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Are peoples brains wired at birth to have faith or not?


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For me, I've never been able to get religion. Read the bible, went to a dozen different churches with extended family etc, Just never was able to suspend my natural disbelief enough to accept it.

 

Others I grew up with fully had faith with the same upbringing.

 

Is it something wired into our brains at birth?

Please don't use the bible to prove the bible. Just looking for ideas and experience.

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No.

The creation and belief in gods, beings superior to us in form, intellect and power is arbitrary, completely made up.

Consider that in written history of the human race there have been hundreds if not thousands of religions, most pan-theistic.

I suggest that religion  had two main purposes: it explained the wonders of the natural world to the mass of humanity that was profoundly ignorant and religion served as a means of power, political, social and cultural,  for those that controlled it.

So much control that humans accepted human sacrifice, often of children, as valid because their religious leaders, whom even kings  acquiesced,  claimed it was.

:599c64bfb50b0_wavey1:

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While I suggest that religion, belief in an omniscient being controlling humanity, is the largest and most common example of faith, we engage in faith, belief without evidence, often blind faith, many times per day, every day.

Consider the city of Moscow, Russia.

I have never been there, never spoken to anyone that has, so I have no empirical, inferential or testimonial  evidence that such a city, such a country exists.

Yet, I accept that they do.

An act of faith, no?

 

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46 minutes ago, tous said:

No.

The creation and belief in gods, beings superior to us in form, intellect and power is arbitrary, completely made up.

Consider that in written history of the human race there have been hundreds if not thousands of religions, most pan-theistic.

I suggest that religion  had two main purposes: it explained the wonders of the natural world to the mass of humanity that was profoundly ignorant and religion served as a means of power, political, social and cultural,  for those that controlled it.

So much control that humans accepted human sacrifice, often of children, as valid because their religious leaders, whom even kings  acquiesced,  claimed it was.

:599c64bfb50b0_wavey1:

Seems human sacrifice of children is accepted - no, demanded - by certain segments of the United States population. To the point of riots and mob action to maintain it at status quo. 

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How about God, heaven, Shangri La all being euphemisms for the conservation of energy? Energy can neither be created or destroyed, it can only change form. Just because you and I live changes the universes energy in some little way. This also explains eternal life. That will be 50 cents.

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I formed my beliefs by investigation and introspection. 

I have always believed that I should know myself as others see me.  With this knowledge, I would know how to treat them and interact reasonably.  I'm not obsessed with pleasing others or dominating with them, just that I get so immersed in what I'm doing that I tend to not see or hear someone else, it's like being interrupted during a detailed task.

I was working with my son on a car and my wife heard me cussing and swearing, obviously grossly pissed at something.  She poked her head through the door and told my son he didn't have to put up with that from me!  My son told her, "It's ok!  He's not mad at me!".  He understood.

I even went so far at work that I told my management that I'm an ******* to work with since I am wholly devoted to accomplishing the task at hand, and I expect those who work with me to be the same.  Of course I know this isn't true, but I do it and it pisses others off who are more likely to moderate their efforts.

 So I spent my whole career working pretty much independently, but with the grace of my leadership.  It's funny.  Customers seemed to like me.  My over riding belief is that I will be honest with others.  Oddly, my customers seemed to like this more than my own company.

When it comes to belief in religion I approach it as any other interactive process I have with someone else.  I reduce it to the point that I try to be a good person with respect to others, but not at the expense of my pride and independence.  As I posted earlier, I believe the basis of religion is to do onto others as you would have them do unto you.  

I try to interact this way, but, if they "do unto me what I wouldn't do to them, then all bets are off.  I will not take a beating for another's pleasure. I try to respect others and want them to respect me.  I was with people that died during my school years, and it didn't frighten me, but it did give me the patience to try to make them feel better, if only for a short while.

As Tous said, I believe religion was a way to require the ignorant to follow rules that let them live better and live longer since they didn't understand the concepts of, for example, cleanliness in food and person.  Sometimes it was a means to make people get along with each other although now it seems that it's a way to foster and foment fear and ignorance between groups.

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A concept that young'uns and old alike have difficulty with is that facts, and especially truth, do not recognize authority.

Consider an astrophysicist and a ten-year-old in the fourth grade.

If one were to inquire about black holes or quasars, one expects the astrophysicist to have the best information on the subject.

What if the question is about, say, fictional superheroes?

Who would know the facts about Batman or Spiderman?  The adult scientist or the grade-school child?

Facts and the truth do not care who knows what or what their credentials are: the truth is immutable and the same for all; which brain it resides in is irrelevant.

