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And this is why you don't buy cheap tools made in China


crockett
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Bought recently a newer house. Some grouts cracked due to slab settling, which are in need for professorial repair. Getting the old grout out clean and without damaging the tiles needs a proper and quality oscillating MultiTool. One that has no play, is really powerful, and doesn't vibrate your hands off leaving behind a bad job.

A tool that last longer than a few jobs or a couple years. Probably a lifetime. A commercial / construction grade tool. Made by FEIN.

Ordered at Zoro 3 days ago, delivered today, couldn't be happier.

 

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14 minutes ago, crockett said:

Bought recently a newer house. Some grouts cracked due to slab settling, which are in need for professorial repair. Getting the old grout out clean and without damaging the tiles needs a proper and quality oscillating MultiTool. One that has no play, is really powerful, and doesn't vibrate your hands off leaving behind a bad job.

A tool that last longer than a few jobs or a couple years. Probably a lifetime. A commercial / construction grade tool. Made by FEIN.

Ordered at Zoro 3 days ago, delivered today, couldn't be happier.

 

Img-1367.jpg

 

Img-1368.jpg

 

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I have one also, it's the old version.  With small cuts, all the multitool blades and accessories from HF work on mine.  

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9 minutes ago, crockett said:

You mean from Harbor Freight?

Yes.  They last as long. and I can sacrifice them when I have to, without the pain.  I have been using them with this tool for over 5 years now.  Even the Diamond cutters are excellent.  My son just finished what you are doing, replacing the grout on entry way tile and it worked great.  My old one isn't the quick blade change yours is.  I bought an aluminum case from HF with foam in it for storage and travel.  Holds all the blade tool and accessories.

Edited by janice6
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27 minutes ago, janice6 said:

Yes.  They last as long. and I can sacrifice them when I have to, without the pain.  I have been using them with this tool for over 5 years now.  Even the Diamond cutters are excellent.  My son just finished what you are doing, replacing the grout on entry way tile and it worked great.  My old one isn't the quick blade change yours is.  I bought an aluminum case from HF with foam in it for storage and travel.  Holds all the blade tool and accessories.

 

With all due respect, HF is the total opposite of what I was trying to bring across. The vast majority of tools sold at Harbor Freight are made in China, and are low consumer grade with a very low quality (especially compared to commercial / construction grade tools). And HF (actually people buying at HF) is the reason why so many smaller US based middle class quality tool maker had to close their doors, and why companies like Milwaukee had been forced to outsource production to China.

Today it is impossible to buy an US made cordless drill. In exchange we are now dependent on China, a country that steals our designs, grew their economy on the loss of our middle class, and uses the gains to build military bases in the red sea. They own a huge part of our national debt as well.

The Harbor Freight multi tools costs between $18.99 and $37.99. Even when made in China, it is simply impossible to develop, test and manufacture a tool at that price level, that delivers remotely quality, powerful motors, or ergonomic and tight designs. Considering the profit margin for the HF corporation and the local dealer, as well as import, advertisement, etc. costs, that $18.99 multi tool was made for less than 5 bucks.

That FEIN tool costs well over $400. For a good reason. It easily cuts work times in half, without tiring your hands and arms with excessive vibrations, and it leaves behind  a 100% quality job, for decades to come.

Just a quick search brought this up. A broken case. Unthinkable on a FEIN tool. Unless you run it over with a tank.

 

TTIMPORTER_1538207073962_L1800.jpg

 

Just a few HF multi tool reviews... it really tells the story:


Took longer to drive it home from the store than it worked
Bought this product because I figures, "what the heck, they're all made in the same place anyway." The second time I used it, only 5 weeks after purchase, one of the small pegs that holds the blade in place broke off allowing the blade to wobble. Took it back for a refund. Which I was promptly and courteously given.

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Dave

December 4, 2018

 

It broke that same day

VERIFIED BUYER

Luis

November 24, 2018

 


Died after 2 uses
Used it 2 times, it then it died. Just used it for simply light cutting. Was hoping it was going to last for a few years.. but that's not the case.

