The weight loss struggle begins anew...

[tous]

Let us understand the science on a basic  Mr. Wizard basis.

A calorie is a unit of energy, often mistaken as a unit of heat, required to raise one gram of water one degree centigrade.

Every physicist, chemist and engineer knows this as well as we know our own names.

Just a unit of energy.  No more, no less.  In science and engineering, we generally speak in terms of kilocalories (1000 calories) as a single calorie is a very small thing and generally not significant.

The human body is just a machine, a chemical factory and as such, requires energy to operate: calories.

If the calorie is the energy for the squishy factory, what is the fuel?

Simple organic molecules such as sugars, more complex molecules such as starches.

Our squishy chemical factory breaks down the more complex sugars, there are a bazillion variations, and starches into very simple sugars that cells can use.

Another source of fuel are fats.   Now, fats are very complex molecules compared to sugars and carbohydrates, so it takes a lot more energy to convert fats to useful simple sugars to feed cells.

So, we can reasonably posit that when our little pink bodies need to function, we need fuel and the energy to process the fuel; the easiest fuel first: simple sugars, carbohydrates, fats.

 

That is just a very basic description, but it's the way things work.  All of the myth, self-help books, advice from cousins or television actors can't change that.

Try and the Universe laughs.

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by tous

[Rabbi]

33 minutes ago, tous said:

Let us understand the science on a basic  Mr. Wizard basis.

A calorie is a unit of energy, often mistaken as a unit of heat, required to raise one gram of water one degree centigrade.

Every physicist, chemist and engineer knows this as well as we know our own names.

Just a unit of energy.  No more, no less.  In science and engineering, we generally speak in terms of kilocalories (1000 calories) as a single calorie is a very small thing and generally not significant.

The human body is just a machine, a chemical factory and as such, requires energy to operate: calories.

If the calorie is the energy for the squishy factory, what is the fuel?

Simple organic molecules such as sugars, more complex molecules such as starches.

Our squishy chemical factory breaks down the more complex sugars, there are a bazillion variations, and starches into very simple sugars that cells can use.

Another source of fuel are fats.   Now, fats are very complex molecules compared to sugars and carbohydrates, so it takes a lot more energy to convert fats to useful simple sugars to feed cells.

So, we can reasonably posit that when our little pink bodies need to function, we need fuel and the energy to process the fuel; the easiest fuel first: simple sugars, carbohydrates, fats.

 

That is just a very basic description, but it's the way things work.  All of the myth, self-help books, advice from cousins or television actors can't change that.

Try and the Universe laughs.

 

Yep. The laws of physics always win. 

 

Now, if only I was a physicist.....  

[AerynSun2]

8 minutes ago, Rabbi said:

Yep. The laws of physics always win. 

 

Now, if only I was a physicist.....  

We use defense mechanisms to protect ourselves from feelings of anxiety or guilt, which arise because we feel threatened, or because our id or superego becomes too demanding.  They are not under our conscious control, and are non-voluntaristic. 

 

Ego-defense mechanisms are natural and normal.  When they get out of proportion (i.e., used with frequency), neuroses develop, such as anxiety states, phobias, obsessions, or hysteria.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/defense-mechanisms.html

[tous]

Should I confuse folk by noting that as chemists generally use calories, physicists and engineers generally use joules as the preferred unit of energy?

Why?

Because chemists are concerned with the energies involved in breaking and constructing molecules witch either consume or produce heat, so calories are great.

But, in physics and engineering, we care more about  a system's ability to do work, thus, we like joules.

I won't mention it.

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by tous

[tous]

Just now, AerynSun2 said:

We use defense mechanisms to protect ourselves from feelings of anxiety or guilt, which arise because we feel threatened, or because our id or superego becomes too demanding.  They are not under our conscious control, and are non-voluntaristic. 

 

Ego-defense mechanisms are natural and normal.  When they get out of proportion (i.e., used with frequency), neuroses develop, such as anxiety states, phobias, obsessions, or hysteria.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/defense-mechanisms.html

Son, I have the feeling that if an elephant was sitting on your chest, you would posit that the elephant didn't exist and anyone noting that there is an elephant on your chest is either mistaken or crazy.

I join Rabbi in simply dismissing you, sir.

[Rabbi]

9 minutes ago, tous said:

Son, I have the feeling that if an elephant was sitting on your chest, you would posit that the elephant didn't exist and anyone noting that there is an elephant on your chest is either mistaken or crazy.

I join Rabbi in simply dismissing you, sir.

If only you were an Engineer.

 

 

[tous]

But, but, I have a slide rule and I'm not afraid to use it.

