Explain one thing about Texas in the cold.

[Batesmotel]

We are hearing from friends in Texas about the burst pipes. I’m not talking about apartments, condominiums or other commercial buildings where the residents don’t have access to the main water shutoff valves. 

Im talking about privately owned, single family houses. 

When the pipes burst and water is flooding in under pressure, not just trickling in from a pipe but under full force. Instead of catching water in every container imaginable and trying to sweep it out the doors, why didn’t more people just turn off the main at the house or at the street. 

I realize that some main valves in the houses were frozen and burst but not many. Most were fine and the breaks were in attics and exterior walls. Very few street shut off valves froze. 
 

It looks like there might be issues with insurance if the owners did not shut off the water coming in. 

[LostinTexas]

Not many people have access to the shut off. Where I live, I can shut off at the meter and it is required, now, to have a shut off between the house and the meter. In our case, no tool is required, other than your hand. There is also no way to drain the underground lines for most of us. At some point in parts of the state, and even around here, water service is run through the attic.What could possibly go wrong?????????? ? If I understand correctly these types service can be drained to prevent freezing, but most don't,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the first time. I am very sure shoddy construction practices play in as well, and don't start on meeting "Spec". Spec is what ever some politician wants it to be, usually.

Big problem? Shallow lines. Ours is only about a foot, if that under ground. We aren't prepared or even have the infrastructure for several days of zero, or near zero temps. We just don't deal with it. That once a once in a lifetime cold snap. Actually the second like it in my lifetime, but much more severe than the last.

I got all giddy over the 8 inches of snow before the real brutal temps. I had covered the meter cover and shut off cover (open air with a plastic covering to the pipe), then it snowed on us. It insulated the ground nicely and periodic running the water kept it that way, until we lost water pressure from all the line breaks. LOL We never lost service completely, but it kept us from freezing.

Edited March 2, 2021 by LostinTexas

[Batesmotel]

From what our friends are saying there is a shut off where the line enters the house. I think this is code nationally. It certainly is here. But a lot of people just pushed water out of the house instead of shutting off the supply. And they should have of been able to shut it off at the meter if nothing else worked. 

[Fog]

I blame public education, the teachers unions, elected officials, etc. 

We are a few generations thick in the ignorant department.

A significant number don't know how to problem solve, don't know how to act for themselves outside of their practiced routine.

We hire men in their twenties who don't know how to read a tape measure.

[jmohme]

I was raised in the great white north. As a result, when we built our house in Texas, people asked me, "Why are you putting your water lines in such deep trench?"

I guess I should haver replied "wait till 2021."

No frozen or busted pipes at my house.

[LostinTexas]

2 hours ago, Batesmotel said:

From what our friends are saying there is a shut off where the line enters the house. I think this is code nationally. It certainly is here. But a lot of people just pushed water out of the house instead of shutting off the supply. And they should have of been able to shut it off at the meter if nothing else worked. 

It isn't "National" code. It isn't practiced, it isn't practical in many cases around here. A tool is needed to close the service off at the meter in most places. Some even lock those shut off valves, others place a tag on it, so it can be done, but they will know it and ask questions.

You still are thinking local ordinance. I understand it is hard to wrap your mind around different places. LostWife has California friends, good people and mean well enough usually, but one of their big drawbacks is how often they say "that isn't legal in California". Yea, and that is why we aren't there. ?

Again, it is a problem that we just so rarely have that no one even thinks about it.

Edited March 2, 2021 by LostinTexas

[TXUSMC]

Texas homeowner here, suburban sub-division. Main water shutoff is under a cover near the side walk and the street. Very common place for it in our state.

I had no busted pipes, and we got down to -2 degrees here. Did not do anything extraordinary, but should have. Covered the outdoor spigots with those styrofoam covers. I think we were just lucky. I should have taken more precautions, like: filling up the bathtub with water to use for flushing; and turning off the water main and turning on all of the indoor faucets to drain the pipes. Like LostinTexas said, this was an extraordinary weather event; however, we knew the temperatures were going to drop significantly, so it behooved us to take the necessary precautions. Never lost power (except for a few rolling blackouts), and never lost water.

I am already working on the preps for the next time, including buying things that will allow us to better handle a weather event like the one we just had. Having dodged the bullet this time, I will be better prepared for the next one.

[Historian]

3 hours ago, Batesmotel said:

From what our friends are saying there is a shut off where the line enters the house. I think this is code nationally. It certainly is here. But a lot of people just pushed water out of the house instead of shutting off the supply. And they should have of been able to shut it off at the meter if nothing else worked. 

I've seen this happen up North when people were asleep.   It's one of the reasons people sometimes leave a dripping sink or open doors under sinks.  (Not sure that really helps).

Or they just don't know. Or have the tools.

[MO Fugga]

1 hour ago, Historian said:

I've seen this happen up North when people were asleep.   It's one of the reasons people sometimes leave a dripping sink or open doors under sinks.  (Not sure that really helps).

Or they just don't know. Or have the tools.

One faucet per floor at a slight run.

[Ricordo]

1 hour ago, Historian said:

 leave a dripping sink

Heck, I do that here in Tampa when the Weatherburro announces temps in the 30s.