Jeff

November 16, 2018

 


Did not hold up
I bought this to replace my Dremel MultiMax which died after about 10 years. I needed this tool right away as I was in the middle of my bathroom remodel and needed it to trim door casings and remove thinset. It has a powerful motor and worked great...until it died. The yoke inside the head which makes it oscillate broke and it would no longer oscillate. I had it 7 months and didn’t use it very much, less than 10-12 times. Fortunately, it broke just as I was removing the last small section of thinset ooze-out between the new tile. I finished the job manually with a 5-in-1. I just ordered a new MultiMax. Pros: powerful motor, gets the job done, metal head, lots of blade choices at HF Cons: extremely noisy, must wear ear plugs or muffs, did not hold up, only 3 month warranty, a little heavy

JustMe

October 29, 2018

 

Worked for 10 minutes then nothing
Bought for upcoming home improvement work. Cut about 8 inches of soft cedar and wouldn't turn back on. Opened tool up to check brush alignment, loose wires. No evident failure so I'm looking into a more durable product.

John

August 18, 2018

 

Very handy tool.... when it works
Thought I'd take a chance on Chicago Electric. I guess I should have known better. I'm a residential contractor and used it on 3 maybe 4 jobs for no more than 15 minutes each and today it will just stop and I have to hit it on something to get it to run again, but only at higher speeds now. The lower ones won't turn in at all now. The Harbor Freight blades weren't impressive either.

Roy

July 18, 2018

 

I will be returning this product for a replacement item.
Sanding a wooden chair seat. After 15 minutes of use the padded head of the sander separated from the metal base.

David

June 21, 2018

 

worked for 4 seconds
I turned it on and it worked for a few seconds. Then I turned it off and then back on again and it didn't come back on. Dead.

DougA

June 3, 2018

 

Broken
The head will not hold the cutters on anymore

Jay

April 25, 2018

 

no
Not a very good tool better off spending the money buying a name brand..

felix

April 23, 2018

 

I would not buy this again.
Obviously for a cheaper tool it shows it. The vibration is not smooth at all, makes it more difficult to use than a brand name one.Burned up after just a few uses. Purchased 12/28/17. Going to try to return it today, 4/22/18.

Jeff

April 22, 2018

 

Died after handful of light uses
Used it a handful of times. Light uses around the house. Was great while it worked. Should last longer than it did.

Meaty

April 18, 2018

 

I couldn't use it the shank wouldn't tighten to hold the too
Didn't work

Carpenter

March 13, 2018

 

I would not but this tool again
It froze during the first use . I tried to get one one the blades off and stripped the screw so it's useless to me now .

Mike

March 13, 2018

 

DO NOT BUY - JUNK
BOUGHT THE SAW AND THE "METAL CUTTING BLADE" WOULD NOT EVEN CUT THRU 1/4" BRASS TOILET BOLTS. IT JUST DOES NOT DO THE JOB

ML

March 10, 2018

Edited by crockett
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1 hour ago, crockett said:

Bought recently a newer house. Some grouts cracked due to slab settling, which are in need for professorial repair. Getting the old grout out clean and without damaging the tiles needs a proper and quality oscillating MultiTool. One that has no play, is really powerful, and doesn't vibrate your hands off leaving behind a bad job.

A tool that last longer than a few jobs or a couple years. Probably a lifetime. A commercial / construction grade tool. Made by FEIN.

Ordered at Zoro 3 days ago, delivered today, couldn't be happier.

 

Img-1367.jpg

 

Img-1368.jpg

 

Img-1369.jpg

It makes a very clean cut. Nice work.

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2 minutes ago, Glocks4Freedom said:

The best tool for the money. Bar none. Made in Taiwan. As good as a Snap-on.

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-drive-25-in-professional-breaker-bar-62729.html

image.png.553207ed06aa6707f6d3df1bac0dd373.png

 

 

While Taiwan delivers much better quality in the tool sector, compared to China, they are still not even remotely close to those brands being used in aviation or by luxury car makers.