Edited October 22, 2018 by tous

[Rabbi]

1 minute ago, tous said:

But, but, I have a slide rule and I'm not afraid to use it.

You also have an ice cream fetish. 

 

That is ok, my airplane needs a diaper.  

[EdTracker]

Here's some weight loss physics for you...

 

 

Olde School

[tadbart]

9 hours ago, tous said:

Let us understand the science on a basic  Mr. Wizard basis.

A calorie is a unit of energy, often mistaken as a unit of heat, required to raise one gram of water one degree centigrade.

Every physicist, chemist and engineer knows this as well as we know our own names.

Just a unit of energy.  No more, no less.  In science and engineering, we generally speak in terms of kilocalories (1000 calories) as a single calorie is a very small thing and generally not significant.

The human body is just a machine, a chemical factory and as such, requires energy to operate: calories.

If the calorie is the energy for the squishy factory, what is the fuel?

Simple organic molecules such as sugars, more complex molecules such as starches.

Our squishy chemical factory breaks down the more complex sugars, there are a bazillion variations, and starches into very simple sugars that cells can use.

Another source of fuel are fats.   Now, fats are very complex molecules compared to sugars and carbohydrates, so it takes a lot more energy to convert fats to useful simple sugars to feed cells.

So, we can reasonably posit that when our little pink bodies need to function, we need fuel and the energy to process the fuel; the easiest fuel first: simple sugars, carbohydrates, fats.

 

That is just a very basic description, but it's the way things work.  All of the myth, self-help books, advice from cousins or television actors can't change that.

Try and the Universe laughs.

 

This. Exactly.

I mighta added a diagram of the Krebs Cycle and a definition of gluconeogenesis in there, but yeah.

If physics is just the interaction between the fabric of the universe, bio and chem have to be a part of that. When you get down on a tiny level, our factories take big chunks of ore and refine them to create usable fuel for energy. A byproduct of that is heat/energy, which we can measure.

It blows my mind how interconnected everything really is. I never woulda thought, way back when I was dicking around with my friends in high school chemistry, or later in EMT school, that I would have to know so much of that crap to wind up doing what I do these days. A lot of this biology stuff works, because the actual physical shape of a certain molecule or ion just physically fits where it's supposed to.

[jilverthor]

I have always heard it as this:

 

In college you learn that Biology is Applied Chemistry; Chemistry is applied physics; and physics is applied math.

[AerynSun2]

12 hours ago, tous said:

Son, I have the feeling that if an elephant was sitting on your chest, you would posit that the elephant didn't exist and anyone noting that there is an elephant on your chest is either mistaken or crazy.

I join Rabbi in simply dismissing you, sir.

Can you explain that one to me?

[TBO]

[tous]

8 hours ago, tadbart said:

This. Exactly.

I mighta added a diagram of the Krebs Cycle and a definition of gluconeogenesis in there, but yeah.

If physics is just the interaction between the fabric of the universe, bio and chem have to be a part of that. When you get down on a tiny level, our factories take big chunks of ore and refine them to create usable fuel for energy. A byproduct of that is heat/energy, which we can measure.

It blows my mind how interconnected everything really is. I never woulda thought, way back when I was dicking around with my friends in high school chemistry, or later in EMT school, that I would have to know so much of that crap to wind up doing what I do these days. A lot of this biology stuff works, because the actual physical shape of a certain molecule or ion just physically fits where it's supposed to.

I was so absorbed in the awesomeness of science, I failed to get to the relevant effect.

If the squishy factory consumes fuel from the easiest to process to the hardest, sugars, carbohydrates, fats, what happens if we have more fuel than is required to run the factory?

Like any good factory manager, our little pink bodies store the fuel for future use.

Stored fuel is mass and mass, when accelerated by gravity, is defined as weight.

 

tadbart, I wish  I could impress upon young'uns that science, from the tiniest subatomic particle to the expanse of the Universe is so fascinating and  so much fun that they will never be bored another day in their lives.

Heck, you can study just a tiny portion for a lifetime and still not understand everything about it.

There is always one more question, one more experiment, one more answer to find.

 

[tadbart]

9 minutes ago, tous said:

I was so absorbed in the awesomeness of science, I failed to get to the relevant effect.

If the squishy factory consumes fuel from the easiest to process to the hardest, sugars, carbohydrates, fats, what happens if we have more fuel than is required to run the factory?

Like any good factory manager, our little pink bodies store the fuel for future use.

Stored fuel is mass and mass, when accelerated by gravity, is defined as weight.

