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Does a Law Enforcement Oath Mean Anything Anymore?


pipedreams
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December 17, 2021

Does a Law Enforcement Oath Mean Anything Anymore?

"I had coffee recently with a friend of mine, a retired FBI agent.  We were talking about the mess the FBI has become.  He’s even more disturbed about the politicization of the bureau than I am.  During our talk he said something very interesting: “Current agents are just keeping their heads down and following orders.”  A simple statement with profound implications.

Jobs in law enforcement are fundamentally different than other jobs.  That difference is the oath that all law enforcement officers swear.  The FBI oath states:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.  So help me God.

All federal, state, and local law enforcement officials swear something similar."

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/12/does_a_law_enforcement_oath_mean_anything_anymore.html

"Far too many law-enforcement officers, FBI agents included, have demonstrated that they are no longer agents of the Constitution.  At best, they’re just employees doing as told.  Their oath has become an irrelevant formality.  Given that, why should we continue to vest them with the authority of the state?  For one reason, and one reason only, it’s a dangerous world.  We need police organizations to maintain order.  But we need them to be better than they have been, so that order does not become tyranny."

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Again, I hate to be cynical, but law enforcement, at all levels, do not work for the citizens of this country.

They are employees and agents of the government and as such, most will do as the government, their employer, tells them to do.

As railfancwb noted, defying your employer, particularly when your employer has the power to imprison you or destroy your reputation such that you are no longer employable in any capacity, requires a very strong will and commitment to honor.

Given the choice between, say, seizing a citizen's firearms  or having a house foreclosed, children gone hungry, friends and colleagues treating you with disdain or worse, I suggest that law enforcement personnel will keep the roof over their heads and their children's stomach full.

Don't believe me?

Look at how many law enforcement personnel  stood and watched African and anarchist looters and rioters burn their cities and viciously assault the innocent simply because their employer, the mayor, told them to ignore the law.

Forget right and wrong, legal and illegal, honest and venal, do as you're told -- or else.

 

Apologies to the decent, honorable, law enforcement folk.

We treasure you; your weak-willed colleagues, not so much.

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31 minutes ago, tous said:

Again, I hate to be cynical, but law enforcement, at all levels, do not work for the citizens of this country.

They are employees and agents of the government and as such, most will do as the government, their employer, tells them to do.

 

Yeah.  A  lot of people think the pay check is what it's about. 

I think you will be surprised to find out that's not really the case for a number of us.

 

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1 hour ago, railfancwb said:

Wrong 

I think my 23 years...speaks for itself.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.  So help me God.

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38 minutes ago, tous said:

Apologies to the decent, honorable, law enforcement folk.

We treasure you; your weak-willed colleagues, not so much.

Which is why I included the above.

7 minutes ago, Historian said:

Yeah.  A  lot of people think the pay check is what it's about. 

I think you will be surprised to find out that's not really the case for a number of us.

 

I am not surprised that there are decent men and women on the job.

I am also not surprised that, as I mentioned, sworn peace officers will stand and watch their cities burn, stores looted, innocent citizens beaten and do nothing.

All to serve some political agenda, certainly not justice.

Many police cars need to change the slogan printed on their doors to: Protect and Serve if Politically Correct

 

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1 minute ago, tous said:

Which is why I included the above.

I am not surprised that there are decent men and women on the job.

I am also not surprised that, as I mentioned, sworn peace officers will stand and watch their cities burn, stores looted, innocent citizens beaten and do nothing.

All to serve some political agenda, certainly not justice.

Many police cars need to change the slogan printed on their doors to: Protect and Serve if Politically Correct

 

Painfully, there's some truth in there  The politically correct element is killing cops.  For real and figuratively.

It's a toxic line of work.  Physically, emotionally. and can corrode your soul.

I just think there are a lot more on our side than not.

Stand and watch? There's 30 men on duty in my county right now.  If we had a riot of 5,000 we'd be screwed.

Kinda hard to ask a guy to make a stand like it's Wake Island.

The point i am making is.   Real cops stand for what's right.

But if you are not going to do the job right then you...need to do something else.

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My remarks are not directed to anyone in particular, amigo.