I bet $100 that this Hazet breaker bar won't shear off as quickly (at the same length), or show any sign of corrosion over the years.

https://www.jensputzier.com/hazet/hand-tools/range-of-sockets/range-of-12-sockets/single-ratchets-12/hazet-914-18-breaker-bar-94.html

 

046027ba-18.jpg

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10 minutes ago, crockett said:

 

While Taiwan delivers much better quality in the tool sector, compared to China, they are still not even remotely close to those brands being used in aviation or by luxury car makers.

I bet $100 that this Hazet breaker bar won't shear off as quickly (at the same length), or show any sign of corrosion over the years.

https://www.jensputzier.com/hazet/hand-tools/range-of-sockets/range-of-12-sockets/single-ratchets-12/hazet-914-18-breaker-bar-94.html

 

046027ba-18.jpg

 

Some people in the tool forum might disagree - people who actually make a living turning wrenches. Making good steel is no longer a secret and Taiwan is an industrial powerhouse (Chances are the Memory on the device you're using to post here was made in Taiwan).

While I am a big fan of Hazet/Stahlwille et al, I cannot longer accept they are "superior" to some Taiwanese tools just on the merit of being German/American or [Insert your favourite culture] - they're not.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Glocks4Freedom said:

Some people in the tool forum might disagree. Making good steel is no longer a secret and Taiwan is an industrial powerhouse (Chances are the Memory on the device you're using to post here was made in Taiwan).

While I am a big fan of Hazet/Stahlwille et al, I cannot longer accept they are "superior" to some Taiwanese tools just on the merit of being German/American or [Insert your favourite culture] - they're not.

 

 

 

Hazet is made 100% in Germany. I saw their manufacturing plant, when we stocked our helicopter servicing location. I also know a thing or two about Tawain, as a matter of facts, my company operates a production facility in Taichung City, for parts that we can't make in the US or EU yet, due to long standing sourcing contracts in Taiwan. Taiwan does not make tools on the same level as German. Not even close.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Citra47 said:

It makes a very clean cut. Nice work.

Thank you, Sir.

 

I hope my underlying message is clear though. I'm not posting this to brag. I could care less about my work, I could have also paid somebody. Probably some idiot showing up with low budget tools. One reason why I do basically every job on my house and my stuff myself.

The issue I have faced throughout my first jobs and later on in my carrier within my own business, caused me as well as my company losses done by and with mediocre tools.

I still recall that damaged titanium rotor hub on a S-76, when a lower budget torque wrench was out of spec, and the fastener cracked it. That hub was done, the company had to order a new one, $150,000 out the window.

Later on in my own company, I saw plenty of products being ruined by middle of the road tools. The one time investment in  high quality tools was always much lower in the end, than the issues being caused by your average tools.

Or that middle of the line CNC machine made in Taiwan, screwing up hundreds of parts.

The brand name damage done when consumers report quality issues with your products, done by bad tools, is even higher.  You entire brand catches quickly a bad reputation, and it takes 10 times as along to make up for it.

I have a passion for bad and even middle of the road tools. When you work with lacking tools, your results are almost always lacking as well.

I can understand that not everybody can afford high quality tools and that's fine. But often people go the cheap route even when they can afford proper products. By buying quality items made in the US, or at least made in the Western world, you do support our workers, our economy, our tax revenue.

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17 minutes ago, Jammersix said:

I prefer goods from overseas.

For grout removal, there are superior systems to Fein, who have a reputation for over engineering and over charging.

 

Maybe I haven't been clear enough in the past. You don't know **** about tools. **** off troll.

Edited by crockett
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10 minutes ago, Glocks4Freedom said:

Overcharging is the part that matters. The regulations on businesses are decimating the Western industry... 

 

Regulations sure do come with a price tag, but the DIN standard (as well as CE etc) are well worth it IMO. Tools not being within spec, let alone being certified, are just one more reason why the manufacturing of items are lacking, causing ongoing quality issues, loss in brand reputation, etc.

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3 minutes ago, crockett said:

Thank you, Sir.

 

I hope my underlying message is clear though. I'm not posting this to brag. I could care less about my work, I could have also paid somebody. Probably some idiot showing up with low budget tools. One reason why I do basically every job on my house and my stuff myself.

