And this is why you don't buy cheap tools made in China

[crockett]

13 hours ago, Glocks4Freedom said:

It's about the price, Crockett.

 

I know. A German tool made with DIN certifications costs, lets say EUR 250.00. Without the certification it would be EUR 249.50. This small increase in price doesn't change the demand, not in the US let alone in Germany. But it increases quality, portability, ergonomics and much more. Factors that every consumer can see and feel.

Edited January 18, 2019 by crockett

[crockett]

14 minutes ago, janice6 said:

I read what you posted, I agreed about the tool, my experience with the blades over time is what I posted.  

 

Talking about the blades (and all other attachments), the new system you mentioned, is not an open system. It was developed, tested and patented by FEIN and BOSCH. HF and no other brand will be allowed to adapt it, because they didn't make the investment in the development of a far superior and faster system.

That being said, every time I read or see HF, and **** goes out the window. 

 

 

[Jammersix]

1 hour ago, crockett said:

Maybe I haven't been clear enough in the past. You don't know **** about tools. **** off troll.

Sounds like someone doesn't know how to "ignore" someone else.

I was a general contractor. I made my living buying and using equipment of all kinds, shapes, purposes, sources and types, from hammers to D-8s. The equipment that was the most complicated, by a mile, was life support gear for the divers. The easiest equipment to deal with was hand tools, because you can do those jobs with a sharp stick and a large rock.

You, on the other hand, bought a 2019 Chevy, and you have complaints about it. That tells me everything I need to know about the "expertise" in your opinions. Some people will complain about anything, even if you hang them with a new rope.

Try to have a nice day, good to talk to you again!

[Jammersix]

I love that when it happens...

General contractors don't get to brag about being general contractors very often. It's just not a job that takes heroics.

[crockett]

12 minutes ago, Jammersix said:

Sounds like someone doesn't know how to "ignore" someone else.

I was a general contractor. I made my living buying and using equipment of all kinds, shapes, purposes, sources and types, from hammers to D-8s. The equipment that was the most complicated, by a mile, was life support gear for the divers. The easiest equipment to deal with was hand tools, because you can do those jobs with a sharp stick and a large rock.

You, on the other hand, bought a 2019 Chevy, and you have complaints about it. That tells me everything I need to know about the "expertise" in your opinions. Some people will complain about anything, even if you hang them with a new rope.

Try to have a nice day, good to talk to you again!

 

False. I used to own a 2011 GMC Sierra 2500 HD Denali Duramax, which I loved and that had zero issues in 4 years. Then I owned a 2017 GMC Sierra 2500 HD Denali Duramax with major issues which GM couldn't get fixed (much like the 2016 Vette I owned).

What I recently bought and now own is a 2018 RAM that has no issues at all. And I love that truck.

How do you expect that anybody takes your **** serious, if you can't even keep track of your nonsense claims?

There was a time when I was mad about your troll posts. The longer I look into those, the sadder I feel. It just became very clear that you simply can't quit your impulsive behavior.

Edited January 18, 2019 by crockett

[Jammersix]

Congratulations on getting your anger issues worked out! Holding one's temper is one of the hallmarks of manhood!

[crockett]

1 hour ago, Cougar_ml said:

I think the point before about the Harbor Freight tool was just the cutting attachments fit with minor modification, and if it's a job where you know that it will be destroyed, are a lot cheaper to use than the higher quality ones that are made/distributed by the maker of the tool.

I'd agree with that statement for some jobs, but for a lot of them buying the more expensive cutting bit will outlast the cheap one by a large factor, usually more than enough to pay for the tool, or if not, then usually more than enough to make up for the time lost.

 

Crockett, I appreciate good tools for when the job needs them.  I'm not rich enough to buy some of the fancy imported tools like the one you started this thread with unless I really and truly need it and nothing else will work, but I do have plenty of tools that I went ahead and bought the best quality that I could afford and justify, and have been very happy with them.  The joy and ease associated with a good quality (or top quality) tool is so much greater.

 

 

Side note, my grandfather grew up during the great depression.  He bought the cheapest tools that would do the job, saved bent nails to straighten later, made garden pots out of margarine tubs and yogurt containers, and so on.