 

tadbart, I wish  I could impress upon young'uns that science, from the tiniest subatomic particle to the expanse of the Universe is so fascinating and  so much fun that they will never be bored another day in their lives.

Heck, you can study just a tiny portion for a lifetime and still not understand everything about it.

There is always one more question, one more experiment, one more answer to find.

 

There are MANY with greater gifts of intellect than I possess. From my limited grasp, and continuing education, there's no doubt I'll be learning for the rest of my life. So far, it's been a blast!

[OldCop71]

I've dropped nearly 50 lbs since March doing Keto. I'm not strict or a Nazi about it.  I'll allow myself a cheat day occasionally, and I drink alcohol every night with diet drinks, which is not recommended.  BUT, it works for me.  I was at 283 at my highest, and I'm 235 now.  I plan on losing another 30ish pounds, and then go to a maintain status.  

[Borg warner]

All scientific considerations aside, losing weight  has more to do with psychology than it does physiology.  it's the psychology of self-discipline and denial of gratification. and it's coming to grips with the fact that anything that tastes really good (except for sashimi which is pure protein) is probably going to make you fat.

We know what foods make us fat. And we know what quantities of food make us fat. Over the years I've seen friends put signs on their refrigerators to  help motivate them. One sign read, "Never eat more than you can Lift". another one had an unflatering picture of my friend with his bare belly hanging over his pants and next to the picture in big letters, he had  written, "Have another hot dog, fat boy!" Niethr of these signs worked.

Another friend had a theory that had nothing to do with calories or carbs, only quantity. He said that  if you could only spend seven dollars a day on food you would lose weight no matter what you ate whether it was a seven dollar salad or a seven dollar chocolate cake.  Keep in mind that I first heard this back in about 1990 and adjusted for inflation, seven dollars in 1990 would be $13.68 today.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Borg warner

[tous]

Well said, amigo.

I tend to ignore the psychology of biology because quantifying the physics is so much easier than trying to understand why people do what they do.

I'll stick to my slide rule.

 

[Borg warner]

10 minutes ago, tous said:

Well said, amigo.

I tend to ignore the psychology of biology because quantifying the physics is so much easier than trying to understand why people do what they do.

I'll stick to my slide rule.

 

Psychology is an inexact science but basic psychology isn't that hard to figure out.  It's like you see someone who is overweight in the supermarket and their shopping cart if filled with a whole bunch of fattening food and then an equal amount of stuff that says. "Diet' or "Light" on it to balance things out and you don't need to have a doctorate in psychology to figure out why that person is fat. Same thing goes for people at the buffet going back and filling their plates 5 times.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Borg warner

[ARP]

On 10/20/2018 at 6:59 PM, ARP said:

Well it is time for me to get after the weight. I did a keto type of eating about 20 years ago, lost about 25lb or so, kept it off for a number of years. And when I changed careers about 10 years or so ago, I became less active. So I'll relate what my experiences were.

I did the big loss without doing any cardio or exercise. I did begin exercise after the big loss was started, riding bicycle. Was averaging 16mph for the most part(I realize that the number is somewhat meaningless for anyone who is "in to" a serious training program). The food was heavily protein based, cutting carbs heavily, cheese, dairy, vegetables, eliminating regular soda(1 can of regular soda has about 1/2 of a day's worth of carbo), corn chips/potato chips(10 chips =about 1/3 of a day's worth). The "bible" I used was Protein Power, it gives a good explanation of how things work physically, what to expect to feel, more or less says to throw away the scale and focus on how your clothes fit. As you lose weight, the looser fitting clothing is a great motivator. You can eat as much as you want, just restrict the carbs.

This will go on for about 6 weeks or so, you lose the desire to eat the carb heavy stuff, sugary stuff does not taste that good. Your body reverses from burning the carb you eat to burning the fat you have stored. You pee a lot, need to drink a lot of water to balance the loss of fluid, and your pee stinks, that is the sign that you are in a state of ketosis. Also, there is a risk of developing kidney stones, they hurt. I think I may have had one, it hurt and I was off work a few days, then my rt nut got swollen. You poop less too. You might get bad breath as well. You lose weight all over, not just from your gut, it kind of goes in reverse. The most recent place the fat was stored is the first to go, you lose it off your face, neck, back, butt, stomach, legs. Another good check to see if you are losing fat is to check your hat fit.

So I am in day 3 of my carb restriction eating. Trying to limit carb intake to under 75 gr of carb per day, allows about 25 per meal. Another down side is of the keto you need to watch out for is muscle loss on top of fat loss. So I intend to get lifting again again, and be careful not to take the whole thing too far. You do gain some energy level from the change of eating, so I intend to channel that to lifting and other activities.

