c10bonanza Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I’ve always been a 9mm guy since I bought my first pistol 15 years ago. I’m considering purchasing a 10mm as a woods gun for Colorado (I go fishing/camping there 3-4 times a year). In doing so I keep coming across threads talking about swapping in a .40 barrel for cheaper shooting. Long story short, why the decline in .40 popularity in the past few years? Seems like it was the only handgun ammo that was actually available during the last ammo shortage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 It really doesn't have any advantage over a 9mm. Yet there are several disadvantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c10bonanza Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 Snappier recoil? What are other disadvantages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, c10bonanza said: Snappier recoil? What are other disadvantages? Capacity, gun longevity/breakage, cost of ammo, (arguably) speed and mechanical accuracy. Edited September 10, 2018 by Boogieman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason D Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 You have to understand how the .40 came into being. On the first day... God said "let there be 10mm". On the second day... The FBI said ''10mm was too powerful, so load us some 10mm light''. On the third day... Some enterprising soul decided they could get 10mm light out of a shorter casing and in a smaller gun. On the forth day... The Police said ''give us your .40's and send us out to do the Lord's work''. On the fifth day... Everyone and his Momma ran out to buy guns in .40. On the sixth day... The FBI says ''the .40 sucks and the inferior 9mm is now is king''. On the seventh day... God starts handloading 10mm's, and the 10mm rises again. Originally the Norma 10mm load was too hot for even the Brens, so it was downloaded. The FBI wanted it downloaded even more, and the 10mm Light came to be. Someone from S&W replicated the lighter loads in a shorter case, and they shoehorned it into guns not really designed for it. The .40 is still a high pressure round and had a tendency to batter guns. It does well in guns that were designed around the round itself. The FBI was looking for a more modular pistol that would fit everyone, and a round that everyone could shoot well. They claimed the 9mm is now as good as all other heavier and more powerful rounds, and the lemmings run to ditch the guns they had for smaller and weaker. People on the forums go back and forth about the hate for this or that, it's really been done to death. The simple fact is that the 9mm is a minimal acceptable defensive round, but it can be accurately shot by just about anyone. The .40 has more recoil and tends to torque the front of the gun around in lighter weight guns. People don't like that. I think it's only real crime is not being a 10mm. 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citra47 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, c10bonanza said: I’ve always been a 9mm guy since I bought my first pistol 15 years ago. I’m considering purchasing a 10mm as a woods gun for Colorado (I go fishing/camping there 3-4 times a year). In doing so I keep coming across threads talking about swapping in a .40 barrel for cheaper shooting. Long story short, why the decline in .40 popularity in the past few years? Seems like it was the only handgun ammo that was actually available during the last ammo shortage. Group mentality. FBI changed from .40 S&W to 9mm because it was easier to handle and qualify with AND with modern ammunition the 9mm is much more efficient than it was when the FBI dropped it like a hot potato for the 10mm after Miami. Group Mentality is simply the group (public & law enforcement) wanting to run the same caliber as the Feds. The .40 S&W has not gone away. Many of us will continue to carry that caliber as primary. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c10bonanza Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jason D said: I think it's only real crime is not being a 10mm. Great summary—thanks! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason D Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, Boogieman said: Capacity, gun longevity/breakage, cost of ammo, (arguably) speed and mechanical accuracy. It gives you the power of the .45 in a 9mm sized gun, and with the near capacity of the 9mm. I've shot the .40 for nearly 20 year and have not broken a gun yet, and can reload it cheaply. You could always find ball ammo for at or near the price of 9mm. I'll take a 180 grain HST any day of the week over any 9mm load. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citra47 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, Boogieman said: It really doesn't have any advantage over a 9mm. Yet there are several disadvantages. Let's make believe you can only get hardball. If you could still tell me .40 S&W had no advantage over 9mm at least I could have a good laugh and more ammo available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c10bonanza Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Citra47 said: Group mentality. Makes perfect sense! Seems like a longer aftermarket 10mm barrel for a G20 for hunting g and a standard length .40 barrel may be great choices for alternatives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 The 40's popularity was boosted by the traitorous Clinton 10 rd magazine capacity limit. At the time 40 performed better than the 9mm. So it was better to have 10 rounds of 40 than 9. Now that there's no real performance difference why not have more rounds of an equally effective cartridge? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citra47 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, c10bonanza said: Makes perfect sense! Seems like a longer aftermarket 10mm barrel for a G20 for hunting g and a standard length .40 barrel may be great choices for alternatives. That would be a good set up for heavy game and lighter - um stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c10bonanza Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Jason D said: It gives you the power of the .45 in a 9mm sized gun, and with the near capacity of the 9mm. I've shot the .40 for nearly 20 year and have not broken a gun yet, and can reload it cheaply. You could always find ball ammo for at or near the price of 9mm. I'll take a 180 grain HST any day of the week over any 9mm load. I’ve only shot .40 once, and did find it much snappier. That’s why my preferred round is 9mm. But, I recently shot a G20 with warm 10mm loadings, not the downloaded stuff available on the shelf but also not Underwood loads either. I expected it to be very snappy. I don’t know why, but it had much more pleasant recoil than expected. A tad sharper than the thump from a .45, but not the crack i have experienced from a .40. