Primer issues

[Collim1]

This weekend shooting two different revolvers I had multiple misfires with both guns. Most fired on the second strike, a few took a third strike. 

My load is 4.0 grains of Win231, CCI primers, and a 158g Hornaday LSWC. 

Its no tack driver load in any one revolver, but it shoots acceptably in all of mine with minimal recoil, and best of all it’s a very economical load. Especially considering I get all my brass free.

My question is what could I have done to cause these light primer strikes?  Is there anything I could be doing to cause them? And what can I do to prevent issues in the future. I’m getting low on ammo and am about to crank out another big batch of ammo. 

[crockett]

12 minutes ago, Collim1 said:

This weekend shooting two different revolvers I had multiple misfires with both guns. Most fired on the second strike, a few took a third strike. 

My load is 4.0 grains of Win231, CCI primers, and a 158g Hornaday LSWC. 

Its no tack driver load in any one revolver, but it shoots acceptably in all of mine with minimal recoil, and best of all it’s a very economical load. Especially considering I get all my brass free.

My question is what could I have done to cause these light primer strikes?  Is there anything I could be doing to cause them? And what can I do to prevent issues in the future. I’m getting low on ammo and am about to crank out another big batch of ammo. 

 

Several issues can cause your problem:

- CCI cups are known to be very hard. If your hammer springs are on the way out, CCI primers are the first to show it.

- It is also possible that you didn't seat the primers properly (low or high). Primers should generally run -0.003″ to -0.005″ below the case head.

- Excessive headspace.

- Blunted or broken firing pin (unlikely on 2 revolvers).

How does the primer face look like after a misfire? Any chance of uploading a photo from a once stroked, misfired round?

I also recall that CCI had a bad batch of primers with even harder cups. Did you use a another batch of CCI primers with those rounds, compared to prior, working loads?

Edited October 22, 2018 by crockett

[Collim1]

It’s the same case of primers I have been using for the last several batches I have worked up. I usually crank out about 400 rounds at a time.  

The primers looked like they got a solid smack, it wasn’t an obvious light strike. 

I will have to carefully inspect and measure my next batch when I seat the primers, but I have never precisely measured seating depth. Just visually inspect and feel the primer after seating before tossing it in the box. 

The revolvers are model 10’s. The hammer speed and spring strength seems normal. The strain screw is screwed in all the way and snug, and the firing pins seems are in good shape.  

I normally tap & rack or pull the trigger again immediately after a malfunction without stopping to inspect the problem so as to build good muscle memory for malfunction clearance, but next time I will carefully inspect each failure to fire and document it so I can get a better idea of what I’m dealing with. 

I buy CCI primers because that’s what available locally without paying shipping costs. Only one local shop carries any reloading supplies these days, and their selection continues to dwindle. The shop owner claims it’s not profitable anymore. 

I am willing to order a bulk order of another primers if it will prevent future issues. I’m down to about 300 CCI primers, and will have to purchase more soon anyway.

What would you recommend?

Edited October 22, 2018 by Collim1

[crockett]

14 minutes ago, Collim1 said:

It’s the same case of primers I have been using for the last several batches I have worked up. I usually crank out about 400 rounds at a time.  

The primers looked like they got a solid smack, it wasn’t an obvious light strike. 

I will have to carefully inspect and measure my next batch when I seat the primers, but I have never precisely measured seating depth. Just visually inspect and feel the primer after seating before tossing it in the box. 

The revolvers are model 10’s. The hammer speed and spring strength seems normal. The strain screw is screwed in all the way and snug, and the firing pins seems are in good shape.  

I normally tap & rack or pull the trigger again immediately after a malfunction without stopping to inspect the problem so as to build good muscle memory for malfunction clearance, but next time I will carefully inspect each failure to fire and document it so I can get a better idea of what I’m dealing with. 

I buy CCI primers because that’s what available locally without paying shipping costs. Only one local shop carries any reloading supplies these days, and their selection continues to dwindle. The shop owner claims it’s not profitable anymore. 

Mom willing to order a bulk order of another primers if it will prevent future issues. I’m down to about 300 CCI primers, and will have to purchase more soon anyway.

What would you recommend?

 

I only use CCI, but there is a test circulating the internet, showing primer hardness. This was done in 2012.