My father grew up using those tools.  As soon as he started buying tools of his own, he bought the best he could afford, and took care of them.  The garage is full of gardening tools, and the shop is full of mechanical tools and other stuff that was all purchased before I was born, and still works just as well today as it did when new.  I imagine that a lot of those tools will still be in working shape for my son when he is old enough to be using them, and even his son one day.  Heck, there are tools around here over 100 years old that would still work just fine if they weren't ignored in favor of modern power tools.

 

I wish they would make those kind of tools again, right here in the US, by small family run businesses with an eye for detail and workmanship.

There are a bunch of those small companies in the reloading sector, and I have spent a lot of money on their tools.

 

This priming tool for instance, is totally unmatched. And all the Cheesiness counterparts are not even close to this level of quality. They simply don't compare.

http://www.xxicsi.com/super-precision-click-head-br-priming-tool.html

 

 

 

[Jammersix]

Quality isn't a function of country of origin, it's a function of expertise of supervision. That's why Apple, Grizzly and JET get such good results, and Harbor Freight gets such poor results.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Jammersix

[janice6]

1 hour ago, crockett said:

 

Talking about the blades (and all other attachments), the new system you mentioned, is not an open system. It was developed, tested and patented by FEIN and BOSCH. HF and no other brand will be allowed to adapt it, because they didn't make the investment in the development of a far superior and faster system.

That being said, every time I read or see HF, and **** goes out the window. 

 

 

I'm well aware of that uniqueness of the tool.

That's why I said that a couple of minor  actual cuts into the perforation pattern In the other brand blades, allow those blades to be used on MY Fein tool.  I may not have given you enough information in my original post. 

When someone tells me that the "cutter" (not the tool) doesn't do the job, I find it's because of the choice of the particular cutter (blade, TPI, tooth length, etc.)  Even cheap blades will do the job in most cases.  However the beauty of this tool means that in some cases the blade is expendable and nothing else will work as easily.  Then, it is better to have more blades than fewer for the job.

I have cut a number of Brass toilet bolts with great success with off brand blades.  I find it's like hacksaw blades.  Poor blades will do the job occasionally, and a dozen or two cheap blades at the price of one superior quality blade, must be a consideration, if the probability of breaking or chipping the blade cutting into the unknown may occur. 

Frankly, I find that when people say the blade won't cut properly, it more often the choice of blade tooth style, TPI, length of teeth.  It's a poor blade choice by the operator rather than the blade itself.  Most cheap blades with do the job if chosen correctly.  

So the life of the blade is a trade off for the cost, and many times the necessary abuse of the blade.  I found that a large quantity of various type of blades for this particular tool is invaluable.

I have gone through 4 different brands of multi-tools before I bought the Fein, so that is why I agreed with you on the capability of the tool itself.

[crockett]

13 minutes ago, janice6 said:

I'm well aware of that uniqueness of the tool.

That's why I said that a couple of minor  actual cuts into the perforation pattern In the other brand blades, allow those blades to be used on MY Fein tool.  I may not have given you enough information in my original post. 

When someone tells me that the "cutter" (not the tool) doesn't do the job, I find it's because of the choice of the particular cutter (blade, TPI, tooth length, etc.)  Even cheap blades will do the job in most cases.  However the beauty of this tool means that in some cases the blade is expendable and nothing else will work as easily.  Then, it is better to have more blades than fewer for the job.

I have cut a number of Brass toilet bolts with great success with off brand blades.  I find it's like hacksaw blades.  Poor blades will do the job occasionally, and a dozen or two cheap blades at the price of one superior quality blade, must be a consideration, if the probability of breaking or chipping the blade cutting into the unknown may occur. 

Frankly, I find that when people say the blade won't cut properly, it more often the choice of blade tooth style, TPI, length of teeth.  It's a poor blade choice by the operator rather than the blade itself.  Most cheap blades with do the job if chosen correctly.  

So the life of the blade is a trade off for the cost, and many times the necessary abuse of the blade.  I found that a large quantity of various type of blades for this particular tool is invaluable.

I have gone through 4 different brands of multi-tools before I bought the Fein, so that is why I agreed with you on the capability of the tool itself.

 

I simply read your first post differently, thanks for the clarification.

