ARP Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 This is NOT a political type question. From the recent proposal of the NEW GREEN DEAL, in 10-12 years ALL fossil fuels will be defunct/eliminated/rendered obsolete. I have heard that the technology to store and re distibute electrical power gathered by wind and solar is just not there. We obviously can make some of it, but the process to reap the benefits vs ROI is greatly in the red. Now my first ponderings on this subject since I first heard of this proposal was we store in small quantities by battery(Volt /Tesla/Prius), so the problem of storing large quantities that are needed is......? I'm going to search around a bit, but some of the crap that is out on the internet is well, crap. And I'm not even sure what I am thinking currently is correct. I know T. Boone Pickens lost I think a $billion looking at wind farms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huaco Kid Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I know what happens to car batteries at -20° / -30°. What happens to electric cars at those temperatures? What happens to wind / solar storage banks at those temps? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 One way to store energy is to convert sunlight into biomass via photosynthesis, then convert the biomass into carbon via pressure. The resulting carbon been shown to be very stable and extractable. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huaco Kid Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, gwalchmai said: One way to store energy is to convert sunlight into biomass via photosynthesis, then convert the biomass into carbon via pressure. The resulting carbon been shown to be very stable and extractable. I've been to large industrial complexes (and I'm positive these are all experimental setups, proving the company can be a good environmental partner) (and I don't know any of the science) where the combustion effluent is scrubbed with a liquid slurry. The slurry is eventually rotated into tanks where microbes are introduced. The microbes digest the pollutants. They "grow bugs". That eat pollution. They also said that the "bugs" produce "bug farts" that are combustible. The ones I've seen are like hobby farms. I don't think they ever harvested the farts into a useful fuel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huaco Kid Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 In fact, (at one place, anyway) they said their boilers don't produce enough (or they can't capture it?) pollutants to keep the microbes alive. So it's some guys job to regularly "feed the bugs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve4102 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 45 minutes ago, Huaco Kid said: I know what happens to car batteries at -20° / -30°. What happens to electric cars at those temperatures? What happens to wind / solar storage banks at those temps? Lithium batteries, stop working at low temps rendering the electric car useless is cold climates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve4102 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, gwalchmai said: One way to store energy is to convert sunlight into biomass via photosynthesis, then convert the biomass into carbon via pressure. The resulting carbon been shown to be very stable and extractable. What type of energy is used to create the pressure needed for this conversion? Coal fired electricity, or nuclear power, or fossil fuel energy? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, steve4102 said: What type of energy is used to create the pressure needed for this conversion? Coal fired electricity, or nuclear power, or fossil fuel energy? Solar was used in the project I've seen. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve4102 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 In the Democrat supported Green New Deal, they will demand that all air travel be eliminated in ten years, High speed rail will replace cars, truck and planes, unless you live in Hawaii then you are screwed, All coal, fossil fuel and nuclear power plants will eliminated in ten years, every house and building in America will be torn down and rebuilt or renovated to comply with the New Green Deal energy regulations, cow farts will also be eliminated, ... That's just for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 We could also harvest methane from cows. One idea is to install a large, um, range hood over a feedlot. Another more distributed method would involve belts and hoses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve4102 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, gwalchmai said: Solar was used in the project I've seen. What type of energy is used to manufacture the batteries that store the solar energy. What effects does the disposal and recycle of billions of batteries have on the environment and what type of energy is used to recycle these batteries? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 minute ago, steve4102 said: In the Democrat supported Green New Deal, they will demand that all air travel be eliminated in ten years, High speed rail will replace cars, truck and planes, unless you live in Hawaii then you are screwed, All coal, fossil fuel and nuclear power plants will eliminated in ten years, every house and building in America will be torn down and rebuilt or renovated to comply with the New Green Deal energy regulations, cow farts will also be eliminated, ... That's just for starters. Well, I'm sure they didn't mean ALL air travel. There will always be a need for GND administrators to get to global summits. Also, Hawaii won't be a problem once we get that bridge completed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve4102 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, gwalchmai said: We could also harvest methane from cows. One idea is to install a large, um, range hood over a feedlot. Another more distributed method would involve belts and hoses. What about cows and cattle that free range? What type of energy would be used to manufacture these "hoods" and to collect this methane gas? What type