Politics It's Getting Close to the Point of Nuking North Korea

[AK_Stick]

America simply isn’t going to use nuclear weapons preemptively. 

 

The DMZ is 150 some miles wide. And NK has been building hardened positions for 50 years. 

Even with reduced fallout you’re talking a considerable amount of fall out to neutralize weapons across that length. And that’s without considering that the entire time we’re bombing those sites, the rest will be firing on Seoul. And if we go nuclear first, they will respond with nukes and bio/chem weapons that will kill even more civilians. 

 

 

[fortyofforty]

1 hour ago, AK_Stick said:

And while their fighters are being destroyed, Seoul and SK is being shelled into the history books. 

 

Cluster munitions and Moab’s can not be used to defeat hardened positions.

 

NK has had nukes for a long time, and they haven’t given any up. Suggesting they’re going to start is silly. 

Funny, that's what MOABs were designed to do.  The tunnels and underground facilities would be devoid of life.  Interesting understanding of military hardware you have there.

What would you do if NK fired one shell into Seoul?

[fortyofforty]

53 minutes ago, AK_Stick said:

America simply isn’t going to use nuclear weapons preemptively. 

 

The DMZ is 150 some miles wide. And NK has been building hardened positions for 50 years. 

Even with reduced fallout you’re talking a considerable amount of fall out to neutralize weapons across that length. And that’s without considering that the entire time we’re bombing those sites, the rest will be firing on Seoul. And if we go nuclear first, they will respond with nukes and bio/chem weapons that will kill even more civilians. 

 

 

Maybe not, but without that threat our posturing is meaningless.  Enjoy NK and Iran joining forces even more than they already are.  Off go the weapons.

[AK_Stick]

11 minutes ago, fortyofforty said:

Funny, that's what MOABs were designed to do.  The tunnels and underground facilities would be devoid of life.  Interesting understanding of military hardware you have there.

What would you do if NK fired one shell into Seoul?

 

MOAB’s were not designed to be delivered by cargo planes into a theater with a complex and well integrated air defense network. 

 

NK has a very complex and capable air defense network. 

 

 

It was also procured  in very small numbers, and is one of the slowest delivery systems we possess. That you would suggest MOAB’s as a useful weapon in neutralizing hardened underground artillery positions suggests your knowledge of military hardware is indeed quite lacking. 

 

Specially following your incorrect statements about nuclear weapon fingerprinting. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by AK_Stick

[AK_Stick]

2 minutes ago, fortyofforty said:

Maybe not, but without that threat our posturing is meaningless.  Enjoy NK and Iran joining forces even more than they already are.  Off go the weapons.

 

That is shall we say, unlikely. 

[willie-pete]

4 hours ago, AK_Stick said:

America simply isn’t going to use nuclear weapons preemptively. 

 

 

This President? , I’m not so sure.

We have never had the option of low yield, minimal falllout , 30 meter CEP before recently.  

This is exactly the target the B61-12 was developed for; probably what the analyst following NK was hoping he would get in his Christmas stocking. 

 

[willie-pete]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-nkorea-closer-war-ever-former-us-military-193839990.html

[fortyofforty]

19 hours ago, AK_Stick said:

 

MOAB’s were not designed to be delivered by cargo planes into a theater with a complex and well integrated air defense network. 

 

NK has a very complex and capable air defense network. 

 

 

It was also procured  in very small numbers, and is one of the slowest delivery systems we possess. That you would suggest MOAB’s as a useful weapon in neutralizing hardened underground artillery positions suggests your knowledge of military hardware is indeed quite lacking. 

 

Specially following your incorrect statements about nuclear weapon fingerprinting. 

That's why I specifically said once the air power was destroyed.  Remember?

[fortyofforty]

19 hours ago, AK_Stick said:

 

That is shall we say, unlikely. 

Well, that makes me feel, shall we say, much better.

Iranian-North Korean talks raise specter of cooperation on military, ballistic missile technology

Edited January 1, 2018 by fortyofforty

[AK_Stick]

6 hours ago, fortyofforty said:

That's why I specifically said once the air power was destroyed.  Remember?

That will take days or weeks to establish air superiority and supress air defenses to the point a C-130 can fly over to drop ordnance. 

 

 

That entire time they’ll be shelling SK... 

 

[fortyofforty]

5 hours ago, AK_Stick said:

That will take days or weeks to establish air superiority and supress air defenses to the point a C-130 can fly over to drop ordnance. 

 

 

That entire time they’ll be shelling SK... 

 

With what?  Every time an artillery piece comes out, it gets hit.  The entire time.

What a wonderful world it is, thanks to the ineffectual sanctions and sanctimonious speechmakers.

As Kim said yesterday:

Quote

"The US cannot wage a war against our country at all," Kim added. "The entire mainland of the US is within the range of our nuclear weapons, and the nuclear button is always on the desk of my office. They should accurately be aware that this is not a threat but a reality."

Former Joint Chiefs chairman: Nuclear war with North Korea closer than ever

[AK_Stick]

6 minutes ago, fortyofforty said:

With what?  Every time an artillery piece comes out, it gets hit.  The entire time.

What a wonderful world it is, thanks to the ineffectual sanctions and sanctimonious speechmakers.