With "I have one also" I really though you were referring to a multi tool in general, and not a Fein.

Have you thought about this blade sharpener?

 

[janice6]

57 minutes ago, crockett said:

 

I simply read your first post differently, thanks for the clarification.

With "I have one also" I really though you were referring to a multi tool in general, and not a Fein.

Have you thought about this blade sharpener?

 

Actually no.  I had never seen it before.  Looks interesting.  I believe in sharp tools.  I frequently sharpen my drill bits, along with my wood finishing tools, etc.  I can see where that would be a real advantage.  I'll have to look it up.  Thanks.

 

I checked it.  I'll probably get one to try out.

[AK_Stick]

I buy the appropriate level of tool for the job and use. 

 

A $400 Fein oscillating cutter won’t do me any good when I’m unlikely to use it 10 times in my lifetime. 

 

Where as my eddycurrent and ultrasound rigs are multi thousand dollars because they see frequent use. 

[fiveoboy01]

4 hours ago, crockett said:

 

Maybe I haven't been clear enough in the past. You don't know **** about tools. **** off troll.

 

But my content is trash.

ROFL.  Can't make this **** up. 

[AK_Stick]

6 minutes ago, fiveoboy01 said:

 

But my content is trash.

ROFL.  Can't make this **** up. 

 

Because you don’t worship at the alter of German manufacturing. 

[PNWguy]

5 hours ago, crockett said:

 

The difference is not 5%. I had been around that pond - as mentioned above - many times, on the professional level, and the personal level, in different countries as well. The difference between your average HF tool and the high end route is night and day. Unless you lower your level of expectation by a lot.

This is beginning to resemble a Hi-Point thread... 

[SC Tiger]

13 hours ago, crockett said:

Germany is known for the highest quality in many sectors and industries.

The DIN standard is the foundation for Germany's economy, literally.

 

German Institute for Standardization (DIN)

Reduce risk and increase market share through compliance with critical German standards
DIN, Deutsches Institut für Normung e.V. (German Institute for Standardization) develops norms and standards for rationalization, quality assurance, environmental protection, safety and communication in industry, technology, science, and government, as well as the public domain. DIN standards provide companies a basis for quality, safety and minimum functionality expectations and enable you to:

• Minimize risk
• Improve marketability
• Promote interoperability

https://ihsmarkit.com/products/din-standards.html

 

The per-item / product costs are on the cent level, make no difference for the consumer. But in the big picture and quality-wise, it makes all the difference.

 

We actually (at my work) bought a bunch of German air tools and they were absolute garbage.  Wound up going a different way.  

Now I realize there is no magic wand that makes things made in Germany automatically good, but that was one experience.

I agree with AK below - get the good stuff if you're gonna use it a lot.  If it's a one-time thing, buy appropriately.  

That said - there are areas where expensive tools may make sense even for one-time jobs.  If I were rebuilding a high-end race engine, I'd go for the high-end torque wrench even if I never plan to do it again.  And I'd get it calibrated on a routine interval if I did plan to use it continuously.

9 hours ago, AK_Stick said:

I buy the appropriate level of tool for the job and use. 

 

A $400 Fein oscillating cutter won’t do me any good when I’m unlikely to use it 10 times in my lifetime. 

 

Where as my eddycurrent and ultrasound rigs are multi thousand dollars because they see frequent use. 

That's my experience as well.  If I'm gonna have to spend that much on the tool, I'll just call an expert to do it for not much more.

I don't use HF power tools (prefer other brands) but I have used some of their stuff without issues.  You have to use your squash and think about what you are doing, how it could go wrong, and which tools will best suit the application.  

Then you have to consider if it's worth it to buy those tools, or just outsource the entire damn thing.

Edited January 18, 2019 by SC Tiger

[SC Tiger]

9 hours ago, AK_Stick said:

 

Because you don’t worship at the alter of German manufacturing. 

[crockett]

7 hours ago, PNWguy said:

This is beginning to resemble a Hi-Point thread... 

Maybe I just wanted to see how many trolls can be trapped in a thread that isn't politically inclined. It's ranking high.

While I hate Hi-Points with a passion, doh, they are at least made in the US. 

[RenoF250]

11 hours ago, AK_Stick said:

I buy the appropriate level of tool for the job and use. 