of energy would be used to transports this harvested MG to the processing plant and what type of energy would be use to do the actual processing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve4102 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, gwalchmai said: Well, I'm sure they didn't mean ALL air travel. There will always be a need for GND administrators to get to global summits. Also, Hawaii won't be a problem once we get that bridge completed. In the NGD, build High speed rail across the ocean. Did you read it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 minute ago, steve4102 said: What type of energy is used to manufacture the batteries that store the solar energy. What effects does the disposal and recycle of billions of batteries have on the environment and what type of energy is used to recycle these batteries? No batteries. Solar is used to create convection currents in oceans, which cover the dead plankton which builds up in sediment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 minute ago, steve4102 said: What about cows and cattle that free range? What type of energy would be used to manufacture these "hoods" and to collect this methane gas? What type of energy would be used to transports this harvested MG to the processing plant and what type of energy would be use to do the actual processing? Free range cattle use the "belt & hose" methods. The hoods could be made by beating metal with hammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 BTW, the "belt & hose" method can also be adapted to humans eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARP Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, steve4102 said: In the Democrat supported Green New Deal, they will demand that all air travel be eliminated in ten years, High speed rail will replace cars, truck and planes, unless you live in Hawaii then you are screwed, All coal, fossil fuel and nuclear power plants will eliminated in ten years, every house and building in America will be torn down and rebuilt or renovated to comply with the New Green Deal energy regulations, cow farts will also be eliminated, ... That's just for starters. Captain Obvious, no need to turn this thread into something political. Stick to the technical side please. I ask the scientific because the only thing I have heard mainly is that the technology to store the harvested sun/wind power does not exist, hence the reason for my question. Yes, we are all aware that the pie in the sky GD is an absolute failure, when I become engaged in the future with some knuckle head in conversation about why it is not currently feasable to store the energy, I would like to be able to explain why. Wonder why I am just now hearing about the short comings of the battery powered cars and cold weather? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBO Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Nuclear power isn't a fossil fuel.... do they support it...Sent from my Jack boot using Copatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBO Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 What type of energy is used to manufacture the batteries that store the solar energy. What effects does the disposal and recycle of billions of batteries have on the environment and what type of energy is used to recycle these batteries?Why worry about cost when everything is free? Sent from my Jack boot using Copatalk 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve4102 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, ARP said: Wonder why I am just now hearing about the short comings of the battery powered cars and cold weather? Sarcasm, I hope. Do you own any battery(Lithium) powered hand tools as in drills etc? If so, put a freshly charged battery in the freezer for several hours. Then take it out and see how well it performs. Odds are it won'y even fire up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, ARP said: Yes, we are all aware that the pie in the sky GD is an absolute failure, when I become engaged in the future with some knuckle head in conversation about why it is not currently feasable to store the energy, I would like to be able to explain why. You mean "Because it's a ******* stupid idea, you blathering idiot!" isn't a sufficient explanation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARP Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 There is an automated dairy farm out near Hershey. They harvest the cow pooh and it produces methane and they use the methane to somehow power a generator for the lights and automation. The only thing they have to do is feed the cows. The cows sleep on water bed bladders, they use shredded peanut shells as a moisture soaking method on the floors, auto pooper squeege rolls thru about every hour or so and cleans the floor and that is collected to make methane. Laser guided auto milk collectors are employed via a microchip the cow wears on a collar. The cow is trained that when it feels the need to milk, it gets a mollassis flavored cookie and it walks to a milking station where the cookie is located, the microchip activates the laser guided milk collector and it fits itself to the cows teets and does it's thing. It happens about 3 times a day or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARP Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, gwalchmai said: You mean "Because it's a ****ing stupid idea, you blathering idiot!" isn't a sufficient explanation? I'd like to believe that I'm a bit more intelligent than using that as an explanation. I can always pull out your explanation as a back up plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwalchmai Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, ARP said: I'd like to believe that I'm a bit more intelligent than using that as an explanation. I can always pull out your explanation as a back up plan. The problem of course it that anyone who buys into the GND nonsense is not going to be able to understand a logical explanation. But I commend your efforts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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