If Glock Never Happened

[Eric]

If the Glock pistol had never been built, what do you think things would look like today? What type of pistol and what brands do you think hold Glock's current market share? What pistol or pistols would hold that 65%+ of police pistol contracts? How about military pistol contracts that Glock holds? How much impact did Glock have on the state of firearms technology and on design, manufacturing and buying trends?

What would a world without Glock look like?

[Rabbi]

I think a popular polymer pistol was going to happen.  Glock was not even first. 

 

I do think Police would have used revolvers longer.  In the U.S. the Glock has had it's most profound commercial effect on the LE market.  

[Eric]

8 minutes ago, Rabbi said:

I think a popular polymer pistol was going to happen.  Glock was not even first. 

 

I do think Police would have used revolvers longer.  In the U.S. the Glock has had it's most profound commercial effect on the LE market.  

I wonder if Beretta would have gotten more traction here, if Glock had never made the scene? I never cared much for the Berettas personally, but it being chosen as the US Armed Forces sidearm AND not having to contend with the competition from Glock might have changed the game for them.

[Rabbi]

4 minutes ago, Eric said:

I wonder if Beretta would have gotten more traction here, if Glock had never made the scene? I never cared much for the Berettas personally, but it being chosen as the US Armed Forces sidearm AND not having to contend with the competition from Glock might have changed the game for them.

I was actually considering posting that I thought the Beretta would probably have been a lot more of a hit. (for the reasons you stated)

[Spats McGee]

5 hours ago, Rabbi said:

I think a popular polymer pistol was going to happen.  Glock was not even first. 

 

I do think Police would have used revolvers longer.  In the U.S. the Glock has had it's most profound commercial effect on the LE market.  

I agree that a polymer pistol would have happened.  I'm not sure that any one company would have cracked open the LE market the way Glock did, but someone would have come up with a "high capacity" (as compared to revolvers), polymer semiauto soon enough.

[JJHNSN]

Wow...that's an interesting question @Eric It's hard to imagine a world without the Glock, it's influence has been so pervasive. I assume that others would have developed polymer handguns (as they did ... see Heckler and Koch). I'm not sure if the striker action would have gained as much popularity, hard to say though. Perhaps it would have been more a DA/SA trigger system with a decocker, without a safety like SIG or with safeties like HK, etc.

[OV1kenobi]

On 9/9/2017 at 2:54 AM, Eric said:

I wonder if Beretta would have gotten more traction here, if Glock had never made the scene? I never cared much for the Berettas personally, but it being chosen as the US Armed Forces sidearm AND not having to contend with the competition from Glock might have changed the game for them.

Along with perhaps the CZ-75 series of pistols.

[Nestor]

HK was first with the polymer frame pistol if I can recollect correctly. Glock difference was possible because he approached the project with manufacturer's mind, never being influenced by previous exposure to the gun market.

That's why his manufacturing cost was so much lower than competition. That's also why the pistol became so popular with budget stranded police agencies and subsequently civilian users. I love that simplicity. It's the only pistol that I can work on myself without any discomfort. It's reliable, functional and robust. What's not to like?

I'm pretty sure that HK would follow up with more pistols if not for Glock and polymer would eventually become a new standard anyway, but thanks to Glock we know it went as it went. Great benefit to all of us.

[Maccabeus]

 Weren't S&W 3rd gen guns making pretty wide inroads into the LE market?  (They were at my old agency and in my area but i don't know about national trends).

 We went through semi auto transition from Smith revolvers to Smith semis.  Glock became an option a few years later, but wasn't the issued side arm for some time.

 If Glock (and it's marketing and LE push) hadn't come along I'd imagine a preponderance of stainless and alloy Smiths along with other companies' copies of those metal guns and a smattering of new polymers from whatever other companies might be pushing them to market.

 

 

[JJHNSN]

Ultimately the "what if" game is kind of pointless, we must admire Glock's innovation, truly one of the great ones in firearms history. HK has a long history of failing to deliver on any of its weapon efficiently to the civilian market. Glock was smart enough to realize that future for his firearm was in the USA, where gun laws are the most liberal and generous.

[Someday]

On 9/9/2017 at 0:54 AM, Eric said:

I wonder if Beretta would have gotten more traction here, if Glock had never made the scene? I never cared much for the Berettas personally, but it being chosen as the US Armed Forces sidearm AND not having to contend with the competition from Glock might have changed the game for them.

Funny you should say that. When I was shopping for my first gun, I narrowed it down to either a GLOCK or a Beretta. Ultimately, I stumbled upon GLOCKTALK and the rest was history. Of course, if GLOCK never existed, GT wouldn't have existed, and I would have a Beretta now! Then Hickock45 would have never joined GT, I never would have seen his videos, which means I would have never found out about the S&W 686 and 617 and I wouldn't have those either. This whole chain of events is thanks to good old Gaston Glock - followed by the Big Head himself. So, basically, I have you three (GLOCK, you, and H45) to blame for my guns.

[Eric]

Just now, Someday said:

Funny you should say that. When I was shopping for my first gun, I narrowed it down to either a GLOCK or a Beretta. Ultimately, I stumbled upon GLOCKTALK and the rest was history. Of course, if GLOCK never existed, GT wouldn't have existed, and I would have a Beretta now! Then Hickock45 would have never joined GT, I never would have seen his videos, which means I would have never found out about the S&W 686 and 617 and I wouldn't have those either. This whole chain of events is thanks to good old Gaston Glock - followed by the Big Head himself. So, basically, I have you three (GLOCK, you, and H45) to blame for my guns.

Nah, the site would have just ended up being Beretta Talk, or Hi-Point Talk, or something.

