Funny think I heard today

[Mrs.Cicero]

from the excavator knocking down my old house... "In 18 years of doing this, I have never SEEN a foundation like that!"

How they got that approved, and passed inspection, we will never know... 

But it's in the dumpster now, so I'll never have to deal with it again!  Oh YEAH, baby!

[crockett]

I was building a house with a major company 2 years ago and they fucked up so many jobs that I terminated the builder agreement and threatened to take them to court over market value loss and then some if I wouldn't get my deposit back, in full. Got a check rather quickly.

One of the issues was the foundation. The slap had high-points of 3 inches in several rooms. You could feel and see it while walking through the rooms. Then they forgot the plumbing in 3 rooms and cut the freshly poured slab open, all the way through to the dirt, which compromised the entire structure, while enacting the walls and forcing the gaps to spread from the weight.

The building standards, insulation, technology and codes are a total joke compared to Germany, which still keeps me from building another house. Even custom builders use folks who can't speak English properly, and had been trained on the side.

The issues with my first house had been documented through hundreds of photos and a 36 page report. So many defects, so many corners being cut. They went through 3 local managers while they worked on my house. All had been wishy washy douchebags.

So I hear ya.

 

EDIT: Sorry for high-jacking your thread, I'm bored.. 

 

The final product looks great. They had been excellent at hiding all the defects behind the drywall and all that filler. They sold the house to some unsuspecting family. I'll give it a couple more years for all those expensive Italian Group 5 tiles (entire house) to break because of the cracks in the slab. Did I mention the 1 to 3 inch gaps in WEIGHT-BEARING walls and framing? That drywall will also build cracks soon enough. Half of the wiring was dead as well.

 

 

 

 

 

Just a VERY small collection of the underlying issues...

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by crockett

[KWalrad]

Quality control and pride in workmanship takes a backseat to speed and profit in most trades now days. Houses aren't built to last 50 years, much less multiple centuries.

 

If you want anything done right, do it yourself.

It sucks, but apparently that's the business model currently and for the foreseeable future 

[steve4102]

19 hours ago, crockett said:

I was building a house with a major company 2 years ago and they ****ed up so many jobs that I terminated the builder agreement and threatened to take them to court over market value loss and then some if I wouldn't get my deposit back, in full. Got a check rather quickly.

One of the issues was the foundation. The slap had high-points of 3 inches in several rooms. You could feel and see it while walking through the rooms. Then they forgot the plumbing in 3 rooms and cut the freshly poured slab open, all the way through to the dirt, which compromised the entire structure, while enacting the walls and forcing the gaps to spread from the weight.

The building standards, insulation, technology and codes are a total joke compared to Germany, which still keeps me from building another house. Even custom builders use folks who can't speak English properly, and had been trained on the side.

The issues with my first house had been documented through hundreds of photos and a 36 page report. So many defects, so many corners being cut. They went through 3 local managers while they worked on my house. All had been wishy washy douchebags.

So I hear ya.

 

EDIT: Sorry for high-jacking your thread, I'm bored.. 

 

The finally product looks great. They had been excellent at hiding all the defects behind the drywall and all that filler. They sold the house to some unsuspecting family. I'll give it a couple more years for all those expensive Italian Group 5 tiles (entire house) to break because of the cracks in the slab. Did I mention the 1 to 3 inch gaps in WEIGHT-BEARING walls and framing? That drywall will also build cracks soon enough. Half of the wiring was dead as well.

 

 

 

 

 

Just a VERY small collection of the underlying issues...

 

 

 

 

"Why is the plumbing outside the wall"?

That depends,

Is it an exterior wall and subject to freezing if not insulated properly?

Is it an outside wall with a footing or grade bean directly underneath the wall?  

If it is just an interior curtain wall, then move the wall a few inches, or fur it out.  

Edited November 13, 2018 by steve4102

[crockett]

4 hours ago, steve4102 said:

"Why is the plumbing outside the wall"?

That depends,

Is it an exterior wall and subject to freezing if not insulated properly?

Is it an outside wall with a footing or grade bean directly underneath the wall?  

If it is just an interior curtain wall, then move the wall a few inches, or fur it out.  

You can't be serious! Those photos had been sent to the headquarters of the building company to make a case for termination. That was obviously not a question but a statement.

That is also clearly an interior wall. It doesn't freeze in my area. It is a weigh-bearing wall and can't be moved. The pluming was outside the wall because the guys who did the plumping fucked up. The issues is, that the framing was done OVER an existing and obvious issue. Then they had to remove the framing, cut open the slab again, redo the pluming, fill the slab, wait, and redo the framing. That was just one pluming issue from many.

