The Sig P320, and why I sold mine

[mlk18]

I am not here to rip on the P320 or convince you not to buy one, just passing on my personal experience. I have been a long time M&P fan and have several of them in all shapes and sizes. Eventually I got bored and decided to see if there was something better out there. I picked up a P320C and became a fan very quickly. The trigger was very good, the ergos were very good, and it was very accurate/reliable. Everything you want in a gun. The modularity was cool, it was also however overrated. Who wants a single gun and a bunch of parts? Not me. I want multiple guns. I eventually owned a full size, carry, compact, compact FDE, and subcompact all in 9mm. Yes they all had the weird dry fire double click, no I did not notice it one bit when actually shooting the guns. I hate Siglite night sights with a passion so I swapped them all out for Ameriglos and Dawsons. I eventually started carrying the compact as my EDC. Life was good. Especially since I got into the P320 before the Army, the Oklahoma State Police, and the Texas DPS. I got into them when you could actually buy grip modules and spare parts.

Then the drop safety issue came into being, followed by the voluntary upgrade. Did not bother me in the least. I am not careless with my guns and the chance of my dropping it just right were so infinitesimally small that it really was a non-issue. I continued to carry my P320C. I did however decide to send them in for the upgrade, if nothing else to retain some resale value and mitigate liability if I did sell them. That's when I discovered that Sig's customer service was like dealing with a drunken Maxine Waters who just read a mean tweet from the POTUS. I am going to spare you all the details, but it included a total of 9 months of waiting, a lost gun, more excuses than Hillary Clinton, a few desperate and dishonest attempts to blame FedEx, a repaired gun that no long worked properly, a gun that came back sans the sights, customer service that would make Comcast laugh out loud, a trigger that was suddenly 3lbs heavier, and one lost customer. It was even more maddening to read about people having the opposite experience while I was suffering through mine. Every gun maker produces a lemon, most end up with a recall at some point, and every gun maker fails a customer at some point. It was just apparently my turn at Sig and they unloaded on me with both barrels. If you love Sig and the P320, then more power to you. Like I said this was just about my experience. I still like the P320 and still consider it to be a very good firearm. But the company itself and I have parted ways for good.

My old M&P's came back out and went right back into the carry rotation, in fact I found that I had a new appreciation for the low bore axis and ergos. Somehow spending some time with the P320 made me a better shooter with those S&W's too. Once in hand and proven reliable all of my Sig's but one went up for sale, and I picked up some M2.0 Smith & Wesson's to replace them (a good move on part as it turns out). The one Sig I didn't sell had to go back for more work. More frustratingly slow work with horrible communication and delivery issues. Now that P320F just sits in the safe and will continue to. It's my range toy reminder that the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Seeing all the issues Sig is now having with the P365 has made me feel even better about my decision. YMMV.

Edited July 8, 2018 by mlk18
Proof read it twice before posting, still had to edit. Grrrrr.

[crockett]

I wish we as the consumers could vote that stupid CEO out. That's all I have to say. I'm also done with Sig USA.

[Boogieman]

51 minutes ago, crockett said:

I wish we as the consumers could vote that stupid CEO out. That's all I have to say. I'm also done with Sig USA.

We can.  By not supporting SIG USA until they raise their standards.

[mlk18]

I should also point out that Sig, like H&K, saves their gentle kisses and warm snuggles for law enforcement and military sales. Our Sig LE rep is clearly a company all-star while the public sales rep was probably fired by United Airlines for lowering the curve too far. My department issues Sig (thanks to a government official with a pension for all things Sig) but gives us the option of using an approved gun by other makers. When the P320 recall happened they called us immediately and had brand new manufactured gun in our hands very quickly. Guns that were all test fired and ready to go. New guns that sure seem to have tighter tolerances and better finish than my P320's did. Communication was impeccable and they continued to follow up to ensure we remained satisfied. So it seems dealing with Sig as a LE agency gets you special treatment, dealing with them on a personal level gets you special ed treatment. I am pretty sure the reps I dealt with were all wearing helmets anyway.

