most of it dumped straight back into the ocean or into landfills, depending on the country. The issue is not so much the colossal waste tossed aside at the dinner table as it is the lost opportunity. The hardy exoskeletons of crabs and their marine ilk are rich in useful, versatile chemicals like calcium carbonate, which has medicinal and industrial uses, and chitin, the second-most abundant natural polymer found on Earth. Over the years, scientists have mined chitin from crustacean shells for everything from tissue engineering to making biodegradable plastic. Because it and its sister polymer chitosan are considered eco-friendly and non-toxic, there’s been much interest in incorporating these chemical compounds into batteries of all things.... More @link Aso ....Excellent soup made from the shells of shrimp...boiled... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minderasr Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 Pay the Elon Tax: Tesla Owner Claims He Is Locked Out of His Car Until He Pays $26,000 for New Battery A Canadian Tesla owner claims that after the battery on his $140,000 car died, the automaker told him a replacement would cost $26,000 and locked him out of the vehicle until he pays for a new one. Fox Business reports that Mario Zelaya, a Canadian Tesla owner, posted a video to TikTok recently stating that his “piece of trash” car died and that the car is locked, stopping him from even entering the vehicle. The caption on the video states: “$26K for a new battery. Locked out of car. Recalls are needed.” https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2022/09/16/pay-the-elon-tax-tesla-owner-claims-he-is-locked-out-of-his-car-until-he-pays-26000-for-new-battery/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 I didn't read where it said Tesla locked the car (which would be criminal, I think). I got the impression that the car wouldn't unlock because the battery is dead (dumbass design). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minervadoe Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 Some guy in Europe burned his Tesla in protest once he learned that the new battert that he needed would cost over $20,000. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10339169/Owner-blows-Tesla-protest-17-000-cost-replacing-battery-Finland.html I read about places that take used Prius battery sets and 'recondition' them. Basically, they charged and discharge them correctly a few times and eliminate any built up memory and then dispose of the ones that are actually bad. They combine the ones that still work into sets and resell them. It sounds like an expensive stopgap measure to buying new batteries. There are a bunch of sites online listing similar services as the ones in this link. https://powercurious.com/prius-battery-reconditioning/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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