You have a tough job, but as you said, if you aren't going to do it right, do something else.

And this generation of peace  officers is not unique.

In the 1960s, law enforcement stood and watched as cities burned and college campuses were destroyed, all in the name of what was politically popular at that time: Negroes (they were just black then, transitioned to Afro-American later) and long-haired hippies protesting the government must not be interfered with or annoyed  in any manner.

What profoundly saddens me today is not that justice is dead, but that so many of my fellow countrymen (yes, I assumed a pronoun) are not just eager, but proud to obey the most ludicrous government edicts; we have become a nation of  pre-revolutionary Tories*.

I am grateful that I have lived  in the era when I did and have sympathy for those that must endure a wretched future.

* for those that were taught social studies rather than history, the Tories were subjects of the British North American colonies that remained loyal to the Crown before and during the American Revolution despite crushing taxes, cruel royal masters and little freedom.  Men (women simply did not count) that would rather lick an English boot rather than fight for freedom and dignity.

The Tory philosophy was not that simple, but a full discussion is beyond the scope of this remark.  Let's just say that the Tories liked the status quo of pre-revolutionary America.

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1 hour ago, Historian said:

And begging your pardon, sir.

Who the hell are you to judge? 

Did you walk a beat? Did you drive the car?  Maybe I am miss judging your post...and I hope that's the case....

 

I was specifically answering the question you asked: “If you don't stand for right. Then what do you stand for?”

So… You asked the question. What is your answer?

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Being a cop is a job just like any other job in that you do it for a paycheck.  And like with other jobs, you're required to agree with certain things before you become employed.  People don't care about being truthful about it, they will say anything to get the job. 

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6 hours ago, railfancwb said:

I was specifically answering the question you asked: “If you don't stand for right. Then what do you stand for?”

So… You asked the question. What is your answer?

Then i offer you a profound apology.

From my seat it looked like you were saying those words of the oath mean nothing.

I am very happy with the clarification.

Again, sorry about that.

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6 hours ago, Maser said:

Being a cop is a job just like any other job in that you do it for a paycheck.  And like with other jobs, you're required to agree with certain things before you become employed.  People don't care about being truthful about it, they will say anything to get the job. 

Actually, I don't get paid for it anymore.  I am a reservist at this point.  12 to 24 hours a month usually.  Sometimes a bit more.

I do it because i want to.  There are twelve of us in my department.  We have all the same training, if not more, than any other officer.

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I think the first paragraph of the "America Thinker" article said a lot.

"I had coffee recently with a friend of mine, a retired FBI agent.  We were talking about the mess the FBI has become.  He’s even more disturbed about the politicization of the bureau than I am.  During our talk he said something very interesting: “Current agents are just keeping their heads down and following orders.”  A simple statement with profound implications.

 

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8 minutes ago, pipedreams said:

I think the first paragraph of the "America Thinker" article said a lot.

"I had coffee recently with a friend of mine, a retired FBI agent.  We were talking about the mess the FBI has become.  He’s even more disturbed about the politicization of the bureau than I am.  During our talk he said something very interesting: “Current agents are just keeping their heads down and following orders.”  A simple statement with profound implications.

 

It does.   I shoot regular with a guy who spent his entire working life with the FBI.  His father was a G-Man.   My friend carried his dad's badge...and the FBI sealed it when he retired and gave it to the family.

His oldest daughter...is going to carry that badge shortly 

Anyway:  He has voiced the same thing.  The sway of politics has had far too much influence internally.

Honestly, I blame the Justice Department.  They have been a democratic political machine.  

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16 hours ago, Historian said:

Yeah.  A  lot of people think the pay check is what it's about. 

I think you will be surprised to find out that's not really the case for a number of us.

 

I really hope that is true but am highly doubtful.

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This question should be asked of our politicians at all levels.  How many politicians ignore and/or outright completely violate their oath of office?  Why are there no consequences for those that do so?  All those SOBs in elected office who violate that oath should be tarred and feathered.

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On 12/17/2021 at 4:29 PM, pipedreams said:
December 17, 2021

Does a Law Enforcement Oath Mean Anything Anymore?

