Police Georgia police defend tasing 87-year-old grandmother

[Andyd]

4 minutes ago, pipedreams said:

Well, from the safety of my keyboard I think a bit more patience from the officers might of resolved the problem rather than elder abuse.

"According to a copy of the 911 call published by a television station, the club employee reported that he could see the woman on the property with a knife and that she did not appear to speak English. “She’s old, so she can’t get around too well,” he said.

“But she came at someone with a knife, right?” the dispatcher asked. “Or did she just have it?”

“She didn’t try to attack anybody or anything,” the employee said. “It looks like she is walking around looking for something, vegetation to cut down or something. She has a bag, too.”"

 

https://newschannel9.com/news/local/who-is-the-87-year-old-woman-behind-this-chatsworth-police-mugshot

https://newschannel9.com/news/local/elderly-woman-tased-by-chatsworth-police-on-friday

Patience would have definitely helped but also somebody confident in his physical skills and keeping his cool might have deescalated this low-threat situation without resorting to tasering an 87 year old woman. Since the advent of BLM and the attacks on Dallas police officers in 2016, many officers are glad when they make it back home safely to their families at the end of their shift and they are not willing to run any risk but follow protocol.  When we look at the fact, that another officer had drawn his gun, it does shed another light on the situation, though. I still think that tasering was milder use of force, than a hit on the arm with an extendable steel baton to have made her drop her knife, the taser inflicts pain by locking muscles into spasms and the less muscle a person has, the less painful it actually is. Not understanding English and verbal commands is a moot point after one officer drew his gun. 

More and more police academies are requiring new recruits to have at least an associate or bachelor degree and starting pay isn't great, particularly when you consider that rookies usually work the worst shifts for a couple of years. Hopefully this policy will help to improve the quality of the police force and also improve public relations. In my son's police academy there was a former teacher, a Ranger, an ex-CIA officer, and an accountant. A great departure from the stereotype of the donut eating cop.

[M&P15T]

1 hour ago, pipedreams said:

Well, from the safety of my keyboard I think a bit more patience from the officers might of resolved the problem rather than elder abuse.

"According to a copy of the 911 call published by a television station, the club employee reported that he could see the woman on the property with a knife and that she did not appear to speak English. “She’s old, so she can’t get around too well,” he said.

“But she came at someone with a knife, right?” the dispatcher asked. “Or did she just have it?”

“She didn’t try to attack anybody or anything,” the employee said. “It looks like she is walking around looking for something, vegetation to cut down or something. She has a bag, too.”"

 

https://newschannel9.com/news/local/who-is-the-87-year-old-woman-behind-this-chatsworth-police-mugshot

https://newschannel9.com/news/local/elderly-woman-tased-by-chatsworth-police-on-friday

Yeaaah........that seals the deal.

 

The cops were morons.

[pipedreams]

24 minutes ago, M&P15T said:

Yeaaah........that seals the deal.

 

The cops were morons.

No the cops were not morons and I didn't say that.

[M&P15T]

4 minutes ago, pipedreams said:

No the cops were not morons and I didn't say that.

I didn't post that you said anything. I'm very capable of having my own opinions and stating them clearly.

The cops were morons. If you disagree, that's fine.

[TBO]

6 hours ago, willie-pete said:

Well, from the safety of my keyboard I can tell the guy with all the slash marks on his back to not let anybody sneak up on him like that again. IOTTMCO

 

Or does his front look worse than his back?

You can get those types of cuts on your back from someone in front of you.

 

 

[TBO]

The vast majority of people have no idea how deadly/dangerous a knife is. 

Quote

According to the FBI, only 10% of officers who were shot died from their wounds, whereas 30% of officers who were stabbed died from their wounds.

Fatal penetration is quite shallow in several areas on the body.  One stab can equal a quick bleed out. 

[willie-pete]

47 minutes ago, TBO said:

You can get those types of cuts on your back from someone in front of you.

 

 

 Not if you are careful.

