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Ahmaud Arbery trial verdict


crockett
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Travis McMichael declared guilty on all counts, Greg McMichael was found guilty on 8.

I didn't watch the trial, only gathered some info over the past weeks. While Ahmaud grabbing the gun is a reason for self defense in itself, those 3 white guys chased him down over an assumed trespassing issue. In my state, you can only trespass somebody when your property is fenced in and has matching signs in place, or you have to send a trespass warning to the offender first. You can't just arrest or hold down anybody who walks onto an unfenced property. So with this perspective, those 3 guys created a new situation that may have caused Ahmaud to fear for his life, and maybe he was dumb enough to go for the gun, trying to prevent them from shooting him in the first place.

I would not chase anybody down with a firearm, that walked onto a neighbors property.

If somebody would steal from a property, I'd call the cops and follow the suspect in a safe distance, but I would never try to do a "citizen" arrest.

How do you guys feel about this case?

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4 minutes ago, crockett said:

How do you guys feel about this case?

I agree with you.  It was just in unimaginable situation.  

People walk through construction sites all the time, even if it is trespassing.  I've done it.  Lots of people do it.

The man was scared for his life and did what everyone us would do. He fought back.  

This should have never happened. 

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The verdict is correct and the defendants were either drunk, just idiots or ignorant good ol' boys trying to relive the 1950s in Georgia.

Just how is a feller walking in a back yard without visible weapons a threat?

In Texas, we can use force to enforce trespassing, but not deadly force.

 

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8 minutes ago, crockett said:

Travis McMichael declared guilty on all counts, Greg McMichael was found guilty on 8.

I didn't watch the trial, only gathered some info over the past weeks. While Ahmaud grabbing the gun is a reason for self defense in itself, those 3 white guys chased him down over an assumed trespassing issue. In my state, you can only trespass somebody when your property is fenced in and has matching signs in place, or you send a trespass warning to the offender first. You can't just arrest or hold down anybody who walks onto an unfenced property. So under this perspective, those 3 guys created a new situation that may have caused Ahmaud to fear for his life, and maybe he was dumb enough to go for the gun, trying to prevent them from shooting him in the first place.

I would not chase anybody down with a firearm, that walked onto a neighbors property.

If somebody would steal from a property, I'd call the cops and follow the suspect in a safe distance, but I would never try to do a "citizen" arrest.

How do you guys feel about this case?

The dude was black.  The White Boys..."Assumed".  Guilty. 

Like the "beer summit" obozo had with the cop and the black Professor, Henry Louis Gates,  going into his own house...Same thing.  The cop "assumed".

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I have reservations about piling on charge after charge. It seems that a conviction for first degree murder should eliminate needing convictions for lesser charges. Going into the trial, though, I understand listing lesser charge. “If the jury won’t go for first degree, maybe they would convict for second degree, or voluntary manslaughter or…” 

But I do think from what little I’ve read and heard that guilty was an appropriate finding

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2 minutes ago, Swampfox762 said:

 The cop "assumed".

I used the word assume once...during my field training period as a cop.

My field training officer very quickly explained the truth to me.  To assume makes an ASS out of U Me.

Lesson learned, Cpl.  Lesson learned.

 

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The lad had a criminal record and was not the angelic individual the hippie socialists love to portray.

Note that as always, the photographs used are graduation shots or posed showing the subject as a wonderful fellow, not their mug shots or gang-related selfies on social media.

The victim's past misdeeds, real or imagined, are not justification for murder.

Although I tend to agree with the father that shot his child's rapist in an airport, I can't completely condone that.

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1 minute ago, tous said:

The victim's past misdeeds, real or imagined, are not justification for murder.

 

Right.  I agree.  Nothing in his past justified his murder.

What bothers me is how many people world-wide will think this kind of behavior is normal in America.

It's not.  This isn't who we are.   We are, despite our problems, a really decent nation of fine people.

 

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My issue with all these recent cases and the whole situation we are living in, is that none of the root causes are addressed or even talked about.

Let's assume for a moment that there is some form of ongoing racism towards black folks. Why may that be the case?

 

I think many people are just fed up with 2 issues that are much more represented in black communities:

- black folks do (much) more crime per capita compared to white folks (the FBI database is online and accessible for everybody to read)

- parts of the black culture seem to increased crime rates and family related issues like kids growing up with no father in the house, which spirals into the first issue

 

How can this imbalance be corrected? How can we keep the Dems from using and abusing this issue for political gain and control?

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8 minutes ago, crockett said:

My issue with all these recent cases and the whole situation we are living in, is that none of the root causes are addressed or even talked about.

 

I'm going to step out on a limb with an answer.

It's love.

When people starting respecting each other, treating each other with kindness, and replace hatred and evil in their hearts with love....

Then your problems will go away.

Good luck with this:  I don't see the human condition changing any time soon.    I've seen enough of man's inhumanity to man to know our base state isn't always good. 

 

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1 minute ago, Historian said:

I' going to step out on a limb with an answer.

It's love.

When people starting respecting each other, treating each other with kindness, and replace hatred and evil in their hearts with love....

Then your problems will go away.

Good luck with this:  I don't see the human condition changing any time soon.    I've seen enough of man's inhumanity to man to know our base state isn't always good. 

 

 

That's exactly what a good friend of mine keeps saying.

It's really hard to get off the beaten path when you are fed all that hate on every news outlet and most social media platforms.

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11 minutes ago, crockett said:

My issue with all these recent cases and the whole situation we are living in, is that none of the root causes are addressed or even talked about.

Let's assume for a moment that there is some form of ongoing racism towards black folks. Why may that be the case?

