Property tax vs sales tax - what do you think?

[gwalchmai]

The county I grew up in is voting on continuing a local option sales tax (I don't live there anymore, but I visit a lot). The commission wants it bad (they've already borrowed against it), but the voters aren't so sure. I always vote against such things because they let the politicians off the hook for making hard decisions. Our county always passes them because they're successfully sold as a way to prevent property tax hikes (which still happen, somehow).

What's your take? Do you have these things in your locale and do they help?

Thanks!

[Cougar_ml]

27 minutes ago, gwalchmai said:

The county I grew up in is voting on continuing a local option sales tax (I don't live there anymore, but I visit a lot). The commission wants it bad (they've already borrowed against it), but the voters aren't so sure. I always vote against such things because they let the politicians off the hook for making hard decisions. Our county always passes them because they're successfully sold as a way to prevent property tax hikes (which still happen, somehow).

What's your take? Do you have these things in your locale and do they help?

Thanks!

So to prevent having to pay additional taxes they voluntarily approve of paying additional taxes...

And people wonder why nobody likes the government.

[billkill]

In my county, the govt pushed a $30 wheel tax that had to be voted in the general election.

When they faced opposition, the govt said they would then be forced to raise property taxes.

As you can imagine, the wheel tax passed.

Guess what the govt did the very next year?

[jmohme]

47 minutes ago, gwalchmai said:

The county I grew up in is voting on continuing a local option sales tax (I don't live there anymore, but I visit a lot). The commission wants it bad (they've already borrowed against it), but the voters aren't so sure. I always vote against such things because they let the politicians off the hook for making hard decisions. Our county always passes them because they're successfully sold as a way to prevent property tax hikes (which still happen, somehow).

What's your take? Do you have these things in your locale and do they help?

Thanks!

This should be the red flag.

If politicians want it bad, it probably is bad for the people.

[gwalchmai]

One initiative the commission likes is to expand the county's little airport to accommodate corporate jets. Someone pointed out that the neighboring county expanded their airport (five miles down the road) and now gets maybe 2 jets per week. Local pilots said the expansion wouldn't do them any good.

One commissioner has a brother with a large construction firm which would work on the expansion.

Edited October 10, 2018 by gwalchmai

[gwalchmai]

31 minutes ago, Cougar_ml said:

So to prevent having to pay additional taxes they voluntarily approve of paying additional taxes...

And people wonder why nobody likes the government.

Yeah, but here's the deal, see. By raising the sales tax that takes the burden off all the property owners and puts it on all the tourists and other folks who come in and spend money in the county. That way we make all the non-residents pay for the infrastructure. One resident noted "It worked for Gatlinburg. They pay for everything with sales tax." I pointed out that there is no tourism in the county and the only businesses are WalMart and sandwich shops. I was considered a wet blanket and told that homeowners have to pay both mortgages and property taxes, but renters only have to pay rent, thus sales taxes are more fair.

[EricB]

Property tax is slavery. A citizen should be able to own their land outright if they have paid for it.

 

Essentially you are just renting your land from the fiefdom for a yearly fee which if you do not tithe  yearly they will take it away and kick you off.  That is NOT freedom.

Edited October 10, 2018 by EricB

[Brown Hawk]

28 minutes ago, EricB said:

Property tax is slavery. A citizen should be able to own their land outright if they have paid for it.

 

Essentially you are just renting your land from the fiefdom for a yearly fee which if you do not tithe  yearly they will take it away and kick you off.  That is NOT freedom.

Like everything else, it is a compromise, otherwise, how do you pay for the roads, fire, or police.  As a homeowner you used to have to do upkeep on the roads fronting your property, and you could charge anyone using that section, which is where the turnpike name came from.  

The problem comes when it ends up paying $3000 for a chair for some politicians to sit on while they plot how to steal your money for their bank accounts.?. 

Hawk 

[GPM]

1 hour ago, gwalchmai said:

I was considered a wet blanket and told that homeowners have to pay both mortgages and property taxes, but renters only have to pay rent, thus sales taxes are more fair.

Its hard to have a discussion with someone who doesn't understand that a property owner will set the price of a rental to cover that property tax. Its just like saying we should only tax businesses. After all, they'd never think to pass on the cost of the taxes to consumers.

[billkill]

1 hour ago, gwalchmai said:

Yeah, but here's the deal, see. By raising the sales tax that takes the burden off all the property owners and puts it on all the tourists and other folks who come in and spend money in the county. That way we make all the non-residents pay for the infrastructure. One resident noted "It worked for Gatlinburg. They pay for everything with sales tax." I pointed out that there is no tourism in the county and the only businesses are WalMart and sandwich shops. I was considered a wet blanket and told that homeowners have to pay both mortgages and property taxes, but renters only have to pay rent, thus sales taxes are more fair.