 

A $400 Fein oscillating cutter won’t do me any good when I’m unlikely to use it 10 times in my lifetime. 

 

Where as my eddycurrent and ultrasound rigs are multi thousand dollars because they see frequent use. 

 

Exactly.  I have the HF version of that saw and it works fine.  The only problem it has is the blade will get loose sometimes.  I used it quite a bit while fixing up my old house.  Most jobs for a saw like that don't last more than 5 min.  Grout would be an exception.  If I end up with a grout job and burn the saw up I may buy something better.

You just wrong about the breaker bars.  AvE has been destructively testing them and brand/country of origin has not been a clear indicator of strength, mostly because the import tools have been very good.

You are also wrong about the reason Milwaukee, PC, DeWalt etc. went overseas.  They were bought by corporate pricks to profit from their name while they build cheaper tools.  When PC was one of the few American made companies I bought them, now they are part of B&D and just another import.  That said the import cordless tools have been very good.  I use the **** out of mine and have not had any fail aside from battery aging.  I had Ryobi then Milwaukee, and now Bosch.  Bosch is currently my preferred brand for electric hand tools, they are often made is places like the Czech Republic.

To my point on the corporate profit pricks, look at Band-Aide - made in China ****, most expensive.  Walgreens brand, made in USA, much cheaper.  They were not forced to China they just want to whore out their name for profit.  We could have bought USA Milwaukee until the cows come home, that would have just made them a bigger target for corporate pricks to buy.  Once they did they were going to whore it out.

 

[crockett]

2 hours ago, SC Tiger said:

 

Is that why proud Tesla's stock lost over 9% today, based on them cutting 7% of its workforce?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/tesla-to-cut-its-workforce-by-around-7-percent.html

 

This is what is called true innovation. Just got out. The US is a decade behind. Try again.

 

 

[SC Tiger]

7 minutes ago, crockett said:

 

Is that why proud Tesla's stock lost over 9% today, based on them cutting 7% of its workforce?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/18/tesla-to-cut-its-workforce-by-around-7-percent.html

 

This is what is called true innovation. Just got out. The US is a decade behind. Try again.

 

 

No - that's what happens when Porsche produces a ~~ million-dollar supercar with a design fault that even lawn equipment manufacturers check for (fuel overspill getting onto a hot surface).

Tesla is such a polarizing company that they are hard to figure.  Elon acting like a nutcase isn't helping.

 

Wonder how that Merc compares to the McLaren Senna?

[crockett]

Since I'm bored... all Teslas...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by crockett

[RenoF250]

2 hours ago, crockett said:

Maybe I just wanted to see how many trolls can be trapped in a thread that isn't politically inclined. It's ranking high.

While I hate Hi-Points with a passion, doh, they are at least made in the US. 

So people that disagree are trolls?  I only see one that could be considered trolling.  Everyone else is just discussing.

[crockett]

24 minutes ago, SC Tiger said:

No - that's what happens when Porsche produces a ~~ million-dollar supercar with a design fault that even lawn equipment manufacturers check for (fuel overspill getting onto a hot surface).

Tesla is such a polarizing company that they are hard to figure.  Elon acting like a nutcase isn't helping.

 

Wonder how that Merc compares to the McLaren Senna?

It won't compete at all. The McLaren Senna is yet another lame bi-turbo V8 with 4 liters.

The AMG will be much lighter (100 to 200 kgs), has over 1050 HP, which is 250 more, and half of the power is stemming from electric engines which do have much higher torque numbers. The AMG is as close to an F1 car, as we have seen yet. The aero of the AMG is on an entirely different level. It will murder the Senna on any road course track.

Also, the Senna is largely based on the McLaren 720S. While the 720 is a capable car, its just a clone.

Edited January 18, 2019 by crockett

[crockett]

6 minutes ago, RenoF250 said:

So people that disagree are trolls?

You need to pull up sarcasm. Also, where did I say that?

So far I count fiveoboy and Jammersix. Zero substance to the topic, or utter bullshit.

SC Tiger posting a burned car and AK_Stick making a useless comment regarding worshiping German manufacturing is also trolling, while smoothly hiding it with at least some related content. Those go hand in hand with past postings, same on GT.