Derek Chauvin’s Trial: Countdown to a Kangaroo Court

[Eric]

So, are people who support Chauvin considered Chauvinists? 

[Dric902]

When Floyd went to the ground face-down while still handcuffed. Kueng held Floyd's back and Lane held his legs. Chauvin placed his left knee in the area of Floyd's head and neck, and Floyd said, "I can't breathe" multiple times. He repeatedly also said "Mama" and "please," according to the complaint.

Chauvin, Keung and Lane all stayed in their positions. "Should we roll him on his side?" Lane asked, and Chauvin responded, "No, staying put where we got him."

Body camera footage appears to show Floyd ceasing to breathe or speak, and Kueng checks his pulse and says, "I couldn't find one."

An ambulance arrives and medics place Floyd on a gurney and take him to Hennepin County Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead.
 

Two autopsies

The autopsy conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner determined that Floyd's cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

The manner of death was listed as "homicide." Other significant conditions listed were "Arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease; fentanyl intoxication; recent methamphetamine use."

Floyd's family later hired private doctors to conduct an independent autopsy, which listed the cause of death as "mechanical asphyxia" and the manner of death as "homicide."

both autopsies said........homicide
https://www.foxnews.com/us/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-what-to-know

 

[holyjohnson]

19 hours ago, Dric902 said:

Did he die in custody? Yes

he actually died over an hour later in the ER, his time of death was 9:25 AM and not all Mpls Police are trained in the use of Narcan.

and the SOP is to call EMS to dispense Narcan.

not to nitpick, but these facts are left out of Public Consumption.

[Dric902]

30 minutes ago, holyjohnson said:

he actually died over an hour later in the ER, his time of death was 9:25 AM and not all Mpls Police are trained in the use of Narcan.

and the SOP is to call EMS to dispense Narcan.

not to nitpick, but these facts are left out of Public Consumption.

TOD doesn’t matter, response matters

both autopsies say “homicide” no matter what spin you read

.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Dric902

[Dric902]

The media narrative about the trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin should disturb you if you are concerned with due process. It is a criminal trial, and the jury must use the standard beyond a reasonable doubt to find Chauvin guilty of anything. This article does not advocate for either finding. Instead, it promotes the idea that Chauvin’s guilt or innocence must rely on the facts in the case and whether or not they prove the elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt.
This idea is fundamental to our justice system, but it appears almost no talking heads in the media and none of the activist lawyers recall that principle. The narrative is beginning to sound a lot more like mob justice, with the threat of a repeat performance of last summer’s violent riots hanging in the air. In a civilized society based on due process, the City of Minneapolis and American citizens should accept this. Unfortunately, with the barricaded court building, heightened security, and National Guard at the ready, we seem resigned to it.

The verdict’s basis is the complete set of circumstances present during the nearly full hour of bodycam footage that documents the interaction between the shop employee, George Floyd, his companions, and the Minneapolis police officers summoned to the scene on May 25, 2020. Not anyone’s perception of what should happen based on their own experience, prejudice, or thoughts about America’s history.

 

Legal commentators from the Right like Ben Shapiro and the Left like Barbara McQuade have both noted that based on the facts of the case and the elements of the crimes Chauvin has been charged with, a conviction will be difficult. That is because of due process and the evidentiary standard in a criminal trial matter. Even Vice President Kamala Harris said convicting Chauvin will be difficult. She also said people are conditioned to trust police officers. Perhaps she doesn’t recall the events of the last nine months or the disgusting ad she made with Joe Biden during the campaign.

No American should celebrate either verdict. A guilty verdict does not mean anything other than that the evidence proved the criminal elements beyond a reasonable doubt. An acquittal doesn’t mean George Floyd’s family did not lose a brother and a son. Not every tragic thing that happens is a crime. It is imperative that Americans circle back to the fundamental principles of our justice system, understanding that due process may not always serve anyone’s preferred narrative.

https://pjmedia.com/columns/stacey-lennox/2021/03/31/the-verdict-in-derek-chauvins-trial-is-not-a-reflection-of-anything-other-than-the-facts-of-the-case-n1436643
.

[TBO]

When Floyd went to the ground face-down while still handcuffed. Kueng held Floyd's back and Lane held his legs. Chauvin placed his left knee in the area of Floyd's head and neck, and Floyd said, "I can't breathe" multiple times. He repeatedly also said "Mama" and "please," according to the complaint.