[TBO]

4 minutes ago, willie-pete said:

 Not if you are careful.

Correct, if you behind your keyboard you are not likely to risk being attacked. 

If you are a Cop who arrests people for a living, that means  you get hands on with resistive/assaultive people who can go from unarmed to armed as you make physical contact with them.  

[willie-pete]

1 hour ago, TBO said:

Correct, if you behind your keyboard you are not likely to risk being attacked. 

If you are a Cop who arrests people for a living, that means  you get hands on with resistive/assaultive people who can go from unarmed to armed as you make physical contact with them.  

Keyboard commando?      Good one,  never heard that one before.

 

I am willing to bet I have come up against smarter bad guys than you have. Especially when the Wing Command Post calls and  says

" Captain, DO NOT SHOOT any of those people coming through your blast doors. "  with four guns aimed at the door for the uninvited guests. I was sitting at a keyboard at the time - well not a computer; more like a typewriter.  

 And when I was cross-training into the SP field and the SP commander said " Shoot anybody shooting at you "  when we were convoying the hydrogen bomb. ( if we had had a hydrogen bomb   ).

 

That's where they told me the story of the State Police guy that got hand-cuffed with his own cuffs for cutting into a convoy. Now that guy was as sharp as a marble.

[TBO]

10 minutes ago, willie-pete said:

Keyboard commando?      Good one,  never heard that one before.

 

I am willing to bet I have come up against smarter bad guys than you have. Especially when the Wing Command Post calls and  says

" Captain, DO NOT SHOOT any of those people coming through your blast doors. "  with four guns aimed at the door for the uninvited guests. I was sitting at a keyboard at the time - well not a computer; more like a typewriter.  

 And when I was cross-training into the SP field and the SP commander said " Shoot anybody shooting at you "  when we were convoying the hydrogen bomb. ( if we had had a hydrogen bomb   ).

 

That's where they told me the story of the State Police guy that got hand-cuffed with his own cuffs for cutting into a convoy. Now that guy was as sharp as a marble.

None of that refutes my post/point, or adds anything to yours. 

 

Sincerely 

[willie-pete]

Nor yours;

 

be more careful.

[TBO]

13 minutes ago, willie-pete said:

Nor yours;

 

be more careful.

Is it your opinion that LE can be 100% risk free?

[C_Hallbert]

No the cops were not morons and I didn't say that.

Yes. The Cops were morons. The degree of professionalism, situational analysis and the intelligence level demonstrated were off the scale, subliminally.


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[Wyzz Kydd]

I think calling them morons is a bit extreme. 

 

From the safety of my keyboard I think it could have probably been handled without tasing a woman who is almost 90 years old particularly given the transcript of what the caller reported the problem to be.  I could be wrong, perhaps she menaced them in some way.  Perhaps she's an extremely spry old woman, or perhaps this is one of those rare occasions when LE messed up.  I think it's rare for that to happen, but LEO are human, they make mistakes.

 

Reflexively supporting every action LE takes is just as wrong as reflexively condemning every action LE takes.  It's certainly not a credibility enhancer.  

I start from the position that the vast majority of LE are good people trying to do a difficult job with very little support and even less appreciation, BUT I also recognize that some of them have poor training and/or are unsuited for the job, just like people in virtually every profession there is.

[C_Hallbert]

I think calling them morons is a bit extreme. 
 
From the safety of my keyboard I think it could have probably been handled without tasing a woman who is almost 90 years old particularly given the transcript of what the caller reported the problem to be.  I could be wrong, perhaps she menaced them in some way.  Perhaps she's an extremely spry old woman, or perhaps this is one of those rare occasions when LE messed up.  I think it's rare for that to happen, but LEO are human, they make mistakes.
 
Reflexively supporting every action LE takes is just as wrong as reflexively condemning every action LE takes.  It's certainly not a credibility enhancer.  
I start from the position that the vast majority of LE are good people trying to do a difficult job with very little support and even less appreciation, BUT I also recognize that some of them have poor training and/or are unsuited for the job, just like people in virtually every profession there is.