"I had coffee recently with a friend of mine, a retired FBI agent.  We were talking about the mess the FBI has become.  He’s even more disturbed about the politicization of the bureau than I am.  During our talk he said something very interesting: “Current agents are just keeping their heads down and following orders.”  A simple statement with profound implications.

Jobs in law enforcement are fundamentally different than other jobs.  That difference is the oath that all law enforcement officers swear.  The FBI oath states:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.  So help me God.

All federal, state, and local law enforcement officials swear something similar."

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/12/does_a_law_enforcement_oath_mean_anything_anymore.html

"Far too many law-enforcement officers, FBI agents included, have demonstrated that they are no longer agents of the Constitution.  At best, they’re just employees doing as told.  Their oath has become an irrelevant formality.  Given that, why should we continue to vest them with the authority of the state?  For one reason, and one reason only, it’s a dangerous world.  We need police organizations to maintain order.  But we need them to be better than they have been, so that order does not become tyranny."

The problem as I see it sir is that "The oath has indeed become just a irrelevant formality".  I hate to say it, "Loyality" is also just a formality in most jobs in America Anymore.  As far as Law enforcement is concerned, there is fear in the ranks, because there is no Trust in their management to protect them!  Their only TRUE protection is that Camera they wear on their chest every day.  AND even THAT will be analized to the inth degree in the event of an "Incident".  Unfortunately, I think Mr. Green is right, "Keep your heads down, and follow orders".

In this new environment of "Defund the Police", and the rules of these departments in response to media Always making cops look at their worst...in the public eye....Yes Sir.  I would have to agree, If I was a cop....“Current agents are just keeping their heads down and following orders.”

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On 12/17/2021 at 9:57 PM, tous said:

Again, I hate to be cynical, but law enforcement, at all levels, do not work for the citizens of this country.

They are employees and agents of the government and as such, most will do as the government, their employer, tells them to do.

As railfancwb noted, defying your employer, particularly when your employer has the power to imprison you or destroy your reputation such that you are no longer employable in any capacity, requires a very strong will and commitment to honor.

Given the choice between, say, seizing a citizen's firearms  or having a house foreclosed, children gone hungry, friends and colleagues treating you with disdain or worse, I suggest that law enforcement personnel will keep the roof over their heads and their children's stomach full.

Don't believe me?

Look at how many law enforcement personnel  stood and watched African and anarchist looters and rioters burn their cities and viciously assault the innocent simply because their employer, the mayor, told them to ignore the law.

Forget right and wrong, legal and illegal, honest and venal, do as you're told -- or else.

 

Apologies to the decent, honorable, law enforcement folk.

We treasure you; your weak-willed colleagues, not so much.

Not much to say after that.  Sad, but True.  It's not anyone's "Loyalty" or "Honor" that is really being debated here.  Our COUNTRY and our GOVT and the liberal scum that have taken it over, that is the True Problem for loss of faith in "Loyalty and Honor".  Until our Country becomes America again, "Loyalty and Honor" are words that are repeated at ceremonies.  You may truly feel it in your heart, BUT... Nobody is ever gonna use that "knee to the neck" anymore, are ya.  

 

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I faced a lot of other issues and problems over the last 23 years.  But doing the right thing always seemed to work out for those of us who choose to stay truthful to the oath. For those who do not choose to follow their oath...well, two of my academy class mates did between two and four years in federal prison.   A third one is doing 25 in the state prison for a series of domestic charges. 

This is a trimmed down version of what I wanted to post.  I had gone into details about a situation where i was asked to tell the truth and it did cost me my job.  I left because i told the truth about a local scandal when asked about it.  Took me a year to find another job in law enforcement but the stink lasted for many years.   Eventually, my reputation was restored and i gave a talk about ethics at our local academy.  And I honestly don't know anyone who has been in law enforcement, at any level, for more than 20 years who hasn't had a similar experience.

Bottom line is, if your pay check means more than your personal integrity.   You need a new job.   Policing only works when people who want to make it work...make it work...by doing the right thing. And I promise you this. There's not a person who will not be tempted in this line of work.  It's what they do when temptation strikes.

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