Test Procedure: Using a Lee Hardness Tester that measures Brinell hardness, placed a new primer on a piece of steel. Held the indent ball on the primer for 30 seconds. Measurement is the diameter of the indent, smaller numbers indication harder brass.

Pistol primers

• 0.32 – CCI 300 LP
• 0.38 – Federal GM150 Match LP
• 0.40 – Federal 155 LP Magnum
• 0.40 – Winchester WLP
• 0.42 – Federal 150 LP
• 0.42 - Federal 100 SP
• 0.44 – CCI 400 SP
• 0.48 – Remington 2 ½ LP

Rifle primers

• 0.26 – CCI BR-2 LR
• 0.28 – CCI 200 LR
• 0.32 – Federal 215 LR Magnum
• 0.34 – Remington 9 ½ LR

This test was not done under lab conditions and with consumer grade equipment. Will need a grain of salt.

The general census over the years is:

• Federal - easiest
• Winchester
• Remington
• CCI - hardest

I would try some Federal primers next.

If you want the best primer handtool, this is what I'm using. Each click is .0025", for precise seating depth. Perfect feel when seating.

http://www.xxicsi.com/stainless-steel-priming-tool.html

 

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by crockett

[norton]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 10:31 PM, crockett said:

 

I only use CCI, but there is a test circulating the internet, showing primer hardness. This was done in 2012.

Test Procedure: Using a Lee Hardness Tester that measures Brinell hardness, placed a new primer on a piece of steel. Held the indent ball on the primer for 30 seconds. Measurement is the diameter of the indent, smaller numbers indication harder brass.

Pistol primers

• 0.32 – CCI 300 LP
• 0.38 – Federal GM150 Match LP
• 0.40 – Federal 155 LP Magnum
• 0.40 – Winchester WLP
• 0.42 – Federal 150 LP
• 0.42 - Federal 100 SP
• 0.44 – CCI 400 SP
• 0.48 – Remington 2 ½ LP

Rifle primers

• 0.26 – CCI BR-2 LR
• 0.28 – CCI 200 LR
• 0.32 – Federal 215 LR Magnum
• 0.34 – Remington 9 ½ LR

This test was not done under lab conditions and with consumer grade equipment. Will need a grain of salt.

The general census over the years is:

• Federal - easiest
• Winchester
• Remington
• CCI - hardest

I would try some Federal primers next.

If you want the best primer handtool, this is what I'm using. Each click is .0025", for precise seating depth. Perfect feel when seating.

http://www.xxicsi.com/stainless-steel-priming-tool.html

 

 

That's a sweet looking tool Crockett, but it would be way too slow for pistol ammo. 

[crockett]

13 minutes ago, norton said:

That's a sweet looking tool Crockett, but it would be way too slow for pistol ammo. 

I can prime 200 rounds in 10 minutes. The idea behind it is to have a control, and eliminate Collim1's issue.

If I want fast, I crank out 1,000 rounds in 1 hour on my 1050 where setting a good primer depth is a PITA. Mixed range brass and things are all over the place.

Edited October 23, 2018 by crockett

[norton]

Wow Crockett I never would have guessed you could prime that many rounds that quickly handling them one at a time.  It is a nice looking tool, appears to be well made. 

 

I will just stick with my 550, and let it do my pistol priming.

I use a Lee hand primer for my low volume rifle rounds, like .223, .17 Remington and 30.06.  I don't seem to have primer issues with any of those. 

[Wayward Son]

On 10/21/2018 at 9:17 PM, Collim1 said:

It’s the same case of primers I have been using for the last several batches I have worked up. I usually crank out about 400 rounds at a time.  

The primers looked like they got a solid smack, it wasn’t an obvious light strike. 

I will have to carefully inspect and measure my next batch when I seat the primers, but I have never precisely measured seating depth. Just visually inspect and feel the primer after seating before tossing it in the box. 

The revolvers are model 10’s. The hammer speed and spring strength seems normal. The strain screw is screwed in all the way and snug, and the firing pins seems are in good shape.  

I normally tap & rack or pull the trigger again immediately after a malfunction without stopping to inspect the problem so as to build good muscle memory for malfunction clearance, but next time I will carefully inspect each failure to fire and document it so I can get a better idea of what I’m dealing with. 

I buy CCI primers because that’s what available locally without paying shipping costs. Only one local shop carries any reloading supplies these days, and their selection continues to dwindle. The shop owner claims it’s not profitable anymore. 

