Notre Dame is burning down

[tadbart]

This sickens me. The Cathedral is a WORLD HERITAGE SITE.  There's only one. And it made a dent in defining who we are as humans. It was build in the 1100s. If we were to showcase what we have done as a species to a visiting alien civilization, this building would be on the tour. Shame on us all, if it was arson.

An example of another desecration of a World Heritage Site would be the Turks using the Sphinx for target practice in the early 1900s.

 

Things like this hurt my heart.

[tadbart]

8 hours ago, KWalrad said:

I haven't heard an update in awhile, but I've yet to hear of any related fatalities.

Masonry can be rebuilt. Lost lives not so much. While the loss of History may be great, the lack of lives lost is far greater.

 

Perspective, my Friends.

Bullshit.

 

We, as a species, are of far greater value as a whole, (even spanning 3+ generations of workers to complete this building), than we are individually. That building, its history, what it has survived, what it represents, is greater than any one of us. It defines Humanity more than ANY individual life or lives, ever could.

I'd step in front of a terrorist who threatened that, the Great Wall, the Pyramids, Angkor Wat, Machu Picchu, Easter Island, Petra, or the Washington Monument. Tell me you wouldn't.

 

There are certain things that should be "hands-off." Civilized warfighters know this. People who wipe their asses with their bare hands, not so much.

[Moshe]

I am not Catholic, but old Cathedrals have been a thing of mine.  In every Central and South America, I made it a habit (no pun intended) to visit them.  I like old architecture.  I chose not to go into the catacombs as the entrance was too small for my back pack, and the sign said in Spanish that it was an earthquake prone area.  So, I chose to examine the upper part,  The large paintings, the gilded rooms, the grates in the floor where you could see the stacked up bones.  When I went to Central and South America I was a site seeing junkie.  In Ecuador, they have a huge statue of Mary on par with the Jesus in Brazil.  You could climb inside Mary there were pictures everywhere, and stairs all the way to her head, which was like a large observation deck.  There was a small Mercado below her.

[M&P15T]

1. On Aljezzera's (and some other muslim "news outlet") facebook page, the burning of Notre Dame is getting many positive emjois from people with arabic/muslim names.

2. This year there have been over 1000 instances of churches in France being burned, desecrated, vandalized, etc.

3. There have been several attempts at destroying Notre Dame by muslims in the last several years.

4. 3 years ago, 3 muslim women packed a vehicle with propane tanks, parked it by the cathedral, and attempted to detonate it. They were stopped by police, once french LEO was stabbed in the abdomen during the apprehension.

5. Once of the above three muslim women was sentenced to 8 years in prison, just hours before Notre Dame burned.

[pipedreams]

M&P15T is correct in all the above and there is all sorts of trash being posted.  The below is just an example.

If to offensive I will remove it, let me know.

[Ricordo]

Quote

If to offensive I will remove it, let me know.

No, please, no.

The moment we avoid reality, we enter into a world of delusion. We don't want to be like them, I gather.

[Ricordo]

Looking at a bright side, with today's engineering techniques and materials, when work is finally completed the structure could last for another 1,000 years. Easy.

Just think of it as bringing it up to code.

?

 

EDIT: Meanwhile, no one can take away the memory of having French bread with butter and coffee in the area of the front plaza.

So, if arson was the cause...screw you. I can still taste it. And the feeling of admiration. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Ricordo

[Moshe]

16 minutes ago, pipedreams said:

M&P15T is correct in all the above and there is all sorts of trash being posted.  The below is just an example.

If to offensive I will remove it, let me know.

I am trying to figure out how Notre Dame is Anti-Semitic?  It is a building.  Not a gas chamber.

[M&P15T]

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=u0kBH_1555362516

[SC Tiger]

13 hours ago, kerbie18 said:

On the news just now, it looks like some of the structure was saved. The front face of the cathedral looks pretty much intact.

I hope somebody had the time to grab all those priceless relics and get them the hell out of the building. Hell, the original crown of thorns is on display there (if you believe the stories).

If this turns out to be arson, they need to be put against a wall and shot. Unbelievable...

It seems the stone was saved.  And hopefully the windows.

If it's arson, the French will show exactly how vicious they can be.  Say what you want, you press the right button and France can be quite violent towards her enemies.  You just have to get the politicians out of the way and let the ass kickers kick ass.

13 hours ago, KWalrad said:

I haven't heard an update in awhile, but I've yet to hear of any related fatalities.

Masonry can be rebuilt. Lost lives not so much. While the loss of History may be great, the lack of lives lost is far greater.

 

Perspective, my Friends.

This.  Stone, wood and glass can be replaced.  The guys who built it wouldn't want someone to die to save it.  It can be built again.

10 hours ago, Fog said:

Plan to rebuild.

I guess the Macaroni has already appealed to the international community for skilled craftsmen. Something like  that will take more than your average handyman.

There are schools that teach that.  One is in Charleston, SC.  Another is in Savannah, GA I believe.  And I'm sure there is at least one in France, and probably Italy and London.  And many other places.

Were I in either school I would give my left testicle to get in on the rebuild as an intern.  Even if it's just carrying buckets of plaster or something.  

Were I a professional I'd show up with my tools in a van and say "where do I start?"

9 hours ago, Historian said:

The type of people who have the skill and knowledge to reproduce 12th century work like this....are mostly history themselves....the ones alive are precious few.

As stated above - there are schools that teach that.  Mostly from a historical perspective.

Plus - if we did it before, we can learn to do it again.

7 hours ago, Fog said:

From a practical standpoint the rebuilding will be faster just from the simple fact of power tools and big machines.

Large pieces that took a year to jack into place can now be lifted and secured in a half hour.