It makes no difference if the repository of the fact or truth is a renowned scientist or a comic book reading child.

If the astrophysicist tells you that the sky is green and the fourth-grader states that the sky is blue, the truth is not dependent on the credentials or authority of either party.

The truth just is.

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11 minutes ago, tous said:

Who would know the facts about Batman or Spiderman?  The adult scientist or the grade-school child?

What if you wanted to know how high Superman would have to fly before he exploded from decompression?

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Any ten-year-old would know that Superman cannot kersplode from decompression because he has gone into outer space a lot and has even gone into the past and future with no ill effects.

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3 hours ago, Hauptmann6 said:

For me, I've never been able to get religion. Read the bible, went to a dozen different churches with extended family etc, Just never was able to suspend my natural disbelief enough to accept it.

 

Others I grew up with fully had faith with the same upbringing.

 

Is it something wired into our brains at birth?

Please don't use the bible to prove the bible. Just looking for ideas and experience.

I agree for the most part thant many people are either born that way or they aren't.  Some people are less literally minded (Left brain Right brain?) and see beyond the physical and have a sense of the spiritual and some people just don't, but on the other hand, many people change throughout the course of their lives as the result of different experiences. My two brothers and I all had the same religious upbringing and both our parents were religious.  However, I'm the only one of the 3 brothers who's always been religious but I've also had experiences during my life including near death experiences, that confirm my belief that there is something beyond the physical realm and that not everything can be known or explained.

I don't condemn or look down on anyone who isn't religious but I have a lot more respect for someone who is agnostic and admits that they don't know if there is a higher power or not,  than I do for someone who is a dedicated atheist who claims to  know with absolute certainty that there is no such thing.  I've also been brought up to respect other people's religion and have met some impressive and very sincere people of different faiths.

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4 hours ago, tous said:

Any ten-year-old would know that Superman cannot kersplode from decompression because he has gone into outer space a lot and has even gone into the past and future with no ill effects.

OK, the nitty and the gritty are occupying the same space/time coordinates (we'll ignore the obvious 4th dimensional aspects for now). 

Superman cannot time travel by "spinning", like some dang ballerino. He must, Must, MUST fly around the Earth at the speed of light (clockwise to the future, counter-clockwise to the past). There are no shortcuts regarding fundamental laws of physics.

Now, many of you will want to ask "What if Superman is on Mars and he wants to go back in time? Does he have to go fly around Earth or can he achieve time travel by flying around Mars. It's a valid question, and frankly, I have not done the research needed to answer it authoritatively. Please come back tomorrow. 

Another question. How could Superman tell that Lois' underwear was pink? We see panty colors by measuring the frequency of the light reflected from them. Lois' underwear was covered, so no light could reach it to reflect. X-rays (assuming the vernacular was even proper in this case) don't carry "color" info, so Superman would only see Lois' panties in B&W. 

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The big question is, of course, one that every ten-year-old lad wanted to know --

If Superman, perhaps in his Clark Kent persona, had sex with Lois Lane, what would happen once his super sperm were unleashed?  :strong:

 

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3 minutes ago, tous said:

The big question is, of course, one that every ten-year-old lad wanted to know --

If Superman, perhaps in his Clark Kent persona, had sex with Lois Lane, what would happen once his super sperm were unleashed?  :strong:

 

Yeah, it's intriguing. However, we have many examples of Supe being able to control himself in exciting circumstances. That's why he can deliver a punch which will render that bad guy unconscious for six hours instead of separating his head from his body. So Supe could do it with Lois safely. Now, as to his "issue", I'm going to go with the "Adam Smith meets the Thing from another World" Principle. When Norris's head grew legs and walked off on its own, the "part" is pursuing its own best interests. I'm going to assume that each of Supe's gametes will want to treat the egg gingerly, thus increasing its chances at successful reproduction. Similarly, once quickened it's in Lois' baby's best interest to not kick hard. Or fly. Flying could be inconvenient.

And what about flying? Could SuperBaby fly? One thing I learned from Kryptonian Genetics 101 is that acquired characteristics cannot be passed to descendants. Kal could fly because of lower Earth gravity or the Red Sun thing, but the hook was that Kal's powers came from his location. SuperBaby would develop on Earth, so maybe no powers...  