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jason D said: It gives you the power of the .45 in a 9mm sized gun, and with the near capacity of the 9mm. I've shot the .40 for nearly 20 year and have not broken a gun yet, and can reload it cheaply. You could always find ball ammo for at or near the price of 9mm. I'll take a 180 grain HST any day of the week over any 9mm load. And that is your choice. But the 40 is no more effective than a 45 or 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citra47 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Boogieman said: The 40's popularity was boosted by the traitorous Clinton 10 rd magazine capacity limit. At the time 40 performed better than the 9mm. So it was better to have 10 rounds of 40 than 9. Now that there's no real performance difference why not have more rounds of an equally effective cartridge? ? That's pretty much what I said. 3 minutes ago, c10bonanza said: I’ve only shot .40 once, and did find it much snappier. That’s why my preferred round is 9mm. But, I recently shot a G20 with warm 10mm loadings, not the downloaded stuff available on the shelf but also not Underwood loads either. I expected it to be very snappy. I don’t know why, but it had much more pleasant recoil than expected. A tad sharper than the thump from a .45, but not the crack i have experienced from a .40. The G20 frame is heavier, and larger, than the G22. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, Citra47 said: Let's make believe you can only get hardball. If you could still tell me .40 S&W had no advantage over 9mm at least I could have a good laugh and more ammo available. Do you carry hardball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citra47 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Just now, Boogieman said: Do you carry hardball? No, but if I did I would have been carrying .40 or .45. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c10bonanza Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Citra47 said: The G20 frame is heavier, and larger, than the G22. The .40 i shot was some S&W Sigma piece of crap with the worst trigger I’ve ever used (worse than a Gen 1 LCP!). I’m sure that didn’t help! Edited September 10, 2018 by c10bonanza 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Just now, Citra47 said: No, but if I did I would have been carrying .40 or .45. Fair enough. But here in the civilized world we carry expanding ammunition. And there's little to no difference in the effectiveness of 9/40/45/357. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citra47 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Boogieman said: Fair enough. But here in the civilized world we carry expanding ammunition. And there's little to no difference in the effectiveness of 9/40/45/357. I was simply asking a hypothetical question. If hardball was the only ammo available (you didn't cast or reload) what caliber would you prefer? You have already answered, and a common sense answer it was too. I won't totally agree with you but I carry 9mm when I need something smaller size wise than my G27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Just now, Citra47 said: I was simply asking a hypothetical question. If hardball was the only ammo available (you didn't cast or reload) what caliber would you prefer? You have already answered, and a common sense answer it was too. I won't totally agree with you but I carry 9mm when I need something smaller size wise than my G27. If it was hardball only I'd go with 40. It's a flat nose and I'd guess more effective than a round 45 or pointy 9mm. At least Delta seem to think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citra47 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, c10bonanza said: The .40 i shot was some S&W Sigma piece of crap with the worst trigger I’ve ever used (worse than a Gen 1 LCP!). I’m sure that didn’t help! I feel for you. I was dumb enough to buy the little pocket Sigma years ago. I didn't put a trigger scale on it but I figured the trigger was somewhere north of 15 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c10bonanza Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Citra47 said: I feel for you. I was dumb enough to buy the little pocket Sigma years ago. I didn't put a trigger scale on it but I figured the trigger was somewhere north of 15 lbs. Fortunately this one wasn’t mine. A friend bought it and complained it wasn’t accurate. I couldn’t hit anything either with that atrocious trigger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G26S239 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Decline? I started last year with eight 40 S&W guns and picked up another P2000sk so mine have actually increased by 12.5% since January 2017. As for the snappy recoil claims, if firing a 40 makes you flinch don't even consider an SP101 or K frame 357 magnum because either might cause PTSD. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crockett Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) .40 Short & Weak was made for female FBI agents bitching about the full power tens. Compromises always suck. The 9 mm with modern loads and projectiles is adequate, easy too shoot, provides more rounds in the same package, and many pistols are perfectly concealable, even in pocket carry. For everything else there is the ten, and it's coming back for a good reason. Better barrier penetration, better for home defense where pistol / mag size don't matter, better for handgun hunting, better for reloading, better for hot reloads - well past the none existent +P+ category, flatter trajectory / better accuracy. The .40 was a lame compromise only the FBI asked for. Edited September 10, 2018 by crockett 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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