Chauvin, Keung and Lane all stayed in their positions. "Should we roll him on his side?" Lane asked, and Chauvin responded, "No, staying put where we got him."

Body camera footage appears to show Floyd ceasing to breathe or speak, and Kueng checks his pulse and says, "I couldn't find one."

An ambulance arrives and medics place Floyd on a gurney and take him to Hennepin County Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead.

 

Two autopsies

The autopsy conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner determined that Floyd's cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

The manner of death was listed as "homicide." Other significant conditions listed were "Arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease; fentanyl intoxication; recent methamphetamine use."

Floyd's family later hired private doctors to conduct an independent autopsy, which listed the cause of death as "mechanical asphyxia" and the manner of death as "homicide."

both autopsies said........homicide

https://www.foxnews.com/us/derek-chauvin-trial-george-floyd-what-to-know

 

TOD doesn’t matter, response matters both autopsies say “homicide” no matter what spin you read.

  

Homicide in the context of a ME report doesn't automatically mean murder. It has a meaning different than meaning you find in murder/homicide criminal statutes.

 

Sent from my Jackboot using Copatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dric902]

3 minutes ago, TBO said:

 

  

Homicide in the context of a ME report doesn't automatically mean murder. It has a meaning different than meaning you find in murder/homicide criminal statutes.

 

Sent from my Jackboot using Copatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That’s for the courts and jury to decide.

it means the death was “caused” and not natural, accidental, or misadventure.

then the system kicks in, prosecutors, grand juries, investigators, etc

 

.

 

[railfancwb]

3 hours ago, Dric902 said:

The media narrative about the trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin should disturb you if you are concerned with due process. It is a criminal trial, and the jury must use the standard beyond a reasonable doubt to find Chauvin guilty of anything. This article does not advocate for either finding. Instead, it promotes the idea that Chauvin’s guilt or innocence must rely on the facts in the case and whether or not they prove the elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt.
This idea is fundamental to our justice system, but it appears almost no talking heads in the media and none of the activist lawyers recall that principle. The narrative is beginning to sound a lot more like mob justice, with the threat of a repeat performance of last summer’s violent riots hanging in the air. In a civilized society based on due process, the City of Minneapolis and American citizens should accept this. Unfortunately, with the barricaded court building, heightened security, and National Guard at the ready, we seem resigned to it.

The verdict’s basis is the complete set of circumstances present during the nearly full hour of bodycam footage that documents the interaction between the shop employee, George Floyd, his companions, and the Minneapolis police officers summoned to the scene on May 25, 2020. Not anyone’s perception of what should happen based on their own experience, prejudice, or thoughts about America’s history.

 

Legal commentators from the Right like Ben Shapiro and the Left like Barbara McQuade have both noted that based on the facts of the case and the elements of the crimes Chauvin has been charged with, a conviction will be difficult. That is because of due process and the evidentiary standard in a criminal trial matter. Even Vice President Kamala Harris said convicting Chauvin will be difficult. She also said people are conditioned to trust police officers. Perhaps she doesn’t recall the events of the last nine months or the disgusting ad she made with Joe Biden during the campaign.

No American should celebrate either verdict. A guilty verdict does not mean anything other than that the evidence proved the criminal elements beyond a reasonable doubt. An acquittal doesn’t mean George Floyd’s family did not lose a brother and a son. Not every tragic thing that happens is a crime. It is imperative that Americans circle back to the fundamental principles of our justice system, understanding that due process may not always serve anyone’s preferred narrative.

https://pjmedia.com/columns/stacey-lennox/2021/03/31/the-verdict-in-derek-chauvins-trial-is-not-a-reflection-of-anything-other-than-the-facts-of-the-case-n1436643
.

There is a splendid example of such mob justice in the Rodney King situation. Acquit in one court, bring similar but different charges in another court and another venue. The O J Simpson situation also comes to mind... but I don’t know exactly why. 

[tadbart]

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2021 at 11:24 PM, ARP said:

When it comes out at trial that the autopsy results were withheld from day 3 to August 25th and allowed Minneapolis to burn, and 4 officers to be held in jail over a drug od.....the show is over. All 4 will be rich men from the ensuing civil suit.  No wonder they were in such a rush to settle Pink Floyd's OD. This whole deal is going to crumble like the Duke lacrosse case. I see disbarment coming for those who conspired to cover up the exhonerating evidence.