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If a coin represents faith, flipping it usually lands either the religious or the atheist facing up. Lands on edge - agnostic. 
 

edited to use “atheist” where it should be

Edited by railfancwb
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Religion is not just about faith, but also about discipline.  I don't believe we are hardwired from birth which specific religion to follow, but I firmly believe that we are hardwired from birth to be disciplined in the fundamental rule about respecting and loving other living things.  You take a bunch of toddlers from all walks of life and you put them together and observe them, you will see they interact in the same way.  A non-violent fashion because they haven't had their hardwires tampered with.  Now you do the same with a bunch of teenagers and you will see quite a different interaction.  You will see those who's values they were born with continue on thanks to their parents and religion and you will see those who've had their hardwired values severed by indoctrination, single parent households, and no religion.       

You don't need faith or religion to be a good person and procreate new generations of good people, but what you do need is those fundamental hardwires from birth to stay intact.  

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1 hour ago, Maser said:

Religion is not just about faith, but also about discipline.  I don't believe we are hardwired from birth which specific religion to follow, but I firmly believe that we are hardwired from birth to be disciplined in the fundamental rule about respecting and loving other living things.  You take a bunch of toddlers from all walks of life and you put them together and observe them, you will see they interact in the same way.  A non-violent fashion because they haven't had their hardwires tampered with.  Now you do the same with a bunch of teenagers and you will see quite a different interaction.  You will see those who's values they were born with continue on thanks to their parents and religion and you will see those who've had their hardwired values severed by indoctrination, single parent households, and no religion.       

You don't need faith or religion to be a good person and procreate new generations of good people, but what you do need is those fundamental hardwires from birth to stay intact.  

You may be right.  I see in infants of most all species, that they want to be accepted (or liked).  they appear to smile and act non-threateningly to anyone they encounter.  

This appears to be a  survival instinct.  You can see infants being cared for even if minimally, by adults of other species too. 

It looks like these innocents are for the most part, "special" in the eyes of an adult of most any species, and treated kindly. 

Of course there are exceptions, just like their are exceptions within our own species and those exceptions find killing their prodigy to be an acceptable trade off for the enjoyment of a moment of passion without regard to procreation, sex.

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There is that freaky experiment some professor in Boston is doing, where he hooks electrodes up to someone's brain, and zaps it from another room... and more than half the people so zapped are then absolutely certain that there is another presence (a spiritual one, and there is no guarantee it's a good one although that seems to be the overwhelming majority's experience) in the room besides them.  So the question becomes, "Whose brain cells are more likely to be excited by some input, which results in this certainty?  And is the usual (non-experimental) input real (in the sense that their really is another presence and that is what the person is sensing) or is it just the byproduct of something else, and since it is either usually good or neutral in terms of survival, it's never been weeded out of the human genetic code?"

I... don't know.  I'm having an existential crisis this week, so I'm the last person to ask for a clue...

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Disclosure:

I'm usually 80% (+-) Catholic. It varies almost daily.  The rest is mostly a strong mix of Rosicrucianism (AMORC) and around 3.5% Hinduism.

Given that symbiosis, I believe that humans are hard-wired for esoteric, metaphysical, spiritual, mystical experiences. In some, more fully developed, in others less so. But we all have it.

Unrecognized or not.

Sad year 8510...

 

 

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I believe that people, most people, want to believe that there is more to life than just existence and death. That they have no significance to anyone.

Too many think they have a thankless and hopeless existence, and want to think that at some time they will get something out of life.  If not here and now, then sometime after death.  Some reward for what they put into living.

People need hope that their lives mean something other than just being.  They want to feel relevant, to have had some meaning.  To have value. 

Otherwise, for most people there is no reason for their existence.  Few of us want to feel irrelevant. If they are then life has no importance to anyone.

I know I felt that during my working life.  I salved my conscience by producing, patents, technical papers in Physics Journals, and new concepts in technology.  I felt that I had to make some "footprints in the sand" to justify my existence on this world.  Something to leave to posterity to try to make it a better place.  Something for my family to look to to remember me by.  Something to justify me being.

One day after my retirement,  My second oldest daughter called me on the phone.  She said that she and her daughter in college, looked up my patent records on the Internet and they found 19 of them.  She was proud to see that I could be someone to think meant something to someone.  My Granddaughter is working on her PhD in Veterinary Medicine and flatters me saying she wants to do something too.  

This phone call and my Granddaughter's remark make my life significant to me, to think that someone, even one person is proud of what I have done.

I really wanted to believe that I left something for those who came after me to build on and continue to give hope to life.

Sounds absurd to many, but I wanted my life to have some meaning and not just be a parasite living off the efforts of others. I am in the history of this world, a, very, very, small part of it's history, but a real part nonetheless.

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