I think the original workman would be pleased to see that what they built was valued enough by the current generation to rebuild it.

The trees are still available. Stone is still available. Plenty of copper to be had.

It won't be exactly the same, but I can promise you those who work on it will give it their very best and instill their own soul into the work.

It is a worthy endeavor.

France will rebuild this.  Will give the rare "Fvck you" to anyone who tries to stop them.

IMO they will do it in a way that doesn't exactly replicate the original structure but pays homage to it.  Yet it is stronger, safer, and hopefully more fire retardant.

[SC Tiger]

53 minutes ago, pipedreams said:

M&P15T is correct in all the above and there is all sorts of trash being posted.  The below is just an example.

If to offensive I will remove it, let me know.

Trash gonna post trash, regardless of religion or nationality.  Fvck them all.

[pipedreams]

This is one persons opinion.

 

[Moshe]

4 minutes ago, pipedreams said:

This is one persons opinion.

 

Maybe.  But, clearly from a lot of these tweets there has been wild speculation all over the place.  The last time Muslims rose up they burned a lot of places.  I doubt that they would attack one cathedral out of many, and not several at once.  Plus, they would be proud of it.  Marcon can't keep it a secret if it was, because they would be using Al Jazera and the BBC to claim credit,

[SC Tiger]

IMO the ideas of arson are a bit premature.  With renovations going on it is quite possible that it was done by accident.  While the French will handle any arsonist without mercy, for now I would tend to believe it was an accident.

Timing makes sense too if the renovation crew got off at 5.  Someone got sloppy in their final few minutes at work.  It happens.

[Ricordo]

It strikes me as odd that even while the fire was still smoldering, it was being investigated as an accident and ruling out arson and/or terrorism.

Just sayin'.

Though decades of quality olfactory sensitivity in me might lead to that possibility. In addition to ye olde adage, never trust a leftist blindly.

 

[gwalchmai]

Whether it was an accident or not, the muslim invasion of Europe (and the US) is real and it's time to put an end to it. If it takes a Reichstag fire to kindle the Crusade we need so be it.

[Moshe]

2 minutes ago, gwalchmai said:

Whether it was an accident or not, the muslim invasion of Europe (and the US) is real and it's time to put an end to it. If it takes a Reichstag fire to kindle the Crusade we need so be it.

I am not for the wholesale genocide of anyone, for obvious reasons.  Now, I am for wet work teams taking out Jihadist Muslims, but leaving folks like the Kurds in peace.  There are varying differences between Suni's and Shiites and so forth.  Some Muslims aren't Muslim enough for the radicals, and thus are raped and slaughtered at will.  You need to be worried about a broad brush, especially when you talk about genocide, the ugliest thing one "human" can do to another.

[Historian]

2 hours ago, SC Tiger said:

Plus - if we did it before, we can learn to do it again.

France will rebuild this.  Will give the rare "Fvck you" to anyone who tries to stop them.

 

I suspect this will be a wonderful learning opportunity for people like that.  To have the ability to work on a major reconstruction like this will allow us to truly understand the way things were done.

I've always admired people who such skills.    Wish i were there to...perhaps...learn something new and build something wonderful.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Historian

[Historian]

1 hour ago, pipedreams said:

This is one persons opinion.

 

But then...who will my French uncle complain about? 

 

[janice6]

55 minutes ago, SC Tiger said:

IMO the ideas of arson are a bit premature.  With renovations going on it is quite possible that it was done by accident.  While the French will handle any arsonist without mercy, for now I would tend to believe it was an accident.

Timing makes sense too if the renovation crew got off at 5.  Someone got sloppy in their final few minutes at work.  It happens.

It is a possibility.  

[Ricordo]

Smile. Determination soothes.

 

St. Martin's Cathedral, Ypres. After WW1.

 

St. Martin's Cathedral, Ypres. After restoration.

[janice6]

Many times the contents have more value than the structure.

[gwalchmai]

1 hour ago, Moshe said:

I am not for the wholesale genocide of anyone, for obvious reasons.  Now, I am for wet work teams taking out Jihadist Muslims, but leaving folks like the Kurds in peace.  There are varying differences between Suni's and Shiites and so forth.  Some Muslims aren't Muslim enough for the radicals, and thus are raped and slaughtered at will.  You need to be worried about a broad brush, especially when you talk about genocide, the ugliest thing one "human" can do to another.

Maybe, but then of course I didn't talk about genocide. If you want to put words in someone's mouth I recommend you put them in  your own.

 

[Moshe]

2 minutes ago, gwalchmai said:

Maybe, but then of course I didn't talk about genocide. If you want to put words in someone's mouth I recommend you put them in  your own.

 

The Reichstag inference implies it.  We all know Hitler took it over for the purpose of the genocide of blacks, Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and the infirmed.  64 million people were destroyed.  So, I would remind you to please choose your words carefully.  Words do have meaning, unless you are Hindu, and they use the oxymoron of words to say words have no meaning.

[gwalchmai]

12 minutes ago, Moshe said:

The Reichstag inference implies it.  We all know Hitler took it over for the purpose of the genocide of blacks, Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and the infirmed.  64 million people were destroyed.  So, I would remind you to please choose your words carefully.  Words do have meaning, unless you are Hindu, and they use the oxymoron of words to say words have no meaning.

The Reichstag fire reference is just an illustration of using an event as a call to action, even though the event wasn't actually caused by the problem the action is stated to solve.

BTW, Hitler did not use the Reichstag fire to initiate genocide. It was used to initiate action against his communist rivals. Nazi persecution of others followed later, after the Nazis had consolidated their power. Had I wanted to refer to an initiating event for genocide I would have used Krystalnacht.