[Kilo Oscar]

We would likely be 10-15 years behind where we are right now.  Gaston Glock really started the modern pistol revolution, and I believe it would have taken many more years before any other manufacturer would have grabbed it and ran with it like he did.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Kilo Oscar

[minervadoe]

 

1 hour ago, Kilo Oscar said:

We would likely be 10-15 years behind where we are right now.  Gaston Glock really started the modern pistol revolution, and I believe it would have taken many more years before any other manufacturer would have grabbed it and ran with it like he did.

+1

I had a polymer VP70Z back in the day (designed 1970; produced 1970 - 1989).

If it had a better trigger, it could have filled a larger niche which I assume the Glock 17 (designed 1979-1982) filled.  

Without Glock, the popularity of polymer pistols may have been slowed, but at some point, it is likely that some manufacturer would have exploited the opportunity with another popular design.  

[Smith10]

Have to agree on the Beretta thing, they had a good bit of the LE market at one time for sure.

 

Makes ya wonder.

[Jason D]

On 9/10/2017 at 7:06 PM, JJHNSN said:

Ultimately the "what if" game is kind of pointless, we must admire Glock's innovation, truly one of the great ones in firearms history. HK has a long history of failing to deliver on any of its weapon efficiently to the civilian market. Glock was smart enough to realize that future for his firearm was in the USA, where gun laws are the most liberal and generous.

That's the thing. Glock innovated nothing. The Glock was and still is, a mishmash of existing ideas with some going back to John Browning. The poly gun would have come, but it would have been later. Someone would have built on the VP70 to make it better. Perhaps even HK themselves.  What Glock did though, was build a cheap reliable gun, and marketed the **** out of them. The whole thing about them being metal detector proof only added to their rise in popularity. 

 

Revolvers may have stayed in service longer in some places, but they were being supplanted by guns like the S&W 59/69 series. 

[Smith10]

Triggers, they would be different for sure. Glock set up the standard. It has taken years but the rest of the makers have followed suit. Outside of them doing so we had TDA and LONG DAO triggers for the most part.

[DJ Niner]

On 9/12/2017 at 3:19 PM, Smith10 said:

Triggers, they would be different for sure. Glock set up the standard. It has taken years but the rest of the makers have followed suit. Outside of them doing so we had TDA and LONG DAO triggers for the most part.

I think that's the direction the market and cops would have gone; improved shorter-action triggers in DAO designs.  Even in the current timeline, if something like the SIG pistols with the DAK triggers would have appeared a couple of years before Glock took root in the market, it might have taken much longer for them to become dominant (if ever).  One of the reasons Glock took-off so fast is that they were MUCH easier to shoot well than a traditional DA/SA or DAO design from the 80s or earlier.  I think the smaller (reduced scale) 1911A1 designs would have been accelerated too, hand-in-hand with 9mm versions.  

 

Basically, the other older designs would have continued to mature, and one or more (like the SIG DAKs) probably would have taken Glock's place as the dominant LE (and possibly military) pistol.

[Eric]

On 9/11/2017 at 9:37 PM, Jason D said:

That's the thing. Glock innovated nothing. The Glock was and still is, a mishmash of existing ideas with some going back to John Browning. The poly gun would have come, but it would have been later. Someone would have built on the VP70 to make it better. Perhaps even HK themselves.  What Glock did though, was build a cheap reliable gun, and marketed the **** out of them. The whole thing about them being metal detector proof only added to their rise in popularity. 

 

Revolvers may have stayed in service longer in some places, but they were being supplanted by guns like the S&W 59/69 series. 

I thin that every modern firearm has at least one design feature that goes back to John Browning.

[ASH]

Sig

[Exit Plan]

On 9/10/2017 at 7:06 PM, JJHNSN said:

Ultimately the "what if" game is kind of pointless, we must admire Glock's innovation, truly one of the great ones in firearms history. HK has a long history of failing to deliver on any of its weapon efficiently to the civilian market. Glock was smart enough to realize that future for his firearm was in the USA, where gun laws are the most liberal and generous.

You would have to join jeep forums and piss everybody off there

[jmohme]

On 9/9/2017 at 2:54 AM, Eric said:

I wonder if Beretta would have gotten more traction here, if Glock had never made the scene? I never cared much for the Berettas personally, but it being chosen as the US Armed Forces sidearm AND not having to contend with the competition from Glock might have changed the game for them.

That was my first thought

[minervadoe]

My first polymer pistol was acquired back in 1984 .  The Heckler and Koch VP 70Z was my first 9mm.  For $200, I got a new gun and four eighteen round magazines.  I do recall that the gun never jammed on me.

Maybe HK would have made a decent trigger for the VP 70Z.  That was the only firearm that I ever divested myself of, and it was because I did not like the feel of the trigger.  I remember throwing a golf ball out at the twenty five yard range and plinking away at it.  The accuracy was not half bad, but I never could seem to even nick the ball. 

Quote

The VP70 is a 9×19mm, 18-round, double action only, semi-automatic/three-round burst capable polymer frame pistol manufactured by German arms firm Heckler & Koch GmbH. VP stands for Volkspistole^[1][2][3] (literally "People's Pistol"), and the designation 70 was for the first year of production: 1970.

Quote

It was the first polymer-framed pistol and predates the Glock 17 by 12 years. The weapon weighed 820 g (28.9 oz) unloaded, lighter than most other metal framed pistols of the time. Although the VP70 was the first polymer-framed handgun, the Remington Nylon 66 rifle introduced in 1959 was the first polymer-framed firearm in production.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_VP70

 

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/173749-very-first-polymer-frame-pistol-shoots.html

Edited January 20, 2018 by minervadoe

[G19 DB]

All my guns would have manual safeties. 

[rick458]

I think the 59 series Smiths would have been bigger two mile trigger and all, they were called the WONDERNINES.