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LEOs..any own a Glock 25?


usnret
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  • 2 weeks later...

I asked our LE dealer a couple of months ago when I ordered new guns for our department and he said he's done it before, you just wait an unknown amount of time for it.  Then he asked me if I wanted to order one.  I said, nah, just give me that brand new 45 you just unboxed.

 

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If my information is correct the Glock 25 is available to “agencies only”, meaning that due to BATFE regulations they can only be sold to the LE, but can be “issued” for use by an officer. The gun would actually belong to the department and would have to be returned if the officer left the department. 

There may be a few floating around out there which I’m sure are very high priced, but if BATFE became aware of it, there may be some splainin to do. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎10‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 5:38 PM, Collim1 said:

Never seen one in person nor have I ever found a dealer that can order one, even with LE credentials. 

If  it was possible there would be some out there. I don’t think Glock offers them despite the claim that LE sales only are made. 

True.  Glock has a different program.  It doesn't matter if you send them a copy of your badge and credentials/retired or active/they won't even entertain it unless you get your FOD/Agency Head/Chief to sign off on it.  We would get the forums, and just your stuff didn't make the mark.  Now, there are other places that are more friendly, like BUDS, where with credentials you can get a discount.  Black Point holsters does the same thing.  Hell, Giessel, triggers are great that way.  A 240.00 trigger with shipping, turns into 216.00 with free shipping.   A lot of places you can go.  Glock doesn't play that easily.

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16 hours ago, Moshe said:

I would be surprised if it went too far anyway.  The smallest caliber I would entertain was a 9mm, and would not even consider a .380.

I see this all the time..the below study shows that .380 and above 'results' in armed conflicts pretty much a wash. Add to that a fun to shoot, easily concealable handgun..the small 9mm are no fun at all(Ruger, Glock, etc)..for me. PLUS youtube tests(yes I know but) of ammo like Xtreme Defender by Lehigh and others in .380 show results on par and sometimes better, than 9mm JHP, particularly when shooting at lotsa layers of clothes(clogging)..If Ya can carry  Glock 19 or sig 320(small), go for it but I cannot. 

 

BTW-I carry a G42 everyday with above ammo in it. 

 

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The problem with that, is who are the demographics involved?  They failed to mention that.  If I lived in a crappy neighborhood and all I cold afford was a .380, the odds of me needing it to shoot someone would be much higher.  A 9mm usually also being on the cheap side,,  I could argue the same.  The study is not truly a solid study..  When you live in a crap neighborhood, the odds of having a .357, or .44 magnum are low.  They need to take into account demographics., along with income of the shooter.  I think that will be more of an accurate result, than this caliber killed the most people.

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My point is reliability, shot placement, way more important than 'nothing smaller than'..type arguments. I have read about people who walked away from 44mag shots and died from 22/25/32 cal shots. .380, being a '9mm 'short' and almost the same as a .38...does great in tests, easy to conceal, shoots very well(G42 here)..and with the 'right ammo', can be as effective as many 9mm JHP, particularly when shooting thru a lot of fabric, clothes. I think the study, NOT taking into account demographics, shooter or shootee income, etc, makes it much more objective. 

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16 hours ago, Moshe said:

.380 9mm kurtz does not a .38 make.  You had better hope it is point blank with that one. 

Law enforcement and the military used a standard .38 revolver for decades with great results. Are there 'better' choices today? Of course but saying some other caliber is 'better' than .38 doesn't mean the .38 was 'bad'...

 

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11 minutes ago, Moshe said:

So, again, how does .380 = .38?

Not saying it is equal but  .380, 9mm and .38 are all the same 'caliber'..MY point again, there are far more important things than caliber..and arguments about 'nothing smaller than' mean little when trying to decide on a defensive handgun.

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On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 7:23 AM, usnret said:

My point is reliability, shot placement, way more important than 'nothing smaller than'..type arguments. I have read about people who walked away from 44mag shots and died from 22/25/32 cal shots. .380, being a '9mm 'short' and almost the same as a .38...does great in tests, easy to conceal, shoots very well(G42 here)..and with the 'right ammo', can be as effective as many 9mm JHP, particularly when shooting thru a lot of fabric, clothes. I think the study, NOT taking into account demographics, shooter or shootee income, etc, makes it much more objective. 

Those are walk up, ambush, put it through your face rounds.  .22/.25.  Great for assassination if you can get close enough to your target without them knowing.  It leaves little report, and is easy to suppress.  Outside of murder, not exactly something you can kill long range with.  But, again, think of demographics.  The Loracin .380, if you are old enough to remember, it was the cheap gang banger tool.  When I saw two guys in Mid-High come up to fight with their hand sideways, I did not want to join the crowd of onlookers, skipped by the bus full of Hispanics yelling in Spanish, "Cracker" outside their windows, and got on my bus.  You could hear the pops of the .380's as the bus left.  The two morons missed each other at point blank range.  One bullet went out to no man's land, the other traveled on to onlookers and took out a girl's eye.  She did not die, but was permanently blind in one eye.  Demographics and caliber cannot be overlooked.

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5 minutes ago, Moshe said:

Then perhaps a .25?

I refer to the video about 'real world' study of what's been 'effective' and yes, he says, 32 on down, statistically, is not as effective(32/25/22)...as .380 on up..certainly a .38 is still a viable self defense round. 

