Jump to content
BamaBud

Wrist Breaker?

Recommended Posts

After shooting a .375 JDJ chambered T/C Contender.....yes I would shoot that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T337A using Tapatalk

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The gun is a muzzle loader. That's why it's legal. Recommended load: 40 grain of black powder. 1/2 oz of shot which would not be at all difficult to handle. 6 pellets of 0 buck or five 00 buck would be slightly more than a half ounce and 9 pellets of 00 buck is a little over an ounce. (1.1 oz) Black powder is supposed to be loaded volume-to-volume, shot to powder so anything approximating a standard 12 gauge buckshot load would be double the recommended load but I think the recommendation  is not our of consideration to the strength of the gun but of the degree of recoil.

So would I shoot it? Yes. but I'd work up a load that was stout but not uncontrollable to shoot. And I'd use Hodgdon's triple seven BP substitute which doesn't have that great Black powder smell, but is a lot easier to clean up and is a lot less corrosive.

Edited by Borg warner
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Borg warner said:

The gun is a muzzle loader. That's why it's legal. Recommended load: 40 grain of black powder. 1/2 oz of shot which would not be at all difficult to handle. 6 pellets of 0 buck or five 00 buck would be slightly more than a half ounce and 9 pellets of 00 buck is a little over an ounce. (1.1 oz) Black powder is supposed to be loaded volume-to-volume, shot to powder so anything approximating a standard 12 gauge buckshot load would be double the recommended load but I think the recommendation  is not our of consideration to the strength of the gun but of the degree of recoil.

So would I shoot it? Yes. but I'd work up a load that was stout but not uncontrollable to shoot. And I'd use Hodgdon's triple seven BP substitute which doesn't have that great Black powder smell, but is a lot easier to clean up and is a lot less corrosive.

Agreed.  BP makes it legal and doesn't have near the recoil of a smokeless powder round.  Sort of a smaller, lighter Howdah pistol.  Trouble is, once you fire this gun you won't be able to see what happened to the target for all the smoke. I would shoot it, but would not want one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Citra47 said:

Agreed.  BP makes it legal and doesn't have near the recoil of a smokeless powder round.  Sort of a smaller, lighter Howdah pistol.  Trouble is, once you fire this gun you won't be able to see what happened to the target for all the smoke. I would shoot it, but would not want one. 

Triple 7 BP substitute is slightly less smoky than BP and even with black powder it doesn't totally blind you although a full power load would produce more smoke than their :Recommended" load. And as far as the recoil, with the recommended half ounce shot load it would be easy to shoot but with a one ounce buckshot load and enough Black powder, it could be just as powerful and recoil as much as a regular smokeless 00 Buck load.

It's black powder. Recoil depends on how much powder you use. That's why they recommend 40 grains of FFg and 1/2 ounce of shot. that's like a load for a .410. A one ounce load with 80 grains would be like a regular smokeless 12 gauge 00 buck load and would cause pain on both ends.

I like the gun. it even comes with rosewood grips and no extra cost according the GunsAmerica link.

207diablo-blue-rosewood_107.jpg

Edited by Borg warner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if I would want to shoot it much, but it sure does look good!

I kind of think that in a bad situation, you could pull that out and the bad guys might just turn and run away screaming like a girl! 😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should have made a bird's head grip to absorb more recoil.  As my father would say, "It kills on one end, and cripples on the other."

Edited by Moshe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/12/2019 at 5:28 PM, Borg warner said:

Triple 7 BP substitute is slightly less smoky than BP and even with black powder it doesn't totally blind you although a full power load would produce more smoke than their :Recommended" load. And as far as the recoil, with the recommended half ounce shot load it would be easy to shoot but with a one ounce buckshot load and enough Black powder, it could be just as powerful and recoil as much as a regular smokeless 00 Buck load.

It's black powder. Recoil depends on how much powder you use. That's why they recommend 40 grains of FFg and 1/2 ounce of shot. that's like a load for a .410. A one ounce load with 80 grains would be like a regular smokeless 12 gauge 00 buck load and would cause pain on both ends.

I like the gun. it even comes with rosewood grips and no extra cost according the GunsAmerica link.

207diablo-blue-rosewood_107.jpg

If I don't stop looking at this, I'm going to end up ordering one of those freakish things!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jmohme said:

If I don't stop looking at this, I'm going to end up ordering one of those freakish things!

Did you see the nickel with black grips? Gorgeous!

diablo-nickel-black-grip_94.jpg

diablo-nickel-black-grip_65.jpg

Edited by BamaBud

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was a kid, one of my buddies cut down a .410 single shot into a "pistol".  We were shooting it in the farm yard while our fathers were talking in the house.  I had to hold the barrel down with my left hand, when shooting at a peach crate about 20 feet away.  The recoil was very impressive, along with the extreme muzzle flip.  If the Peach crate was hit, it would lift the crate off the ground and move it a good 10 feet.  

My father came out and saw what we were doing, and gave us crap about how we were holding the pistol.  He shot handguns while a Deputy Sherriff.  He show us the proper grip and stance, and squeezed off the round.  The barrel flipped up and slightly creased his forehead.  he was not pleased!  We felt vindicated. 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BamaBud said:

Did you see the nickel with black grips? Gorgeous!

diablo-nickel-black-grip_94.jpg

diablo-nickel-black-grip_65.jpg

I did. And I also saw a set where you get one of each, but both in wood. Thats ok though. I kind of prefer the rosewood grips on either of them.

