The sort of thing that makes ya' want to lose your religion entirely...

[Mrs.Cicero]

when half a church leaves because the pastor has turned it into a cult of vile manipulation and spiritual abuse (at best)... then that pastor calls all the local churches within 25 miles of his cult.. to warn them not to accept any of those former members of his - the unChristian people who believe everything in the Apostles and Nicene Creeds... but refused to submit to him violating the church's own constitution and doctrine.  (Apparently it wasn't enough to tell the people who are still members that they should hate us, spit on us (literally in some cases), turn and walk the other way when they saw us anywhere, etc).   

Remember those Psalms that no one reads and everyone cringes at - the angry ones where David is praying for violent deaths for his enemies and their wives and their children and their sheep and their cattle and just wanting them wiped from the face of the earth? Yeah.  I have a much better understanding why he'd pray for stuff like that.  I'm not to that point.  But a well-aimed lightning bolt from the Heavens would seem appropriate right about now...

Rant/off, thanks.

[Valmet]

...I couldn’t resist. 

[Silentpoet]

34 minutes ago, Mrs.Cicero said:

when half a church leaves because the pastor has turned it into a cult of vile manipulation and spiritual abuse (at best)... then that pastor calls all the local churches within 25 miles of his cult.. to warn them not to accept any of those former members of his - the unChristian people who believe everything in the Apostles and Nicene Creeds... but refused to submit to him violating the church's own constitution and doctrine.  (Apparently it wasn't enough to tell the people who are still members that they should hate us, spit on us (literally in some cases), turn and walk the other way when they saw us anywhere, etc).   

Remember those Psalms that no one reads and everyone cringes at - the angry ones where David is praying for violent deaths for his enemies and their wives and their children and their sheep and their cattle and just wanting them wiped from the face of the earth? Yeah.  I have a much better understanding why he'd pray for stuff like that.  I'm not to that point.  But a well-aimed lightning bolt from the Heavens would seem appropriate right about now...

Rant/off, thanks.

Sounds like he wanted to be an ear tickler.  Remember what Jesus said:

Quote

¹⁵ “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. ¹⁶ By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? ¹⁷ Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. ¹⁸ A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. ¹⁹ Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. ²⁰ Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples

²¹ “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ²² Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ ²³ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

I am sorry you are having to go through this.  But unfortunately we live in a broken, fallen world filled with fallen people. I don't have any answers in the meantime, but I do believe this world is getting closer to the end than the beginning.

[Batesmotel]

Call the Mormons. They won’t care what he says about you.

[Mrs.Cicero]

As much as I like my LDS friends…  I gave up 50 pages into the Book of Mormon about 35 years ago.  

[ChuteTheMall]

It's a relationship, not a religion. Flee iniquity, Even Jesus had some problems with the religious establishment, that brood of vipers.

[Borg warner]

2 hours ago, Mrs.Cicero said:

when half a church leaves because the pastor has turned it into a cult of vile manipulation and spiritual abuse (at best)... then that pastor calls all the local churches within 25 miles of his cult.. to warn them not to accept any of those former members of his - the unChristian people who believe everything in the Apostles and Nicene Creeds... but refused to submit to him violating the church's own constitution and doctrine.  (Apparently it wasn't enough to tell the people who are still members that they should hate us, spit on us (literally in some cases), turn and walk the other way when they saw us anywhere, etc).   

Remember those Psalms that no one reads and everyone cringes at - the angry ones where David is praying for violent deaths for his enemies and their wives and their children and their sheep and their cattle and just wanting them wiped from the face of the earth? Yeah.  I have a much better understanding why he'd pray for stuff like that.  I'm not to that point.  But a well-aimed lightning bolt from the Heavens would seem appropriate right about now...

Rant/off, thanks.

Find another church. All people are not the same and all churches are not the same and churches are made up of people. I had a religious upbringing but was never a regular church goer but I've always been religious and have attended services in many different churches both protestant and Catholic and even Buddhist and Hindu. The church I liked best was Greek orthodox because the people were very reverent and didn't seem to be there to socialize, only to worship.

I now attend regular church services only because my extended family goes there and it's the best way t keep in touch with my family.  And I don't like their music but I'm not there for the music and I'm not just there to keep in touch with the family either, I'm there to keep in touch with God.

I used to sing with a black gospel choir and I liked their form of worship. They were very sincere.  But I sang tenor and got to the point where I started losing my vocal range and no longer had the wind to sing at top volume anymore (which is the way black gospel is sung)  so I had to give it up but it was a great experience.  The church I go to now is the Church of the Nazarene and I like it because it's very Bible-based and my sister-in-law is on the board of directors and from what she tells me everyone gets along and there's no politics.

[Batesmotel]

Terrible things happen when there is financial gain in controlling a congregation. I hope you and your congregation get through this together. 

[Fog]

The "church" of the day crucified Jesus and it was their "leaders" that demanded it be done.

 

[railfancwb]

Here is a discussion - testimony really - from an individual who left a specific denomination. Most, if not all, of the reasons he left can be found in all of the other denominations.

https://www.godsmessageontheweb.com/index.php/2021/01/02/why-i-left-the-church-of-christ/

 

[Cougar_ml]

2 hours ago, Mrs.Cicero said:

As much as I like my LDS friends…  I gave up 50 pages into the Book of Mormon about 35 years ago.  

I didn't even get 5 pages into it, and I was raised in the LDS church.

[Cougar_ml]

Every church succeeds or fails at the level of the individuals.

I don't know the specifics of your individual congregation vs the overall church, but if the Church at large is allowing ministers like that at the pulpit, then you're better off not having anything to do with them.