That was the same reason Haslam gave to raise the fuel tax "Think of all the dollars we are missing out by not taxing those people passing through Tennessee"

It might have worked if we weren't an East to West skinny state that gets mostly North and South traffic.

Of course the Haslam family owning Pilot Oil didn't benefit from the increase in revenue.

[gwalchmai]

35 minutes ago, GPM said:

Its hard to have a discussion with someone who doesn't understand that a property owner will set the price of a rental to cover that property tax. Its just like saying we should only tax businesses. After all, they'd never think to pass on the cost of the taxes to consumers.

Yes, the lady I was discussing this with countered that argument with the fact that not all homeowners rent their properties. I was stopped dead in my tracks.

[Mrs.Cicero]

I'd rather pay sales tax than property tax.  

[EricB]

1 hour ago, Brown Hawk said:

Like everything else, it is a compromise, otherwise, how do you pay for the roads, fire, or police.  As a homeowner you used to have to do upkeep on the roads fronting your property, and you could charge anyone using that section, which is where the turnpike name came from.  

The problem comes when it ends up paying $3000 for a chair for some politicians to sit on while they plot how to steal your money for their bank accounts.?. 

Hawk 

There should be NO compromise on property. The taxes should be raised elsewhere. You are not free if you cannot own your property outright.

[Cubdriver]

Much as I hate taxes, I think sales and/or income taxes are much 'fairer' than property taxes.  Once I buy something, it should be mine and I should not have to pay the government money every year to keep it.  Likewise, if I spend money and expend effort to improve my home, I should not as a result owe the .gov more money.

Sales taxes might be the fairest if applied uniformly - you spend $$, you pay the tax.

In the grand scheme of things,however, the .gov needs to stop spending on things they've no business spending on, and become much more efficient so that they burn more cleanly and need less $$.  (Yeah, I know, not likely to happen.)

-Pat

[Cougar_ml]

The other issue with property taxes is you have to pay them based on what the government says the property is worth, which often has absolutely nothing to do with how much anyone is willing to pay for it.

In reality, property taxes should be based on what the assessed value was at time of purchase.  I've heard of too many people that end up losing their dream/retirement property when the city or county decides that the area is now prime real estate worth much more than any normal person is able to afford to pay the taxes on.  If tax was based on price at time of sale then this wouldn't be as much of an issue as everyone would know exactly what they are getting into.

[Cougar_ml]

And also to add, I've never heard of anyone's property tax that they owe ever decreasing even if the property values in the area decline.  That might just be for this area though.

[Historian]

4 hours ago, Mrs.Cicero said:

I'd rather pay sales tax than property tax.  

I totally agree.  A sales tax means that I participate when I spend my money...not on what i already own.

I've seen this from inside the sausage factory and quite frankly....it's a racket.

[gwalchmai]

3 hours ago, Cubdriver said:

In the grand scheme of things,however, the .gov needs to stop spending on things they've no business spending on, and become much more efficient so that they burn more cleanly and need less $$.  (Yeah, I know, not likely to happen.)

 

QFT.

[gwalchmai]

1 hour ago, Historian said:

I totally agree.  A sales tax means that I participate when I spend my money...not on what i already own.

 

I understand, but we also pay the vendor's property tax when we make a purchase, so it gets spread out "fairly". I always put "fair"  and "fairly" in quotes in these discussions because, like "racism" they've lost their meaning in our society.

[Walt Longmire]

I paid my property off years ago. I still get a bill every year from the Borough. Crooks.

[crockett]

Sometimes I think this beautiful country needs a hard reset. Too many crooks, too much corruption, way too many losers with voting power.

[RenoF250]

I think the county should get their money by selling politician pelts, meat, and blood.  Useless maggots just suck money and piss it away.  City and county govts are useless shitbags.

[Cougar_ml]

33 minutes ago, RenoF250 said:

I think the county should get their money by selling politician pelts, meat, and blood.  Useless maggots just suck money and piss it away.  City and county govts are useless shitbags.

Wouldn't work, things that are rotten don't have much value to begin with.

[RenoF250]

3 minutes ago, Cougar_ml said:

Wouldn't work, things that are rotten don't have much value to begin with.

Yeah, but without politicians we don't need the tax money and I don't think you are going to get many politicians hanging out to donate their pelts.

[PNWguy]

It's like what my son-in-law's grandparents faced.

He was a successful dentist and built a beautiful "cabin" on Priest River in Idaho.

He now has to go to a nursing home and wanted to pass on the property to his kids.

The problem is that the taxes are too much.

Around $5k a month.  None of his middle class kids can afford to inherit the home.

It's sad, really.