I gotta laugh at some on this thread that think narcan is a silver bullet against od. Floyd had enough fentanyl in him to kill a horse.

Not to nitpick, but technically, he was Blue Floyd.

[Dric902]

20 minutes ago, tadbart said:

Not to nitpick, but technically, he was Blue Floyd.

I think somebody will be seriously disappointed

[TBO]

That’s for the courts and jury to decide.

it means the death was “caused” and not natural, accidental, or misadventure.

then the system kicks in, prosecutors, grand juries, investigators, etc

 

.

 

Actually it's not. Homicide has a fixed definition in ME use and that will be explained to the jury.

 

Homicide/murder have a fixed definition when used in criminal statute elements that will be explained to the jury.

 

Sent from my Jackboot using Copatalk

 

 

 

[Dric902]

That’s what the system is for 

[pipedreams]

"On Thursday, journalist Tim Pool posted a video saying that Derek Chauvin will be acquitted. Pool said “it’s just my opinion,” but based on watching today’s testimony and looking at the evidence thus far, “it appears now that George Floyd may have been in the middle of drug deal when the police approached him.”"

https://www.lawofficer.com/chauvin-trial-drug-deal/

 

[Dric902]

Drug deal, bank robbery, jaywalking

he shouldn’t be dead

MINNEAPOLIS — The pressure of Derek Chauvin’s knees on George Floyd’s neck and back made it virtually impossible for the handcuffed man to breathe as he was pinned face down on a street and would have killed any healthy person, an expert on the respiratory system testified Thursday.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/george-floyd-died-of-low-level-of-oxygen-medical-expert-testifies-derek-chauvin-kept-knee-on-his-neck-majority-of-the-time/ar-BB1frR4h?li=BBnb7Kz

Edited April 9, 2021 by Dric902

[Dric902]

George Floyd died because the police officers restraining him put more strain on his heart than it could handle, according to the chief medical examiner who conducted his autopsy in testimony Friday in the murder trial of Derek Chauvin.
“Mr. Floyd’s use of fentanyl did not cause the subdual or neck restraint, his heart disease did not cause the subdual or the neck restraint,” he said, noting the restraint was the cause of death.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/medical-examiner-says-george-floyds-heart-couldnt-handle-restraint/ar-BB1ftrV8?li=BBnb7Kz

 

[tadbart]

If you can repeatedly say "I can't breathe,"

 

YOU CAN BREATHE.

 

Good riddance to that piece of subhuman detritus. He's far outplayed his worth.

[Dric902]

The Minnesota chief medical examiner who conducted the autopsy on George Floyd’s body and deemed his death a homicide testified Friday in former officer Derek Chauvin’s murder trial.

Dr. Andrew Baker, chief medical examiner for Hennepin County, said the way police held Floyd down and compressed his neck "was just more than Mr. Floyd could take," given the condition of his heart.
Baker testified that Floyd’s "use of fentanyl did not cause the subdural or neck restraint. His heart disease did not cause the subdural or the neck restraint."

He agreed with prosecutor Jerry Blackwell, who asked: "These are items that may have contributed, but weren't the direct cause?"

Baker testified that neither Floyd’s heart problems nor drugs caused his death: "Mr. Floyd’s use of fentanyl did not cause the subdual or neck restraint. His heart disease did not cause the subdual or the neck restraint."

Under cross-examination, though, Baker agreed with Nelson that Floyd’s heart disease and drug use "played a role" in the death.

Dr. Martin Tobin, an expert witness on Thursday said a healthy person subjected to what Floyd endured would also have died.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/chauvin-trial-medical-examiner-autopsy-george-floyd

We don’t let cops execute subhuman detritus, no matter how much ‘worth’ he has left. Cause the next one may be us.

.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Dric902

[Gunboat1]

BS.  We won't be taking/selling drugs, passing counterfeit bills, resisting arrest, acting erratically, and refusing to follow LE directions.  There is ZERO chance that "the next one may be us."  That's race-baiting propaganda.  If the BLM crowd would modify their criminal behavior, follow the law and follow directions when encountering LE, they wouldn't be at the slightest risk.  But the BLM agenda is all about letting blacks do whatever they want, without suffering any repercussions.  News flash:  we ain't buying it.