When I am a Moron, I admit it like I was a Moron earlier in this thread when I erroneously posted that she was assaulted on her own property.


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[willie-pete]

1 hour ago, TBO said:

Is it your opinion that LE can be 100% risk free?

Of course not; but they can better their odds of not getting cut like that guy did. First on the list would be some MA training.   In the first few months you've got enough to put people on their ass ; unless they know it too, of course.

[TBO]

7 minutes ago, willie-pete said:

Of course not; but they can better their odds of not getting cut like that guy did. First on the list would be some MA training.   In the first few months you've got enough to put people on their ass ; unless they know it too, of course.

Knives are very dangerous, even in the hands of an unskilled/untrained attacker. 

[willie-pete]

Well, IMO, someone with that attitude may well have already lost the fight.

[TBO]

3 minutes ago, willie-pete said:

Well, IMO, someone with that attitude may well have already lost the fight.

Said like someone with an opinion, but no real knowledge about edged weapons. 

[Wyzz Kydd]

31 minutes ago, willie-pete said:

Well, IMO, someone with that attitude may well have already lost the fight.

So you should approach a situation involving an armed opponent with the attitude that they and their weapon(s) aren’t very dangerous? 

Being afraid, or merely very concerned, about a physical confrontation provokes different reactions in different people, classic fight or flight.

Scare some people and they flee or become immobilized. Scare others enough and get badly hurt or killed.

I know fear makes me angry and being rushed while afraid prompts me to default to the most aggressive response available.

[Walt Longmire]

1 hour ago, TBO said:

Knives are very dangerous, even in the hands of an unskilled/untrained attacker. 

There ya go, blaming knives just for being knives.....and sharp.

[Walt Longmire]

54 minutes ago, TBO said:

Said like someone with an opinion, but no real knowledge about edged weapons. 

Let's not overlook 'pointy' also.

[Walt Longmire]

21 minutes ago, Wyzz Kydd said:

 

I know fear makes me angry and being rushed while afraid prompts me to default to the most aggressive response available.

Same here. When bears rush me I get angry and go all ninja aggressive on them. It's worked pretty well so far. 

[fortyofforty]

2 hours ago, Wyzz Kydd said:

I think calling them morons is a bit extreme. 

 

From the safety of my keyboard I think it could have probably been handled without tasing a woman who is almost 90 years old particularly given the transcript of what the caller reported the problem to be.  I could be wrong, perhaps she menaced them in some way.  Perhaps she's an extremely spry old woman, or perhaps this is one of those rare occasions when LE messed up.  I think it's rare for that to happen, but LEO are human, they make mistakes.

 

Reflexively supporting every action LE takes is just as wrong as reflexively condemning every action LE takes.  It's certainly not a credibility enhancer.  

I start from the position that the vast majority of LE are good people trying to do a difficult job with very little support and even less appreciation, BUT I also recognize that some of them have poor training and/or are unsuited for the job, just like people in virtually every profession there is.

It's wrong to always support every action taken by anyone, law enforcement, military, or anyone else.  However, if I hear about a shooting or civilian casualties, I do not reflexively default to "the cop murdered that person" or "the soldier murdered that civilian" or "the pilot purposely dropped the bomb on that hospital".  No.  I generally think that people in those protect and serve positions try to do the right thing.  I generally give them the benefit of the doubt until I learn facts that prove they were in the wrong.  America killed tens of thousands of civilians in World War II, but not on purpose.  Dead is dead, for their families, of course.

[Wyzz Kydd]

13 minutes ago, Walt Longmire said:

Same here. When bears rush me I get angry and go all ninja aggressive on them. It's worked pretty well so far. 

I think the probability of me being rushed by a bear (or a lion or an elephant or Sasquatch) are pretty close to zero but I have been rushed by human beings a few times and that’s what I was referring to.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Wyzz Kydd