The issue I have faced throughout my first jobs and later on in my carrier within my own business, caused me as well as my company losses done by and with mediocre tools.

I still recall that damaged titanium rotor hub on a S-76, when a lower budget torque wrench was out of spec, and the fastener cracked it. That hub was done, the company had to order a new one, $150,000 out the window.

Later on in my own company, I saw plenty of products being ruined by middle of the road tools. The one time investment in  high quality tools was always much lower in the end, than the issues being caused by your average tools.

Or that middle of the line CNC machine made in Taiwan, screwing up hundreds of parts.

The brand name damage done when consumers report quality issues with your products, done by bad tools, is even higher.  You entire brand catches quickly a bad reputation, and it takes 10 times as along to make up for it.

I have a passion for bad and even middle of the road tools. When you work with lacking tools, your results are almost always lacking as well.

I can understand that not everybody can afford high quality tools and that's fine. But often people go the cheap route even when they can afford proper products. By buying quality items made in the US, or at least made in the Western world, you do support our workers, our economy, our tax revenue.

Agree 100%!  Dad beat that into my head when I was young growing up on the farm. We didn't have a lot of money but dad always bought the very best tools & equipment he could afford. You end up with a lot less breakage then with crap tools.

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I think the point before about the Harbor Freight tool was just the cutting attachments fit with minor modification, and if it's a job where you know that it will be destroyed, are a lot cheaper to use than the higher quality ones that are made/distributed by the maker of the tool.

I'd agree with that statement for some jobs, but for a lot of them buying the more expensive cutting bit will outlast the cheap one by a large factor, usually more than enough to pay for the tool, or if not, then usually more than enough to make up for the time lost.

 

Crockett, I appreciate good tools for when the job needs them.  I'm not rich enough to buy some of the fancy imported tools like the one you started this thread with unless I really and truly need it and nothing else will work, but I do have plenty of tools that I went ahead and bought the best quality that I could afford and justify, and have been very happy with them.  The joy and ease associated with a good quality (or top quality) tool is so much greater.

 

 

Side note, my grandfather grew up during the great depression.  He bought the cheapest tools that would do the job, saved bent nails to straighten later, made garden pots out of margarine tubs and yogurt containers, and so on.

My father grew up using those tools.  As soon as he started buying tools of his own, he bought the best he could afford, and took care of them.  The garage is full of gardening tools, and the shop is full of mechanical tools and other stuff that was all purchased before I was born, and still works just as well today as it did when new.  I imagine that a lot of those tools will still be in working shape for my son when he is old enough to be using them, and even his son one day.  Heck, there are tools around here over 100 years old that would still work just fine if they weren't ignored in favor of modern power tools.

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Unless using it is my primary form of income acquisition, I will never, ever pay $400 for am oscillating tool.

There is good reason to pay for the highest quality.  When the difference between 95% and 100% quality costs you enough time and money, you pay the premium.

But for most of us, "pretty good" is just fine...  "Pretty good" costs far, FAR less then the best, and only a bit more than Harbor Freight.

People shopping at Harbor Freight would never have been in the market to buy a Fein or a Snap-On unless they had no other choice.

Harbor Freight sells quality from "junk" to "perfectly good".  I prefer to buy local when I can, but I will gladly buy products from anywhere if the quality is there.  Especially if I don't actually need the high end, and I usually don't.  That usually means Kobalt or similar, but occasionally Harbor Freight.

Enjoy your tool.  I hope you get your money's worth out of it.

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20 minutes ago, crockett said:

 

Regulations sure do come with a price tag, but the DIN standard (as well as CE etc) are well worth it IMO. Tools not being within spec, let alone being certified, are just one more reason why the manufacturing of items are lacking, causing ongoing quality issues, loss in brand reputation, etc.

Standards are as good as the price attached to them.

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1 hour ago, JTMac said:

Unless using it is my primary form of income acquisition, I will never, ever pay $400 for am oscillating tool.

There is good reason to pay for the highest quality.  When the difference between 95% and 100% quality costs you enough time and money, you pay the premium.