The CME has obviously been told to get on board the train to railroad Chauvin.  His characterization of "neck compression" is directly refuted by the video evidence.  Lies are still lies.  The Defense is going to have a field day when their turn to present comes.  The Jury will be able to discern the truth, if they care anything about the truth. 

Free Chauvin.  Justice demands it.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Gunboat1

[Dric902]

So we let the cop on the scene kill them for it?

there’s a problem there

taking a stance on a criminal case based on the reports, or worse, the commentary of our favorite ear ticklers is not a good idea. The idea that if he is acquitted “they” will riot and destroy the city while being allowed to by the liberal democrat elite city government traitors....is a self fulfilling prophesy. If five people show up (with 200 others recording on their cell phones) it will be described and an ‘insurrection’ ‘terrorists’ and any other race based innuendo 

if he is convicted.....’kangaroo court’ ‘obviously (which never is) thrown to the sharks’ ‘no justice, no peace’ (oh wait, that’s ‘them’) If the expert agrees with you...you yell it from the rooftops. If he doesn’t...obviously he has been turned. There is no talking to anybody about it, the battle lines are drawn, no matter what.

many people have taken a hardcore political stance on a case that has nothing to do with anything political. But feeds their sense of victimization on both sides.

’they’ are getting away with it

’they’ are rioting

’they’ are scum and we are better off without them

but to then go and attack in order to defend your stance on a case you know very little if anything about based on the perception, or the narrative sold you by a ‘commentator’ who is selling outrage for ratings.

 

think for yourself, don’t assume, don’t prejudge. Larry Flynt proved that the most disgusting, perverted reprobate has rights (just like you and me)

we have friends who are LEO, a Deputy Sheriff is a close friend since high school, the next county Prosecutor and his family have been good friends for years. They can’t stand a bad cop. 
not a mistaken cop, that happens and you have to side with the cop on the scene, but a bad one. 

You don’t know Cauvin or his record of complaints. You know what “side” your on.
When nobody but you, tv hosts, radio hosts has drawn sides.

if BLM/race baiters have drawn sides based on race.......why do you want to do it to?

it’s a criminal case, not a political triangulation.

.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Dric902

[gwalchmai]

1 hour ago, Dric902 said:

...

Dr. Andrew Baker, chief medical examiner for Hennepin County, said the way police held Floyd down and compressed his neck "was just more than Mr. Floyd could take," given the condition of his heart.
Baker testified that Floyd’s "use of fentanyl did not cause the subdural or neck restraint. His heart disease did not cause the subdural or the neck restraint."

Dr. Martin Tobin, an expert witness on Thursday said a healthy person subjected to what Floyd endured would also have died.

Is the neck restraint procedure used on Floyd considered SOP by the Minnesota PD? If so how many "healthy persons" have died from it? OTOH, if Floyd's heart condition was such that he could not endure standard police restraint, perhaps he should not have resisted arrest.

<-- has a "heart condition" and does not hoop fentanyl and rassle with the PoPo.

[gwalchmai]

1 hour ago, Dric902 said:

So we let the cop on the scene kill them for it?

there’s a problem there

Indeed there is. "let the cop on the scene kill them for it" implies a lot of intent which even the craziest BLM idiots in this case lack the temerity to suggest. No reasonable person has accused Chauvin of doing such a thing. 

[Dric902]

4 minutes ago, gwalchmai said:

Is the neck restraint procedure used on Floyd considered SOP by the Minnesota PD? If so how many "healthy persons" have died from it? OTOH, if Floyd's heart condition was such that he could not endure standard police restraint, perhaps he should not have resisted arrest.

<-- has a "heart condition" and does not hoop fentanyl and rassle with the PoPo.

The SOP clearly states to render first aid to a detainee in distress. Not hold him down.

besides, if you go back up a few posts you will see the Chief of Police say that there is no such training g and that Cauvin clearly broke any training and standard in the department. And the training officer, and his immediate superior.

but they've probably all been pressured and/or threatened to get on board, you just know how ‘they’ are.

.

[Dric902]

28 minutes ago, gwalchmai said:

Indeed there is. "let the cop on the scene kill them for it" implies a lot of intent which even the craziest BLM idiots in this case lack the temerity to suggest. No reasonable person has accused Chauvin of doing such a thing. 