Best to all who are trying to lose tonnage, please give progress reports, I will. 

Oh and, 67 y/o Greg Norman, former pro golfer works out 2 hours every day. He says the hardest thing about staying in shape is staying motivated, not the discipline to not eat food that will pack on pounds. You can still enjoy burgers and sandwiches and stuff, just throw away the top half of the bun and eat it with a fork, you removed 50% of the carb from the meal. Eggs and bacon etc for breakfast, 1 piece of toast(17 gram of carb), just know the carb values of what you are eating.

A few things to add that I had forgot about but came back to me this past weekend;

You did not get to this condition overnight, so if you plan to lose weight to a specific goal, the weight should come off at a rate of 1-2lb a week. You might plateau, and the weight stops coming off. But again as I said above, don't get hung up on the scale, be concerned about how the clothes fit. Muscle is heavier than fat, be concerned about losing too much weight, it could be muscle. You win this war one bite at a time, one meal at a time, one day at a time.

I have the dreaded dad body getting a slight pear shape. Because my body type is lanky, I can carry a few extra pounds. But I have reached maximum density and are on the verge(if I had continued eating at will) of completely being overwhelmed. Still doing a decent streak, yesterday I suffered a loss, it was a situation where eat pizza or nothing, I ate. It was very thin crust, so not as bad as it could have been. Anyway, got back on the wagon right away eating some kind of egg cheese bacon thingy on a half a muffin later that evening. Today was more of the same restricted carb eating. Found this trail mix type stuff at walmart called Omega 3 mix, has cranberries in it, about 10 grams of carb a serving, I eat with mild cheddar cheese sticks, filling. Might go to the celery sticks and peanut butter for another filling snack, just have to be mindful of portion, easy to get rolling on that and blow thru parameters you set. All any of us can do is keep with it.

I'm sleeping better, seem to not need or get the feeling of needing a nap about 2pm and hopefully can lay off the caffeine supplements.

[Peng]

Here's my 2 cents having done it a few times.

My biggest issue was not reducing calories.  I found the right foods at 1,500 cal/day without feeling like a prisoner of war.

My issue was alcohol.  You could say just count the calories and you're good.  True enough, but the appetite stimulating effect was overwhelming for me.  Beer not so bad, wine was the worst, spirits somewhere in between.  A real diet killer for me.  Avoid and your job is much easier.

Edited November 3, 2018 by Peng

[tadbart]

@Peng I cannot agree enough about alcohol lowering the inhibition to eat. It's a double edged sword. 1. it has calories. 2. it decreases the will-power to not eat. Unfortunately, I'm having a harder time staying away from the booze than I am eating right. I thought the answer was to have a bottle on hand and maybe have a drink one or two nights a week, but that quickly turned back into having a drink every night. Perhaps the best thing for me is to not have any everyday whiskey in the house, and leave the special occasion hooch in the safe.

[PNWguy]

Down to 304.5 this morning.  Now going for a walk...

[TeaDub]

2 hours ago, PNWguy said:

Down to 304.5 this morning.  Now going for a walk...

Outstanding. It sounds like you know what works for your body. Stick with it and you'll get there.

I need to lose 15-20 pounds to get back to my high school weight. While I'm very intrigued by Keto, I don't believe that I could stick with it. What I have done recently is incorporate intermittent fasting (16/8) into my schedule 3-5 times a week. For me, that means drinking black coffee in the morning and eat between 11AM to 7PM. I've found that very easy to do. Cutting out most sugars and starches as well. It not as quick this way but seems easy to maintain.

After reading a bit about IF, the health benefits seem far greater than just weight loss.

[Peng]

6 hours ago, tadbart said:

@Peng I cannot agree enough about alcohol lowering the inhibition to eat. It's a double edged sword. 1. it has calories. 2. it decreases the will-power to not eat. Unfortunately, I'm having a harder time staying away from the booze than I am eating right. I thought the answer was to have a bottle on hand and maybe have a drink one or two nights a week, but that quickly turned back into having a drink every night. Perhaps the best thing for me is to not have any everyday whiskey in the house, and leave the special occasion hooch in the safe.

It is scary how strong the appetite stimulation is.  I've found that if I have a bottle around, I will drink...a bottle.

So it's best for me to not have it around.  I'm not a drunk, and don't even get drunk, but I do like to sip on my Tequila or Cognac or Irish Whisky.

It's always the same, funny.  I'm good for breakfast and lunch, right at 1,000 calories.  I have a few then I say screw it and order a pizza or make a Thai or Del Taco run.  I know better yet I tend to keep doing it.