Edited November 14, 2018 by crockett

[Mrs.Cicero]

Wow, Crockett!  I feel for ya'!

My problems were a) the original "house" was built in 1900.  I use " " because it was actually originally...

A CHICKEN COOP.  

NOT kidding.  Well, really a small barn full of chickens with chicken feed stored in the loft.

b) The three additions were added at various points after the structure was turned into a house.  The first addition was on one side.  We discovered 2" thick 20' long oak and black walnut planks UNDER the OSB  and vinyl that the kitchen had been slapped on top of.  Too bad there were nails every single inch...  But at least that was sturdy... since it was apparently originally a deck... and the next two additions (front and back) were built deck-style again in terms of "foundation" - maybe 6" of wood down in the dirt (rotted, of course, the last addition being put on in the 1980s).  Then there was the plastic sheets.  In the walls.  And the roof.  You know.  The kind of thing that doesn't let the house breathe, so all the OSB in the roof is SOLID BLACK with mold.  I just loved the idea of tiling  the land around the second addition so that it ALWAYS DRAINED INTO THE SPACE UNDER THE ROOM ITSELF.  That would be "Lake Under-my-living-room" that would then drain into the "Michigan basement" (stone walls, dirt floor) under the original part of thee house.  What's more annoying is this isn't even the end of the list, and none of it was caught during the supposed "inspection" prior to our buying it.  

It's okay now, though.  We still have the 48 acres it sits on, the 120 year old barn, the 4 year old pole barn, and the brand new house that we built behind that freaking mess.  And I got to pick the floor plan, and everything else for it, because Mr.C was too busy.  ROFL.  He earned a lot of points with me for that!

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Mrs.Cicero

[steve4102]

19 minutes ago, crockett said:

You can be serious! Those photos had been sent to the headquarters of the building company to make a case for termination. That was obviously not a question but a statement.

That is also clearly an interior wall. It doesn't freeze in my area. It is a weigh-bearing wall and can't be moved. The pluming was outside the wall because the guys who did the plumping ****ed up. The issues is, that the framing was done OVER an existing and obvious issue. Then they had to remove the framing, cut open the slab again, redo the pluming, fill the slab, wait, and redo the framing. That was just one pluming issue from many.

By looking at the photo, I wasn't sure it was an interior wall or a bottom plate up against an exterior poured exterior basement wall.

Who was the general on this project? 

It is up to the General to double and triple check the plumbing rough-in  before the slab is poured.  People f*uck up, it is up to the General to make sure their f*ck ups are squashed before it's to late.  The plumbers f*cked up, they always do, so do tinners, electricians, diggers, carpenters, homeowners and even architects. 

Moving that plumbing 2 inches to get it set inside the wall ain't ****.  Chip out the floor about a foot in diameter, plumb in an offset, stub it up into the wall and pour a patch.  Easy peasy, or just fur the wall out on the one side, even more easy peasy.

As for the uneven slab and the really, really poor pour, That's F*cked, really F*cked.  Again where was the general when the slab was being poured.  He/she should have been there.  That is the job od a General to organize and administer the subs.

 

 

[Hauptmann6]

Damn crockett, did a mister Edwin build your house? Mrs C may know who I'm talking about.

[crockett]

On 11/13/2018 at 7:06 PM, steve4102 said:

By looking at the photo, I wasn't sure it was an interior wall or a bottom plate up against an exterior poured exterior basement wall.

Who was the general on this project? 

It is up to the General to double and triple check the plumbing rough-in  before the slab is poured.  People f*uck up, it is up to the General to make sure their f*ck ups are squashed before it's to late.  The plumbers f*cked up, they always do, so do tinners, electricians, diggers, carpenters, homeowners and even architects. 

Moving that plumbing 2 inches to get it set inside the wall ain't ****.  Chip out the floor about a foot in diameter, plumb in an offset, stub it up into the wall and pour a patch.  Easy peasy, or just fur the wall out on the one side, even more easy peasy.

As for the uneven slab and the really, really poor pour, That's F*cked, really F*cked.  Again where was the general when the slab was being poured.  He/she should have been there.  That is the job od a General to organize and administer the subs.

 

 

The field manager was only there when I asked him to show up. So there's that. 