He has a history, but that wasn’t what I was saying.

the sentiment that Floyd was human detritus, subhuman, mud people (all I’ve seen on this forum) should be dead and we are better off without him is a result of predetermined and ignorant positions told to them. And they bought it.

(hopefully they will never be in that situation)

“intent” is very specific, but very hard to determine. When was the decision made to refuse aid, remember the other three cops noticed his distress and said “maybe we should turn him over” they were rejected, was the decision to “leave him, he is fine where he is” intent? Or negligence? Or dereliction? 
or third degree?

intent can be seconds before the act, or weeks before. Premeditation is different than intent, nobody  is saying there was premeditation. But was the intent to “choke him out” and it went too far?

this is all for the court to decide. If you think it’s a fair trial with expert testimony (along with a lot of showboating) or a corrupt, lamb slaughter of a good cop, innocent man, martyr, etc

the decision by the screamers to “just know” exactly what happened, why, by who, and we are better off without this person they have never heard of before.......is dumb. To base all that on what they have “heard” from their favorite commentator is.....stupid.

how many months have we been told, repeatedly and loudly, by the “in the know’ that the autopsies say overdose, fentanyl, meth, cocaine, heroin, cholesterol, sugar level, toenail fungus was the cause of death. Only to find out during the actual trial that both autopsies listed the cause of death as homicide (cause by another) and the rest was “contributing factors”

how many ignored that because they wanted to, and weren’t going to hear anything outside of their version of events.

as with so many things in today’s society, blindness or stubbornness prevent people from seeing anything outside their own vision of events. If it comes from them, or have been sold by a media figure they like.

the judicial system works hundreds of thousands of times....unless you disagree. Then out of ignorance, idiocy, or political persuasion, you “just know” it’s rigged.

and you’re a victim, and you’re important, and you matter. And the commentators get bigger contracts.

.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Dric902

[gwalchmai]

35 minutes ago, Dric902 said:

The SOP clearly states to render first aid to a detainee in distress. Not hold him down.

What I took away from the videos was Floyd continually resisting every effort by the cops to control the situation. I don't see how they could "render first aid" when they couldn't get him to be still. I think they had to hold him down. 

Now, I don't expect to change your mind about this, but I look at it from the perspective of how I expect a reasonable citizen to interact with a reasonable cop. Floyd set the tone of the encounter with all the "Don't shoot me, Mr. Officer" shuckin' & jivin', which is a standard tactic to throw police officers off guard. I really believe the best course would have been for the officer to tase Floyd the second time he had to warn him to show his hands. 

[Dric902]

8 minutes ago, gwalchmai said:

What I took away from the videos was Floyd continually resisting every effort by the cops to control the situation. I don't see how they could "render first aid" when they couldn't get him to be still. I think they had to hold him down. 

Now, I don't expect to change your mind about this, but I look at it from the perspective of how I expect a reasonable citizen to interact with a reasonable cop. Floyd set the tone of the encounter with all the "Don't shoot me, Mr. Officer" shuckin' & jivin', which is a standard tactic to throw police officers off guard. I really believe the best course would have been for the officer to tase Floyd the second time he had to warn him to show his hands. 

The video shows him unresponsive at 4 minutes, you can’t resist when your unconscious. The expert testified that he was dead at 5 minutes.

9 minutes and 29 seconds, the other cops noticed his distress, the people on the street (firefighter and a nurse) told him repeatedly that Floyd was unconscious and not breathing for minutes, not just once 

The cop was angry, people get angry, because he had resisted.
A reasonable cop would stop and check if the guy he is holding down loses consciousness and stops breathing. For a solid 5 minutes.

his fellow officers have testified against him, that should tell you something. No “thin blue line” no “code of silence” from fellow cops of all races. 
the interesting argument is going to be the other three being tried together later.
At what point does a junior officer intervene? When were they aware of Floyd’s distress?

plenty of detainees are problematic, argumentative, resistant. Some have mental issues, some are high, some are mad as hell, some are drunk.

what was the case a few years ago, with video, of a cop slamming a black guy on the trunk of a cruiser. Later the video shooed the detainee was squeezing the cops nuts the whole time....case closed. Video cameras on the cops have exonerated more cops than it has convicted. To the never ending complaints of the people who demanded them in the first place.

this is not the case to set your hat on. 
.