I am willing to order a bulk order of another primers if it will prevent future issues. I’m down to about 300 CCI primers, and will have to purchase more soon anyway.

What would you recommend?

I used to only use CCI but like you, I started having ignition problems with revolvers.

I like Federal but they can be hard to find. During the Obama years i stumbled into a deal for Wolf primers and have used them with great success. I wish I'd bought more because they were only 14$ per thousand.

Recently I've been using Sellier & Bellot primers and have had good luck with them plus they were only 19$ per thousand.

[Dave.1]

13 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I used to only use CCI but like you, I started having ignition problems with revolvers.

I like Federal but they can be hard to find. During the Obama years i stumbled into a deal for Wolf primers and have used them with great success. I wish I'd bought more because they were only 14$ per thousand.

Recently I've been using Sellier & Bellot primers and have had good luck with them plus they were only 19$ per thousand.

I bought quite a few S&B primers at the $19 per K price too. I found that it took a little more pressure to seat them but now I don't even think about it.

Haven't seen the S&B on sale for a while but I did get a deal (not as good as $19) on Winchester WSP. They do seat a bit easier.

Dave

 

 

[norton]

31 minutes ago, Dave.1 said:

I bought quite a few S&B primers at the $19 per K price too. I found that it took a little more pressure to seat them but now I don't even think about it.

Haven't seen the S&B on sale for a while but I did get a deal (not as good as $19) on Winchester WSP. They do seat a bit easier.

Dave

 

 

I have problems seating the S&B primers in .45 acp, even in S&B cases. 

[Dave.1]

2 hours ago, norton said:

I have problems seating the S&B primers in .45 acp, even in S&B cases. 

I've never loaded on a 550. Does it allow you to put more pressure on the ram to seat deeper? I use a Lee Classic Turret and I can really crank on it if I need to. S&B are the only primers I need to do that with.

Dave

[Wayward Son]

12 hours ago, Dave.1 said:

I bought quite a few S&B primers at the $19 per K price too. I found that it took a little more pressure to seat them but now I don't even think about it.

Haven't seen the S&B on sale for a while but I did get a deal (not as good as $19) on Winchester WSP. They do seat a bit easier.

Dave

 

 

Yeah, they do for a bit snug but they've all gone in and gone bang for me. 

I'm pretty well set for primers at the moment but If I could snag some more of these at a decent price I would.

 

[Collim1]

I loaded the last of mice CCI primers this morning. I did up about 150 rounds of 158 LRN  over 4.0 grains of Winchester to 31. 

 The only local shop that sells reloading supplies anymore has Winchester primers, for $47 per 1000! 

It’s high, but it’s sure cheaper than paying shipping cost. And I don’t reload enough in enough volume to justify buying 10,000 primers at the moment. 

[willie-pete]

I only shoot Federals in revolvers anymore; too many  CCI's didn't go bang.

[crockett]

2 hours ago, Collim1 said:

I loaded the last of mice CCI primers this morning. I did up about 150 rounds of 158 LRN  over 4.0 grains of Winchester to 31. 

 The only local shop that sells reloading supplies anymore has Winchester primers, for $47 per 1000! 

It’s high, but it’s sure cheaper than paying shipping cost. And I don’t reload enough in enough volume to justify buying 10,000 primers at the moment. 

$47?!

I saw them at the gun show for $27.

Have you recently thought about getting out of that state?

[Collim1]

2 hours ago, crockett said:

$47?!

I saw them at the gun show for $27.

Have you recently thought about getting out of that state?

Haha. It’s the only shop in the county that still sells reloading equipment. Their selection is significantly less than it was 15 years ago. They claim the hazmat shipping is the reason for the higher prices.

I may have to drive a county over to another shop and pick up a couple thousand primers at a more reasonable price.  

[norton]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:21 AM, Dave.1 said:

I've never loaded on a 550. Does it allow you to put more pressure on the ram to seat deeper? I use a Lee Classic Turret and I can really crank on it if I need to. S&B are the only primers I need to do that with.

Dave

You can put more pressure on the 550.  But its nerve racking, especially with a full primer magazine. 

[Dave.1]

10 hours ago, norton said:

You can put more pressure on the 550.  But its nerve racking, especially with a full primer magazine. 

Thanks for the info. I found a shop about 40 miles away that has a Dillon display. I'm going to check them out soon.

Dave