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-03-14 at 12.53.21 PM copy.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/18/2019 at 11:19 AM, blueiron said:

I can foresee some of the SASS people falling all over themselves to acquire these.

Um, no. Zero interest and probably not legal for SASS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it is an AOW.  Then, after firing it is off the ER for the shooter, and the BG, is off to change is underwear, unless it is point blank shooting.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 4:56 AM, Moshe said:

Well, it is an AOW.  Then, after firing it is off the ER for the shooter, and the BG, is off to change is underwear, unless it is point blank shooting.

Firing it would not send anyone to the ER if they use the recommended load. It's a muzzle loader and can't be loaded with standard 12 gauge shells. And being a Muzzle loader you can load it as hot or as mild as you want. The recommended load is 40 grain of black powder and 1/2 oz of shot. and a a half ounce of shot would be less than 5 pellets of 00 Buck,

And to create a full power 12 gauge load you'd have to effectively DOUBLE the recommend e load and use over an ounce of shot (9 pellets) and then muzzle loading shotguns are loaded not by weight, but volume-to-volume, but if the weight is doubled, then so is the powder charge.

I have an old  Joseph Manton and sons 10 Gauge chambered for 2 7/8th inch shells. when I first got the gun (a barn find) back in 1968 those shells we still available and I bought a Lee loader and reloaded them so I know what the recoil of that gun with factory ammo is like and I can closely approximate the original loads using black powder and what I do for shells is I get 3 inch magnum shells and pull them apart, cut off the crimp, load volume-to volume shot and powder and  I use the magnum shot cup that I pull from the shells and it helps to tighten my shot patterns somewhat but I have to trim the petals of the shot cup so that there's room in the shell for an over-shot card wad and I glue that wad into place because I don't have a roll crimp tool.

The point is that I have experience with loading Black powder in shotguns and I know for a fact that this thing does not have to be a "wrist-breaker if you don't want it to be. I think a good defensive load would be about 60 grains of BP and whatever amount of #3 buck would go with that charge. Then if you wanted a tighter pattern you would use a shot cup and if you wanted a wider pattern there's a company called Polywad that makes something called a Spred-R wad that make a wider pattern.

The curious thing about this muzzle loading shotgun pistol is that it doesn't have a provision for a ramrod below the barrel but I assume that one comes with the gun.

 

 

Edited by Borg warner
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see that.  All my shotguns, except for pests like squirrels trying to destroy a fruit tree are all 00 buck or slugs.  So, you have a solid point.  It is just another reason why I would not want one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Moshe said:

I can see that.  All my shotguns, except for pests like squirrels trying to destroy a fruit tree are all 00 buck or slugs.  So, you have a solid point.  It is just another reason why I would not want one.

Right. because your only choice is to either load it to max and have it be a wrist breaker or load it down so it isn't as painful to shoot an have it be underpowered. But we aren't talking the ultimate home defense weapon here anyway. it's a two shot and takes minutes, not second to reload.  But loaded properly it could be effective if two shots were all you needed. Personally, for serious purposes I'd prefer a Glock 21 with 13+1 rounds of Federal 230 grain HST Plus+P for my home defense handgun. But this gun is just for fun.

Their recommended load would only accommodate 4 pellets of 00 buck and would be underpowered but depending on the actual recoil characteristics of the gun an how well the grip fits the hand, I think you might be able to create a compromise load using 9 pellets of smaller #1 buck that had a recoil that was in-between the wimp load and a full power load. It would be like using reduced recoil buckshot in a regular shotgun and would still be more effective than most handguns at close range.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had extensions put on my Glock 21.  With one in the chamber I have 18. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/15/2019 at 6:52 PM, Borg warner said:

Firing it would not send anyone to the ER if they use the recommended load. It's a muzzle loader and can't be loaded with standard 12 gauge shells. And being a Muzzle loader you can load it as hot or as mild as you want. The recommended load is 40 grain of black powder and 1/2 oz of shot. and a a half ounce of shot would be less than 5 pellets of 00 Buck,

And to create a full power 12 gauge load you'd have to effectively DOUBLE the recommend e load and use over an ounce of shot (9 pellets) and then muzzle loading shotguns are loaded not by weight, but volume-to-volume, but if the weight is doubled, then so is the powder charge.

I have an old Joseph Manton and sons 10 Gauge chambered for 2 7/8th inch shells. when I first got the gun (a barn find) back in 1968 those shells we still available and I bought a Lee loader and reloaded them so I know what the recoil of that gun with factory ammo is like and I can closely approximate the original loads using black powder and what I do for shells is I get 3 inch magnum shells and pull them apart, cut off the crimp, load volume-to volume shot and powder and  I use the magnum shot cup that I pull from the shells and it helps to tighten my shot patterns somewhat but I have to trim the petals of the shot cup so that there's room in the shell for an over-shot card wad and I glue that wad into place because I don't have a roll crimp tool.

The point is that I have experience with loading Black powder in shotguns and I know for a fact that this thing does not have to be a "wrist-breaker if you don't want it to be. I think a good defensive load would be about 60 grains of BP and whatever amount of #3 buck would go with that charge. Then if you wanted a tighter pattern you would use a shot cup and if you wanted a wider pattern there's a company called Polywad that makes something called a Spred-R wad that make a wider pattern.

The curious thing about this muzzle loading shotgun pistol is that it doesn't have a provision for a ramrod below the barrel but I assume that one comes with the gun.

 

 

I recall that name from an old Shooter's Bible, 1984 IIRC, article about dueling pistols. That shotgun sounds like an interesting piece of history.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...