[willieH]

It's interesting some folks have this animous for Sig's CEO for being successful. Colt and Remington Outdoor Company managements have a proven track record of poor decision making and bankruptcies. I've also heard the stories of S&W revolvers are a washed-out MIM image of yesteryears superior guns. Yet, it is Mr. Cohen who managed a successful Kimber before reorganizing Sig, that incidentally was in dire financial straits before his hiring, is somehow a villain that destroyed Sig.

My perspective may be narrow, I've only been seriously into firearms for ten years or so. At one time I was persuaded by the chatter of better quality of German vs American made guns. I proved for myself that was a myth, at least for the P228 and P220 series of pistols. I bought and shot side-by-side these guns and concluded there was virtually no performance differences. Most parts are interchangeable and I prefered the features of the Exeter made guns. 

I'm not making excuses for inadequate customer service the OP stated in his post. It was this unfortunate experience turning a good customer into one with bitterness toward the entire company. However, my couple experiences with Sig CS has been more than satisfactory. And yes, I do own a few Sigs from both continents. 

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by willieH

[Collim1]

Long time Sig fan. I bought a P320 in .45 when they were first released. 

It was reliable and accurate. I actually liked it, but eventually got bored with it. I wasn’t terribly attached to it.  I sent it in for the upgrade and sold it to a local shop.

Sig should be ashamed at the cost of their spare magazines.  Lowering price point and trying to make it up with $47 MSRP mags in’s despicable IMO. 

I replaced it with a G21. Not sure I like it better. I’m just not real big on striker fired polymer guns I guess. 

I for one don’t think the Army made a bad choice. I have enough experience time with the P320 to know they work.  

Personally I think one of the updated versions of the Beretta would have been the best choice. It could have been slowly and steadily replacing the older guns over the next few years without the fiasco of a brand new gun being adopted. 

[mlk18]

I agree that the P320 will serve the military well. It's a pretty solid gun with tons of features. Sounds like all the branches are adopting it, including the coast guard. Several big PD's have also approved it now and a few foreign governments and militaries have also adopted it. I am sure in part because just like Glock did in the old days, Sig is offering it up at a very attractive price point.

That being said I am pretty sure if Glock would have submitted a gun with "modular features" as required by MHS trials and put in a reasonable bid price-wise they would have won. But instead they submitted a Glock with no modular features and the same pointless back straps that come with their standard Gen4 models. The Army specifically wanted something that would comfortably fit the hands of pretty much all service men and women, not something that added or took away 2mm's. They were pretty specific about that, but whoever the decision makers are at Glock Inc. are still somehow baffled and confused by grip shape and modularity requirements. Sort of like how Hillary still can't figure out who's fault it is that she lost the election.

[MikeG36]

I have two Sigs. A West German P228 and a P320C. I had the voluntary upgrade - recall mods done on mine. It shoots fine. I just don't trust it anymore. It's now a range toy which is a shame. I bought extra grip frames including a subcompact grip frame and magazine. I also invested in a custom Kydex holster. The whole thing makes me sick. My West German is a keeper but the P320C, I haven't decided on yet.

Edited July 10, 2018 by MikeG36

[Bucky]

On 7/7/2018 at 9:07 PM, mlk18 said:

customer service that would make Comcast laugh out loud,

I’ve had nothing but exceptional service from Comcast, and I’ve used them many times over the years. Smith and Wesson, not so much. YMMV. 

[Bucky]

On 7/8/2018 at 12:04 PM, mlk18 said:

agree that the P320 will serve the military well. It's a pretty solid gun with tons of features. Sounds like all the branches are adopting it, including the coast guard. Several big PD's have also approved it now and a few foreign governments and militaries have also adopted it. I am sure in part because just like Glock did in the old days, Sig is offering it up at a very attractive price point.

Let me throw this out there, and I’m not being rhetorical, I’m open to thoughts / opinions. What’s the difference between carrying a P320, and say a Beretta 92FS with the hammer cocked? Note, I’m excluding the military models, as they have the manual safety. However, it seems most PDs are adopting models without the safety. I guess the same could be said about other fully cocked striker guns, but Sig went the additional step of eliminating the trigger safety.