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1 minute ago, Moshe said:

Those are walk up, ambush, put it through your face rounds.  .22/.25.  Great for assassination if you can get close enough to your target without them knowing.  It leaves little report, and is easy to suppress.  Outside of murder, not exactly something you can kill long range with.  But, again, think of demographics.  The Loracin .380, if you are old enough to remember, it was the cheap gang banger tool.  When I saw two guys in Mid-High come up to fight with their hand sideways, I did not want to join the crowd of onlookers, skipped by the bus full of Hispanics yelling in Spanish, "Cracker" outside their windows, and got on my bus.  You could hear the pops of the .380's as the bus left.  The two morons missed each other at point blank range.  One bullet went out to no man's land, the other traveled on to onlookers and took out a girl's eye.  She did not die, but was permanently blind in one eye.  Demographics and caliber cannot be overlooked.

I agree but for a 'study' to be as objective as possible, demographics should not be included. What may 'work' in a very safe place probably wouldn't in downtown Somalia..

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Demographics and firearms by income and location SHOULD be studied.  What population buys Hipoint pistols and carbines?  Usually, not the middle class.  How many people in impoverished neighborhoods, are likely to shoot each other?  What demographic buy the weapons that tend to not be on low end of the spectrum, where there is less crime?  The study is far less than scientific.  It is anecdotal. 

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19 hours ago, Moshe said:

Demographics and firearms by income and location SHOULD be studied.  What population buys Hipoint pistols and carbines?  Usually, not the middle class.  How many people in impoverished neighborhoods, are likely to shoot each other?  What demographic buy the weapons that tend to not be on low end of the spectrum, where there is less crime?  The study is far less than scientific.  It is anecdotal. 

Whatever..back to the original premise, your 'nothing smaller than a 9mm', if that's good for you, grovvy but lots disagree..a  LOT say that if it doesn't have a '4' in it, it's ineffective(45/44/40). But know it and carry it and practice with it, all the time..a 9mm in a safe at home isn't as effective as even a wee .25 in your pocket. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, usnret said:

Whatever..back to the original premise, your 'nothing smaller than a 9mm', if that's good for you, grovvy but lots disagree..a  LOT say that if it doesn't have a '4' in it, it's ineffective(45/44/40). But know it and carry it and practice with it, all the time..a 9mm in a safe at home isn't as effective as even a wee .25 in your pocket. 

 

 

Lots of small calibers are good for assassination at point blank range.  But, if you want an actual scientific study, rather than an anecdotal.  If it included demographics of the user, income/race/good neighborhood/violent neighborhood.  Then the caliber by death would be put into perspective.  Also, the training of the shooter, the distance involved.  These are all missing.  Therefore, it is completely anecdotal.  There is nothing scientific about it.

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15 minutes ago, Moshe said:

Lots of small calibers are good for assassination at point blank range.  But, if you want an actual scientific study, rather than an anecdotal.  If it included demographics of the user, income/race/good neighborhood/violent neighborhood.  Then the caliber by death would be put into perspective.  Also, the training of the shooter, the distance involved.  These are all missing.  Therefore, it is completely anecdotal.  There is nothing scientific about it.

OK..show me a study that does that and I'd be happy to read it. In it's absence, I'll take the info in the mentioned 'study', and gleen from it what I think makes sense and what doesn't, to me. It confirms TO ME, that carrying a .380, even tho NOT a 9mm, is an 'effective' choice. As an example, the study also says a long gun is the 'best' for self defense but that's certainly not the most 'practical' choice. 

YMMV and all that. 

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It does not follow the scientific method at all.  .44 magnum?  Not many ghetto shootings involve that.  Someone in a panic with that kind of firepower is likely to take a limb off.  Not fatal.  So, number of fatalities by caliber does not include the who, what, why, and where.  When it does, I will take it seriously.  Further, if you have seen a use of force form, that I have had to live with it asks for night/day-heck even barometric pressure.  The information required is extensive.  This is a compilation of fatalities.  That doesn't tell me much.  Hmm, .44 magnum, could it be an older gentlemen having a break in the dark at his home, and he grabs it in a panic and does the best he can?  Or, the smaller calibers, are what they can get in say, the crap part of Chicago, and kids are murdering kids with them?  There a ton of variables that are not addressed in this so-called "study".    The FBI tries to be vague, often by the Executive to gin up numbers, to make it look like crime is up or down statistically.  This presentation is worse than that.

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22 hours ago, Moshe said:

It does not follow the scientific method at all.  .44 magnum?  Not many ghetto shootings involve that.  Someone in a panic with that kind of firepower is likely to take a limb off.  Not fatal.  So, number of fatalities by caliber does not include the who, what, why, and where.  When it does, I will take it seriously.  Further, if you have seen a use of force form, that I have had to live with it asks for night/day-heck even barometric pressure.  The information required is extensive.  This is a compilation of fatalities.  That doesn't tell me much.  Hmm, .44 magnum, could it be an older gentlemen having a break in the dark at his home, and he grabs it in a panic and does the best he can?  Or, the smaller calibers, are what they can get in say, the crap part of Chicago, and kids are murdering kids with them?  There a ton of variables that are not addressed in this so-called "study".    The FBI tries to be vague, often by the Executive to gin up numbers, to make it look like crime is up or down statistically.  This presentation is worse than that.

OK, point me to a more 'objective' study that reinforces the '9mm is the minimum' caliber for personal defense. 

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The smallest caliber I would entertain was a 9mm, and would not even consider a .380.

 

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