Doesn't even matter, as I wrote: I long terminated the builders agreement and got all my money back. No way in hell will I move into a mess like that and cheap fixes are a no go with me. And all workers screwing up is not normal, I have been around this block a few times. Workers only screw up when they didn't get a proper education and /or are paid by the project and not based on the time factor.

I built an entire house together with family over 20 years ago (below), there is not one thing that I haven't done including pouring a foundation. Was in another country and why I said that these fuckup's don't happen there.

 

All inner walls are concrete, outer walls are 1.5 feet thick with insulation between an inner cement wall and an outer brick wall. That house surpasses even today's US insulation ratings by a longshot. All slabs are free swimming - they will never crack. Gas AC / heating is build into the floor, most of the roof holds solar panels - so much that most of the time it feeds into the power lines and we get paid for it. Triple glass windows almost 2 inches thick. EVERYTHING inside is real oak and Mahogany wood, no drywall bullshit or plywood.

This house will literally last over 500 years, unlike the crap that is being thrown together in a hurry over here.

Edited January 11, 2019 by crockett

[steve4102]

So, you were your own General Contractor?

I'm glad you got your money back.  

Edited November 14, 2018 by steve4102

[crockett]

2 hours ago, steve4102 said:

So, you were your own General Contractor?

I'm glad you got your money back.  

 

Did you read my first post?

 

On 11/12/2018 at 9:42 PM, crockett said:

I was building a house with a major company 2 years ago

 

[steve4102]

27 minutes ago, crockett said:

 

Did you read my first post?

I was building a house with a major company 2 years ago

 

Building "With" means what?

You had them build your house and they were the General Contractor in charge of the project 100%, as in---select and higher all subs, acquire and purchase all appropriate permits, manage, administer and schedule all subs, purchase all materials, pay all sub contractors, work directly with the Architect, work directly with all  Building Inspectors, schedule progress inspections and payment with financial institutions if required, pretty much every aspect of the build except for selecting the finishing touches like paint colors, floor coverings, light fixtures, stain, etc.  If so, then this "major Company" are hacks and responsible for all of the f*ck-ups 100%

...or does "with" mean that you were responsible for some or all of the above and the "major Company" was just another "sub" that you hired as you were the general? If so, they you (the general) are responsible for some of the f*ck-ups.

BTW, what is a "Field manager" and why would You ask him to check on progress if you were not the General.

When the Building Permit was issued, who payed for it, who got it approved and who's name was on it?  This "Major Company" or yours?

[crockett]

1 hour ago, steve4102 said:

Building "With" means what?

You had them build your house and they were the General Contractor in charge of the project 100%, as in---select and higher all subs, acquire and purchase all appropriate permits, manage, administer and schedule all subs, purchase all materials, pay all sub contractors, work directly with the Architect, work directly with all  Building Inspectors, schedule progress inspections and payment with financial institutions if required, pretty much every aspect of the build except for selecting the finishing touches like paint colors, floor coverings, light fixtures, stain, etc.  If so, then this "major Company" are hacks and responsible for all of the f*ck-ups 100%

...or does "with" mean that you were responsible for some or all of the above and the "major Company" was just another "sub" that you hired as you were the general? If so, they you (the general) are responsible for some of the f*ck-ups.

BTW, what is a "Field manager" and why would You ask him to check on progress if you were not the General.

When the Building Permit was issued, who payed for it, who got it approved and who's name was on it?  This "Major Company" or yours?

If I would have had any serious say in this messy progress, do you really think I would have just watched all this unfold over the course of 5 months?! Legally I wan't even allowed to step foot on the lot without an appointment.

The builder is one of the nations largest home construction companies. They are obviously in charge of everything, up to the closing day. The (regional) field manager was the highest ranking manager I could get at.

[steve4102]

5 hours ago, crockett said:

If I would have had any serious say in this messy progress, do you really think I would have just watched all this unfold over the course of 5 months?! Legally I wan't even allowed to step foot on the lot without an appointment.

The builder is one of the nations largest home construction companies. They are obviously in charge of everything, up to the closing day. The (regional) field manager was the highest ranking manager I could get at.

Then you got screwed, good thing you got your money back.

If he is a big as you say he is, they usually have lawyers on retainer and never relinquish a dime.

Care to PM me the Co name, I might have dealt with them in the past?

[Walt Longmire]

No building codes here or inspections. There are in town, but not out in the unincorporated parts of the Borough. You should see some of the crap people cobble together. I get called to haul on some of the private job sites. I used to offer advice to people that were obviously screwing up. They always get upset, so I keep my opinions to myself now. People do stupid **** right down to killing the entire family with carbon monoxide.