crockett Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 First EV I would ever consider. 1111 HP and about 500 miles of range. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janice6 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 5 hours ago, crockett said: First EV I would ever consider. 1111 HP and about 500 miles of range. $77,000 to $140,000. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crockett Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, janice6 said: $77,000 to $140,000. The Dream Edition is 169k. The slower Tesla Plaid has less features, is dated and comes in at 132k. Heck, these days they sell some F-150s in the 70 to 80k range. Only one way to stay afloat in today's society: making proportionally more money compared to the inflation. A job paying 100k a year doesn't cut it anymore. That was a decent income 20 years ago. A quarter million a year enables careless living with some luxuries. That's still lightyears away from McMansion league. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampfox762 Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 5 hours ago, crockett said: First EV I would ever consider. 1111 HP and about 500 miles of range. I don't really give a **** about all this "green Crap". If you're "Charging" your "electric car" in any way using, dead dinasours...It's a Joke. Ya need to buy some "Quick Start"...50 mile...recharging battery to put in your trunk. Otherwise...call for a generator when ya run out of juice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crockett Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Swampfox762 said: I don't really give a **** about all this "green Crap". If you're "Charging" your "electric car" in any way using, dead dinasours...It's a Joke. Ya need to buy some "Quick Start"...50 mile...recharging battery to put in your trunk. Otherwise...call for a generator when ya run out of juice. Solar roof and planning ahead = zero impact on environment for driving an EV. Even if you recharge everything through the grid, an EV still puts less impact on the environment because a portion of that is generated by wind / water / sun, unlike gas vehicles. On-top of that, an EV needs less energy to begin with due to less waste in heat and friction, and especially by using regenerative breaking. You can drive many EVs without using the breaks, at all. All that energy goes right back into the battery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 10 hours ago, crockett said: Solar roof and planning ahead = zero impact on environment for driving an EV. Even if you recharge everything through the grid, an EV still puts less impact on the environment because a portion of that is generated by wind / water / sun, unlike gas vehicles. On-top of that, an EV needs less energy to begin with due to less waste in heat and friction, and especially by using regenerative breaking. You can drive many EVs without using the breaks, at all. All that energy goes right back into the battery. Crockett, you know better. First, every car has an environmental impact just due to extraction of raw materials and production. On top of that many of us ignore the tremendous environmental and human costs of those batteries and solar cells. And that third statement seems at odds with the 3rd law of thermodynamics. "All" that energy no more goes back into the battery than Adam's auf ox. If we were serious about green energy every driver and passenger would have methane capture systems fitted in our seats. We're dilatants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crockett Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, gwalchmai said: Crockett, you know better. First, every car has an environmental impact just due to extraction of raw materials and production. On top of that many of us ignore the tremendous environmental and human costs of those batteries and solar cells. And that third statement seems at odds with the 3rd law of thermodynamics. "All" that energy no more goes back into the battery than Adam's auf ox. If we were serious about green energy every driver and passenger would have methane capture systems fitted in our seats. We're dilatants. I specifically wrote: 12 hours ago, crockett said: zero impact on environment for DRIVING an EV. I didn't say anything about manufacturing one. Other than that, when it comes to the total greenhouse impact including manufacturing, you are wrong. Convectional cars do have a higher overall impact. All this generalized and politically motivated anti green talk comes from people with no clue whats really going on. You have to be pretty dumb if you try to disregard every attempt to lessen the environmental impact we have on nature. Crap like that is the reason why many people from the middle try to get away from the right. I consider it to be close to the flat earth believers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crockett Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 Also, there is more than just one motivation possible to buy an EV. They are not only good for lowering our impact on nature, you can buy one for the performance alone. That thing goes from 0 to 60 in 2.4 sec., faster than any Ferrari, let alone Miata, AND it still offers a massive range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 shooter Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 I read that Joe’s build back broke program was going to include a $7500 rebate (taxpayer money of course) on electric cars. IF it was built in a union plant with union labor, said unions typically being big supporters of all things Democrat. My budget is maybe a Camry or something in that price range, and certainly not a $160,000 electric car. If you want an electric car, buy one. But don’t subsidize it with my money. Follow the go green money. If it’s so great why are taxpayers subsidizing billions that will line the pockets of a few select groups or people? I’m now going to get some coffee, should have done that before I posted. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maser Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Electric cars are fine so long as you don't live in cold areas. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crockett Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 28 minutes ago, 21 shooter said: I read that Joe’s build back broke program was going to include a $7500 rebate (taxpayer money of course) on electric cars. IF it was built in a union plant with union labor, said unions typically being big supporters of all things Democrat. My budget is maybe a Camry or something in that price range, and certainly not a $160,000 electric car. If you want an electric car, buy one. But don’t subsidize it with my money. Follow the go green money. If it’s so great why are taxpayers subsidizing billions that will line the pockets of a few select groups or people? I’m now going to get some coffee, should have done that before I posted. That tax credit has been in place for 13 years, since Bush signed The Energy Improvement and Extension Act of 2008 into law. The sales tax alone on the car we are talking about is much higher than those 7.5k tax credit. In my state it would be around 12k. After the credit I'd still pay MORE taxes than you will with your Camry. And considering how much income tax I pay, well beyond the average, yeah I'm due for a credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, crockett said: I specifically wrote: I didn't say anything about manufacturing one. Other than that, when it comes to the total greenhouse impact including manufacturing, you are wrong. Convectional cars do have a higher overall impact. All this generalized and politically motivated anti green talk comes from people with no clue whats really going on. You have to be pretty dumb if you try to disregard every attempt to lessen the environmental impact we have on nature. Crap like that is the reason why many people from the middle try to get away from the right. I consider it to be close to the flat earth believers. Come on, crockett, nobody's falling for this. You make a statement about overall impact and back it up with a graph of emissions. This sleight-of-hand is typical of the EV movement. To be clear, I'm not "anti green", but I AM anti-nonsense. Batteries and their mining are a big issue which the completely politically-motivated "green" movement sidesteps to our peril. It's really no different from virtue signaling by wearing BLM t-shirts manufactured in sweatshops. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, crockett said: Also, there is more than just one motivation possible to buy an EV. Yeah, feel good, great performance if you sacrifice all the supposed conservation benefits, feel good, and, um, well, I guess that's about all. Oh, and you can feel good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 shooter Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 20 minutes ago, crockett said: That tax credit has been in place for 13 years, since Bush signed The Energy Improvement and Extension Act of 2008 into law. The sales tax alone on the car we are talking about is much higher than those 7.5k tax credit. In my state it would be around 12k. After the credit I'd still pay MORE taxes than you will with your Camry. And considering how much income tax I pay, well beyond the average, yeah I'm due for a credit. I haven’t looked to see if Bush specified union made only. Again, this ensures more money flowing back to the socialist party. And both Bushes turned out to be huge disappointments. As to paying more taxes, it’s been that way for a long time. You pay more for a product, you pay more taxes. The fact it comes from the government means I’m helping to pay for your rebate. That you are making way beyond average I’m glad for you. That fact doesn’t make you anymore deserving of a credit than myself or anyone else that works and pays more in taxes than we think we should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crockett Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, 21 shooter said: The fact it comes from the government means I’m helping to pay for your rebate. That you are making way beyond average I’m glad for you. That fact doesn’t make you anymore deserving of a credit than myself or anyone else that works and pays more in taxes than we think we should. That's bullshit. The majority of credits / lower tax brackets / handouts goes to folks with lower income. And they pay less taxes to begin with, often no taxes at all. Why should I pay more? If you want to talk about taxes, make one tax bracket for all and cap it at the average. Why should successful people pay more taxes? That alone is socialistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crockett Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 1 hour ago, gwalchmai said: Come on, crockett, nobody's falling for this. You make a statement about overall impact and back it up with a graph of emissions. This sleight-of-hand is typical of the EV movement. To be clear, I'm not "anti green", but I AM anti-nonsense. Batteries and their mining are a big issue which the completely politically-motivated "green" movement sidesteps to our peril. It's really no different from virtue signaling by wearing BLM t-shirts manufactured in sweatshops. I'm sorry that a study on that topic can't beat your claims without any sources, let alone a politically inspired BLM troll comparison that has nothing to do with EVs. Would you like to add the average TBS meme to make your point? I hear those are highly factual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 shooter Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 47 minutes ago, crockett said: That's bullshit. The majority of credits / lower tax brackets / handouts goes to folks with lower income. And they pay less taxes to begin with, often no taxes at all. Why should I pay more? If you want to talk about taxes, make one tax bracket for all and cap it at the average. Why should successful people pay more taxes? That alone is socialistic. That we have differing opinions doesn’t make my opinion bullshit. That lower income folks get lots of breaks has been going on for decades, I was talking about $160,000 cars and associated tax breaks/rebates/redistribute my tax money. One tax bracket for all? Eliminate all breaks and deductions? Won’t happen, the few would lose control of the majority. This country has been afflicted with creeping socialism for awhile, only now it’s went from creep to jog. Maybe you should run for public office, being as you are so successful, and show the nation how it’s done. If you can get us back to where we were 18 months ago you’ve got my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crockett Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 47 minutes ago, 21 shooter said: That we have differing opinions doesn’t make my opinion bullshit. That lower income folks get lots of breaks has been going on for decades, I was talking about $160,000 cars and associated tax breaks/rebates/redistribute my tax money. One tax bracket for all? Eliminate all breaks and deductions? Won’t happen, the few would lose control of the majority. This country has been afflicted with creeping socialism for awhile, only now it’s went from creep to jog. Maybe you should run for public office, being as you are so successful, and show the nation how it’s done. If you can get us back to where we were 18 months ago you’ve got my vote. In order to run successfully for office you have to become part of the corrupt system. There is no win:win situation possible at this point of the cycle. It needs to become much more painful before a critical mass is ready to change the system in itself. Probability theory. I won't waste my time on something that isn't promising. -- What's funny is the fact that countless members of TBS enjoy the older muscle cars posted in our ass-long car picture thread. Not one of them brought up environmental issues of those old V8s sputtering fumes out without catalytic converters, that would make you feel dizzy if you would be standing behind one in traffic. When its all old American muscle, its ok to get only 9 mpg and nobody cares about related gas prices. But once you start a thread ABOUT THE PERFORMANCE of a new EV (see my very first and only comment in my first post), all of the sudden its about the environment, taxes and politics. Countless times folks around here claim how hypocritical the left is. Looks like that disease arrived on both ends. I started this thread because this EV is wicked fast and still delivers a huge range, what used to be an oxymoron in the EV world. If I would be all about mpgs and greenhouse effects, I wouldn't own a Vette and a V8 truck. I said this before around here: the world is not black and white. With that perspective you will not advance in any field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crockett Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 Even John likes it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
railfancwb Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 FWIW until Woodrow “he kept us out of the war” Wilson brought personal income tax and Federal Reserve into the picture, the nation survived nicely on revenue from tariffs and excise taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now