But for most of us, "pretty good" is just fine...  "Pretty good" costs far, FAR less then the best, and only a bit more than Harbor Freight.

People shopping at Harbor Freight would never have been in the market to buy a Fein or a Snap-On unless they had no other choice.

Harbor Freight sells quality from "junk" to "perfectly good".  I prefer to buy local when I can, but I will gladly buy products from anywhere if the quality is there.  Especially if I don't actually need the high end, and I usually don't.  That usually means Kobalt or similar, but occasionally Harbor Freight.

Enjoy your tool.  I hope you get your money's worth out of it.

 

The difference is not 5%. I had been around that pond - as mentioned above - many times, on the professional level, and the personal level, in different countries as well. The difference between your average HF tool and the high end route is night and day. Unless you lower your level of expectation by a lot.

I know plenty of guys who buy at HF, but could afford everything on the market. They also shop at Wally World and eat processed food most of the time. And their health reflects that too. If somebody has no choice, that's totally fine. But most do have a choice, they just cheap out on quality products in general.

FEIN also makes a multi tool with a less powerful motor, no hard case and less tools included, for $200. That product is still in an entirely different league than your Home Depot brands going for $100. Let alone that $18 HF nonsense. Just read the reviews.

Edited by crockett
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3 minutes ago, crockett said:

The difference between your average HF tool and the high end route is night and day. Unless you lower your level of expectation by a lot.

Please note that I did not accuse Harbor Freight goods of being the 95% tool.

Edited by JTMac
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8 minutes ago, Glocks4Freedom said:

Standards are as good as the price attached to them.

Germany is known for the highest quality in many sectors and industries.

The DIN standard is the foundation for Germany's economy, literally.

 

German Institute for Standardization (DIN)

Reduce risk and increase market share through compliance with critical German standards
DIN, Deutsches Institut für Normung e.V. (German Institute for Standardization) develops norms and standards for rationalization, quality assurance, environmental protection, safety and communication in industry, technology, science, and government, as well as the public domain. DIN standards provide companies a basis for quality, safety and minimum functionality expectations and enable you to:

  • Minimize risk
  • Improve marketability
  • Promote interoperability

https://ihsmarkit.com/products/din-standards.html

 

The per-item / product costs are on the cent level, make no difference for the consumer. But in the big picture and quality-wise, it makes all the difference.

 

Edited by crockett
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1 hour ago, crockett said:

 

With all due respect, HF is the total opposite of what I was trying to bring across. The vast majority of tools sold at Harbor Freight are made in China, and are low consumer grade with a very low quality (especially compared to commercial / construction grade tools). And HF (actually people buying at HF) is the reason why so many smaller US based middle class quality tool maker had to close their doors, and why companies like Milwaukee had been forced to outsource production to China.

Today it is impossible to buy an US made cordless drill. In exchange we are now dependent on China, a country that steals our designs, grew their economy on the loss of our middle class, and uses the gains to build military bases in the red sea. They own a huge part of our national debt as well.

The Harbor Freight multi tools costs between $18.99 and $37.99. Even when made in China, it is simply impossible to develop, test and manufacture a tool at that price level, that delivers remotely quality, powerful motors, or ergonomic and tight designs. Considering the profit margin for the HF corporation and the local dealer, as well as import, advertisement, etc. costs, that $18.99 multi tool was made for less than 5 bucks.

That FEIN tool costs well over $400. For a good reason. It easily cuts work times in half, without tiring your hands and arms with excessive vibrations, and it leaves behind  a 100% quality job, for decades to come.

Just a quick search brought this up. A broken case. Unthinkable on a FEIN tool. Unless you run it over with a tank.

 

TTIMPORTER_1538207073962_L1800.jpg

 

Just a few HF multi tool reviews... it really tells the story:


Took longer to drive it home from the store than it worked
Bought this product because I figures, "what the heck, they're all made in the same place anyway." The second time I used it, only 5 weeks after purchase, one of the small pegs that holds the blade in place broke off allowing the blade to wobble. Took it back for a refund. Which I was promptly and courteously given.