[Historian]

1 hour ago, MO Fugga said:

One faucet per floor at a slight run.

Thanks for confirming that.  I just do it...because that's what we did when i was a kid.

[Brad]

2 hours ago, Historian said:

I've seen this happen up North when people were asleep.   It's one of the reasons people sometimes leave a dripping sink or open doors under sinks.  (Not sure that really helps).

Or they just don't know. Or have the tools.

Our common practice has been to leave some faucets at a little more than a drop, like MO Fugga typed.

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Brad

[Paul53]

I was taught "Frost line." How deep the ground freezes. Pipes should be buried below that, but I've no idea where to get the information. IIRC it's 6 feet here in New England.

[Historian]

8 minutes ago, Paul53 said:

I was taught "Frost line." How deep the ground freezes. Pipes should be buried below that, but I've no idea where to get the information. IIRC it's 6 feet here in New England.

Every state has a "land grant" university that is likely to have an institute of food and ag. sciences.  

Duck duck go your state and frost line with the university and you'll likely find a document on the topic.

[railfancwb]

7 hours ago, Batesmotel said:

From what our friends are saying there is a shut off where the line enters the house. I think this is code nationally. It certainly is here. But a lot of people just pushed water out of the house instead of shutting off the supply. And they should have of been able to shut it off at the meter if nothing else worked. 

I have a shutoff at the meter, and one about 10 feet from the house in the front yard. Prior house had one just inside the foundation where the pipe came in, which required someone skilled in limbo. 

[MO Fugga]

1 hour ago, Brad said:

Our common practice has been to leave some faucets at a little more than a drop, like MO Fugga typed.

 

Opportunities have a strange way of teaching you. Made some decent money on water damage repair over the years. A dripper ain't enough. Many survivors insist on one or two running balls out. When your deductible is an  order of magnitude above your bill, why take chances?

[MO Fugga]

1 hour ago, Paul53 said:

I was taught "Frost line." How deep the ground freezes. Pipes should be buried below that, but I've no idea where to get the information. IIRC it's 6 feet here in New England.

Should be that at a minimum everywhere. Common sense. While we're at it, I wonder what it would cost to bury every local power line in America. The way .gov is blowing the cash, I'd rather see that happen too. Real infrastructure improvement.

[railfancwb]

4 hours ago, Historian said:

I've seen this happen up North when people were asleep.   It's one of the reasons people sometimes leave a dripping sink or open doors under sinks.  (Not sure that really helps).

Or they just don't know. Or have the tools.

Dripping sink or other faucet helps because moving water is more difficult to freeze than still water. Open cabinet doors is most useful if the plumbing is in an outside wall. If pipes are in a crawl space, odds are there is cross ventilation which can freeze at least one pipe. 

[Swampfox762]

All I know is it was the Greatest State that I ever did Storm work in.  Ike. 2008.

Been on alot of storm restoration.  Wonderful and Thankful people.  Then, ...there's Texas.  I could tell ya stories bout that Hurricane...but then I'd have to get a box of ...ya know..."the thing"...

[LostinTexas]

2 hours ago, Paul53 said:

I was taught "Frost line." How deep the ground freezes. Pipes should be buried below that, but I've no idea where to get the information. IIRC it's 6 feet here in New England.

https://www.brickwoodovens.com/frost-line-map

We are in about the 7 inch area. Dallas falls into that too, maybe 8 inch. Yes lines should be buried below the frost line.

I went out an measured at the meter thanks to this thread, and we are about 15 inches. Double the frost line for "average" penetration. We didn't have any problems, none of our neighbors did either, but it was common.

[Al Czervik]

I had really relatives in SOUTH Tejas that had lows of zero for seven days.  It had never happened before.  Everything broke.

[MO Fugga]

We're in a fcking Interglacial.

[holyjohnson]

i worked in Flood Restoration for years and even the best thought out codes can`t compete with an unprecedented act of Nature.

i have seen interior pipes freeze a lot of times that you wouldn't think could get that cold but split copper open a half inch wide.

supply lines under sinks are notorious for freezing at night and bursting when the sun comes up, opening the cabinet under the sink is usually all it takes to stop it but most people don't know when to do that.

Edited March 3, 2021 by holyjohnson

[LostinTexas]

2 hours ago, Al Czervik said:

I had really relatives in SOUTH Tejas that had lows of zero for seven days.  It had never happened before.  Everything broke.

That's what made things so interesting. We rarely see a week of never hitting 32º. We Have Never seen 2º and -2º back to back. In fact both were record low temps, and not reaching the mid 20's, no sun, and the rest of the near perfect storm. Our weather patterns are interesting. West means more than south many times.

Good times, and even though our northern brethren deal with it on a regular basis, we don't. In fact we never have in recorded history. The only thing we had going our way was the snow on the ground that helped insulate.

Edited March 3, 2021 by LostinTexas

[Historian]

9 hours ago, railfancwb said:

Dripping sink or other faucet helps because moving water is more difficult to freeze than still water. Open cabinet doors is most useful if the plumbing is in an outside wall. If pipes are in a crawl space, odds are there is cross ventilation which can freeze at least one pipe. 

Exactly, what i remember the reasoning of the drip being.