 

I think many people are just fed up with 2 issues that are much more represented in black communities:

- black folks do (much) more crime per capita compared to white folks (the FBI database is online and accessible for everybody to read)

- parts of the black culture seem to increased crime rates and family related issues like kids growing up with no father in the house, which spirals into the first issue

 

How can this imbalance be corrected? How can we keep the Dems from using and abusing this issue for political gain and control?

You are too young to remember, but prior to the mid-1960s, despite blatant racism in the South,  the majority of black families were middle class and many were quiet successful.

Poverty was about the same across all racial lines: for every poor black sharecropper there was a white sharecropper just as bad off.

Either way, poor folk of any stripe could get an education and with gumption, succeed.

Then came LBJ and the Great Society with increased welfare , rent control, affirmative action (yes, Kennedy and Johnson created it) and paying black women to have babies without fathers present.

Portions of The black population were then doomed to generational poverty, ignorance and crime.

Note that the hippie socialists have been curing racism and poverty for 60 years.  One would think that perhaps they just don't intend to, no?

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10 minutes ago, tous said:

You are too young to remember, but prior to the mid-1960s, despite blatant racism in the South,  the majority of black families were middle class and many were quiet successful.

Poverty was about the same across all racial lines: for every poor black sharecropper there was a white sharecropper just as bad off.

Either way, poor folk of any stripe could get an education and with gumption, succeed.

Then came LBJ and the Great Society with increased welfare , rent control, affirmative action (yes, Kennedy and Johnson created it) and paying black women to have babies without fathers present.

Portions of The black population were then doomed to generational poverty, ignorance and crime.

Note that the hippie socialists have been curing racism and poverty for 60 years.  One would think that perhaps they just don't intend to, no?

So its willful enabling in order to recreate the purpose of an ill-fitting ideology?

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20 minutes ago, tous said:

Note that as always, the photographs used are graduation shots or posed showing the subject as a wonderful fellow, not their mug shots or gang-related selfies on social media.

 

 

Kinda the same as Trayvon Martin huh?  Left media paints him to be a perfect angel, whereas Right media paints him to be the most malevolent person to have ever lived.  

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Exactly.

Those that are treated like children their entire lives by the benevolent government have little motivation of do else, no?

Democrat-run cities are just large playpens paid for, unwillingly,  by the adults in the room.

 

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1 hour ago, tous said:

You are too young to remember, but prior to the mid-1960s, despite blatant racism in the South,  the majority of black families were middle class and many were quiet successful.

Poverty was about the same across all racial lines: for every poor black sharecropper there was a white sharecropper just as bad off.

Either way, poor folk of any stripe could get an education and with gumption, succeed.

Then came LBJ and the Great Society with increased welfare , rent control, affirmative action (yes, Kennedy and Johnson created it) and paying black women to have babies without fathers present.

Portions of The black population were then doomed to generational poverty, ignorance and crime.

Note that the hippie socialists have been curing racism and poverty for 60 years.  One would think that perhaps they just don't intend to, no?

So true, and there are still black families that go to work everyday and raise their children to be good citizens.  For some reason the media portraits blacks as all being poor and criminals, while nothing is mentioned about poor whites that live off the system and cause problems.  I think we have all learned a great deal about the media and how they twist the truth to meet their goals.

Yes, LBJ did more to destroy the black culture in this country than anyone else in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, crockett said:

 

That's exactly what a good friend of mine keeps saying.

It's really hard to get off the beaten path when you are fed all that hate on every news outlet and most social media platforms.

Thank you.  I went out for a beer.  :) And figured I'd come back to being flamed.

Love your children, Teach then right and wrong, Give them faith in God.

A lot of problems go away.  If you are feed hate all your life....then you can expect hate all your life.

 

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3 hours ago, Maser said:

 

Kinda the same as Trayvon Martin huh?  Left media paints him to be a perfect angel, whereas Right media paints him to be the most malevolent person to have ever lived.  

Consider the popular and almost universally-accepted vision of the Vietnam War.

According to Hollywood, New York journalists and college professors, all who were never there, the racist United States Military emptied the country of every Negro male between the ages of 17 and 40 -- and all of them were killed in Vietnam, the White Man's War.

My best research indicates that blacks made up about 12% of the KIA during Vietnam -- 14% if you add officers -- who weren't dragged out of the ghetto by the draft.

That leaves 85% or more of the 58, 220 as non-African: Caucasian and Hispanic.  Hispanic is not a race, it's a region.

Approximately 7,000 KIA Africans.

About the same distribution as the population of the US at that time as a whole.

Not quite the way it's portrayed in the movies or television.

 

Here's to you, lads and lasses of all colors, creeds and origins, who served, from Lexington and Concord to today and especially then.    :patriot: :cheers:

I haven't forgotten and I have refused for 45 years to let despicable people question your honor and sacrifice.

 

Edited by tous
I became a bit angry. Subject close to my heart, Forgive me.
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On 11/24/2021 at 3:44 PM, crockett said:

My issue with all these recent cases and the whole situation we are living in, is that none of the root causes are addressed or even talked about.

Let's assume for a moment that there is some form of ongoing racism towards black folks. Why may that be the case?

 

I think many people are just fed up with 2 issues that are much more represented in black communities:

- black folks do (much) more crime per capita compared to white folks (the FBI database is online and accessible for everybody to read)

- parts of the black culture seem to increased crime rates and family related issues like kids growing up with no father in the house, which spirals into the first issue

 

How can this imbalance be corrected? How can we keep the Dems from using and abusing this issue for political gain and control?

LBJ’s “Great Society” and “War on Poverty” did what Jim Crow and slavery couldn’t - destroyed the black family. “Lady we will give you $xxx per month for each minor child you have, so long as no responsible male can be found.” So the woman has several - say five - children rather quickly, and only uncles can be found, and them not very often. 

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