Was this helpful?10 Report
Dave

December 4, 2018

 

It broke that same day

VERIFIED BUYER

Luis

November 24, 2018

 


Died after 2 uses
Used it 2 times, it then it died. Just used it for simply light cutting. Was hoping it was going to last for a few years.. but that's not the case.

Jeff

November 16, 2018

 


Did not hold up
I bought this to replace my Dremel MultiMax which died after about 10 years. I needed this tool right away as I was in the middle of my bathroom remodel and needed it to trim door casings and remove thinset. It has a powerful motor and worked great...until it died. The yoke inside the head which makes it oscillate broke and it would no longer oscillate. I had it 7 months and didn’t use it very much, less than 10-12 times. Fortunately, it broke just as I was removing the last small section of thinset ooze-out between the new tile. I finished the job manually with a 5-in-1. I just ordered a new MultiMax. Pros: powerful motor, gets the job done, metal head, lots of blade choices at HF Cons: extremely noisy, must wear ear plugs or muffs, did not hold up, only 3 month warranty, a little heavy

JustMe

October 29, 2018

 

Worked for 10 minutes then nothing
Bought for upcoming home improvement work. Cut about 8 inches of soft cedar and wouldn't turn back on. Opened tool up to check brush alignment, loose wires. No evident failure so I'm looking into a more durable product.

John

August 18, 2018

 

Very handy tool.... when it works
Thought I'd take a chance on Chicago Electric. I guess I should have known better. I'm a residential contractor and used it on 3 maybe 4 jobs for no more than 15 minutes each and today it will just stop and I have to hit it on something to get it to run again, but only at higher speeds now. The lower ones won't turn in at all now. The Harbor Freight blades weren't impressive either.

Roy

July 18, 2018

 

I will be returning this product for a replacement item.
Sanding a wooden chair seat. After 15 minutes of use the padded head of the sander separated from the metal base.

David

June 21, 2018

 

worked for 4 seconds
I turned it on and it worked for a few seconds. Then I turned it off and then back on again and it didn't come back on. Dead.

DougA

June 3, 2018

 

Broken
The head will not hold the cutters on anymore

Jay

April 25, 2018

 

no
Not a very good tool better off spending the money buying a name brand..

felix

April 23, 2018

 

I would not buy this again.
Obviously for a cheaper tool it shows it. The vibration is not smooth at all, makes it more difficult to use than a brand name one.Burned up after just a few uses. Purchased 12/28/17. Going to try to return it today, 4/22/18.

Jeff

April 22, 2018

 

Died after handful of light uses
Used it a handful of times. Light uses around the house. Was great while it worked. Should last longer than it did.

Meaty

April 18, 2018

 

I couldn't use it the shank wouldn't tighten to hold the too
Didn't work

Carpenter

March 13, 2018

 

I would not but this tool again
It froze during the first use . I tried to get one one the blades off and stripped the screw so it's useless to me now .

Mike

March 13, 2018

 

DO NOT BUY - JUNK
BOUGHT THE SAW AND THE "METAL CUTTING BLADE" WOULD NOT EVEN CUT THRU 1/4" BRASS TOILET BOLTS. IT JUST DOES NOT DO THE JOB

ML

March 10, 2018

I read what you posted, I agreed about the tool, my experience with the blades over time is what I posted.  

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7 minutes ago, crockett said:

Germany is known for the highest quality in many sectors and industries.

The DIN standard is the foundation for Germany's economy, literally.

 

German Institute for Standardization (DIN)

Reduce risk and increase market share through compliance with critical German standards
DIN, Deutsches Institut für Normung e.V. (German Institute for Standardization) develops norms and standards for rationalization, quality assurance, environmental protection, safety and communication in industry, technology, science, and government, as well as the public domain. DIN standards provide companies a basis for quality, safety and minimum functionality expectations and enable you to:

  • Minimize risk
  • Improve marketability
  • Promote interoperability

https://ihsmarkit.com/products/din-standards.html

 

The per-item / product costs are on the cent level, make no difference for the consumer. But in the big picture and quality-wise, it makes all the difference.

 

It's about the price, Crockett.

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