 

I personally stopped going to church regularly decades ago, and only went a few times since then for mostly non-religious reasons (aging grandfather who needed someone to drive him and watch over him was the last year I went)

 

 

[Ricordo]

Quote

makes ya' want to lose your religion entirely...

I wouldn't fully skin myself for a localized rash.

[Mrs.Cicero]

1 hour ago, Ricordo said:

I wouldn't fully skin myself for a localized rash.

I keep reminding myself.  It’s helping that nearly 60 people left - and we’re meeting every week until the end of the summer just to sing and pray, led by the the assoc pastor that the “leadership” of the former church forced to resign.  We’re all a bit leery of just forming a new church… anger, bitterness, and/or spite would be a poor foundation.  In the meantime, we’re all just visiting other churches on Sunday mornings.  That’s been… interesting, and occasionally deafening…

[Mrs.Cicero]

6 hours ago, Cougar_ml said:

Every church succeeds or fails at the level of the individuals.

I don't know the specifics of your individual congregation vs the overall church, but if the Church at large is allowing ministers like that at the pulpit, then you're better off not having anything to do with them.

 

I personally stopped going to church regularly decades ago, and only went a few times since then for mostly non-religious reasons (aging grandfather who needed someone to drive him and watch over him was the last year I went)

 

 

Yes.  It was a Baptist church, so it SHOULD have been entirely under the control of its own congregation, answerable to no one but God… unfortunately the pastor decided he was god, and the elders chose to protect him instead of the congregation (they completely failed in their duty to the congregation)… allowing the pastor to stomp all over the church constitution which, if followed, would have protected us from his insanity.  The 54% of the congregation he has under his thumb/brainwashed/too lazy to go thru another year+ long pastor search… well they chose to overlook the violations, forced the rest of to leave- and hate us for leaving.  I’m just not used to hypocrisy on quite that large and blatant a scale.  Well, I expect it from the political left and the MSM, but not at church…

[Ricordo]

18 minutes ago, Mrs.Cicero said:

I keep reminding myself.  It’s helping that nearly 60 people left - and we’re meeting every week until the end of the summer just to sing and pray, led by the the assoc pastor that the “leadership” of the former church forced to resign.  We’re all a bit leery of just forming a new church… anger, bitterness, and/or spite would be a poor foundation.  In the meantime, we’re all just visiting other churches on Sunday mornings.  That’s been… interesting, and occasionally deafening…

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
 

[Mrs.Cicero]

40 minutes ago, Ricordo said:

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
 

And when there are 40, there the singing is LOUD, 

[Gunboat1]

https://globalmethodist.org

 

Some very exciting things are happening in the Methodist Church.   Lots of past errors and heresies are being rejected and a much more traditional,  Scripturally-founded doctrine is being re-embraced.

 

I hope you will read about this and consider making it your new home.

 

 

[Mrs.Cicero]

1 hour ago, Gunboat1 said:

https://globalmethodist.org

 

Some very exciting things are happening in the Methodist Church.   Lots of past errors and heresies are being rejected and a much more traditional,  Scripturally-founded doctrine is being re-embraced.

 

I hope you will read about this and consider making it your new home.

 

 

I grew up in a UMC church.  The one  here in town went all leftist touchy-feely-anything goes  a few years back and is now defunct, the property for sale.  I'd consider an independent one, but my husband won't.  My oldest daughter went off and found an Orthodox Presbyterian Church with a fabulous pastor (and way more formal/high church than anything she grew up with).  I'm good with that. Youngest daughter says people ruin religion, and she refuses to have anything to do with organized religion anymore.   I... can relate to that reaction, but I'm not happy about it.  I envy my parents -they've belonged to the same Sunday School class for over 50 years - even when they switched churches for several years, they still attended the weekly lunches and other get-togethers.  They've been close friends my entire life.  That's what it's supposed to be...

[Gunboat1]

I sympathize. 

The GMC is absolutely NOT the UMC....by design.  I encourage you to talk with him about it and to read their provisional doctrinal and governing documents, linked on the website.  God bless you all and good luck.  

[Hauptmann6]

Funny this comes up. A good friend of mine who was is a pastor just left his church after going to a regional retreat type thing for pastors and upper church leadership. He was so disgusted about the fighting over minor differences in theology that he lost all faith. He moved on to another religion that just went with the basics. Treat your fellow man well.

[Ricordo]

On 6/27/2022 at 2:06 AM, railfancwb said:

Here is a discussion - testimony really - from an individual who left a specific denomination. Most, if not all, of the reasons he left can be found in all of the other denominations.

https://www.godsmessageontheweb.com/index.php/2021/01/02/why-i-left-the-church-of-christ/

 

Very interesting read. Thank you.

Here's something that I hope you find interesting:

 

Spoiler alert. A recent study found that the particular variation  of wood used in the building of the staircase,  Picea Spruce, was previously unknown to this planet. There are other known variations of Picea Spruce. One of the things that keep me at around 80% Catholic. It varies almost daily.  I also have to give credit where credit is due--- smoking and drinking.

https://play.history.com/shows/the-unxplained/season-1/episode-2

 

 

[railfancwb]

1 hour ago, Ricordo said:

Very interesting read. Thank you.

Here's something that I hope you find interesting:

 

Spoiler alert. A recent study found that the particular variation  of wood used in the building of the staircase,  Picea Spruce, was previously unknown to this planet. There are other known variations of Picea Spruce. One of the things that keep me at around 80% Catholic. It varies almost daily.  I also have to give credit where credit is due--- smoking and drinking.

https://play.history.com/shows/the-unxplained/season-1/episode-2

 

 

Thanks!