As Kim said yesterday:

Former Joint Chiefs chairman: Nuclear war with North Korea closer than ever

 

Except that they don’t have to come out to fire. And the period of vulnerability of some of their systems is less than the time required to drop a precision weapon from 30K feet  

 

And they’ll be firing long before we’ve established air superiority....

 

Your lack of knowledge about military weapons on either side of the issue has handicapped your argument from the outset. 

[fortyofforty]

8 minutes ago, AK_Stick said:

 

Except that they don’t have to come out to fire. And the period of vulnerability of some of their systems is less than the time required to drop a precision weapon from 30K feet  

 

And they’ll be firing long before we’ve established air superiority....

 

Your lack of knowledge about military weapons on either side of the issue has handicapped your argument from the outset. 

Your inability to recognize the capabilities of American munitions and the limitations of North Korean artillery displays an ignorance only surpassed by your arrogance.  It's a dangerous combination.

[AK_Stick]

48 minutes ago, fortyofforty said:

Your inability to recognize the capabilities of American munitions and the limitations of North Korean artillery displays an ignorance only surpassed by your arrogance.  It's a dangerous combination.

 Incorrect. 

But, atleast you’ve been consistent in this thread.  

Edited January 2, 2018 by AK_Stick

[fortyofforty]

9 hours ago, AK_Stick said:

 Incorrect. 

But, atleast you’ve been consistent in this thread.  

Well, that settles it.  

[tsmo1066]

On 1/1/2018 at 7:11 AM, fortyofforty said:

That's why I specifically said once the air power was destroyed.  Remember?

The problem with that is that while we're busy mopping up NK's Air Force (which we can do with no problem at all), those THOUSANDS of hardened artillery positions are pounding the crap out of Seoul.

I see no scenario in a war with NK where Seoul gets out of it without many tens of thousands of deaths.

Edited January 2, 2018 by tsmo1066

[fortyofforty]

Then let's start evacuating Seoul.  Maybe the message would be received in Pyongyang.  Otherwise, Seoul is always going to be held hostage.  NK could launch a shell or two into Seoul today and we'd be too afraid of a massive strike to respond at all.  NK could get away with a lot without real fear of retaliation.

[AK_Stick]

1 hour ago, fortyofforty said:

Then let's start evacuating Seoul.  Maybe the message would be received in Pyongyang.  Otherwise, Seoul is always going to be held hostage.  NK could launch a shell or two into Seoul today and we'd be too afraid of a massive strike to respond at all.  NK could get away with a lot without real fear of retaliation.

Where are you going to evacuate them to?

With what?

For how long?

 

How do you propose they deal with the disruption to their economy from a mass evacuation of Seoul?

[willie-pete]

The other issue is that as soon as the LUFF sees people getting out of Dodge ( Seoul ); he may well do a preemptive strike on the South, Japan, Guam, West Coast, etc. with nukes, biologics and nerve agents assuming he is going to get his ass kicked, when all we were going to do is muss his hair a bit.

 

T

[fortyofforty]

1 hour ago, AK_Stick said:

Where are you going to evacuate them to?

With what?

For how long?

 

How do you propose they deal with the disruption to their economy from a mass evacuation of Seoul?

To the south.

With buses.

Until the North is turned into a glass parking lot.

The same way we would deal with the disruption to their economy if North Korea launched even one missile or artillery shell into Seoul.

Anything else?

What would you propose the response be if NK launched one missile over the United States that caused an EMP but no direct deaths?  What would you propose the response be if a weapon we think probably came most likely from NK was used by a terrorist group against us or one of our allies?  What would you propose we do if a biological or chemical weapon we think probably came most likely from NK was used by a terrorist group against us or one of our allies?

[fortyofforty]

46 minutes ago, willie-pete said:

The other issue is that as soon as the LUFF sees people getting out of Dodge ( Seoul ); he may well do a preemptive strike on the South, Japan, Guam, West Coast, etc. with nukes, biologics and nerve agents assuming he is going to get his ass kicked, when all we were going to do is muss his hair a bit.

 

T

If you believe the fat little hostage-taker would be worried that some of his hostages are taken away and is willing to launch a preemptive strike, it says a lot about the entire situation, doesn't it?  I'm not sure it's a good way to exist long term, even for the proposed hostages.

[willie-pete]

The only real solution is for someone to cap his ass and hope the next guy is better.  I don't think anyone can devise a military solution that does not involve the possibility of a lot of Americans, Koreans and Japanese dying.

Edited January 3, 2018 by willie-pete

[AK_Stick]

1 hour ago, fortyofforty said:

To the south.

With buses.

Until the North is turned into a glass parking lot.

The same way we would deal with the disruption to their economy if North Korea launched even one missile or artillery shell into Seoul.

Anything else?

 

Where in the south? Where are you going to move 10 MILLION people?

 

How are you going to house/feed them?

 

Have you ever seen the roads in Korea?

 

 

This is another unfeasible plan of action.

[fortyofforty]

1 hour ago, AK_Stick said:

Where in the south? Where are you going to move 10 MILLION people?

 

How are you going to house/feed them?

 

Have you ever seen the roads in Korea?

 

 

This is another unfeasible plan of action.

Are you going to answer my questions?  It's your turn.

[AK_Stick]

I think to be fair, you should at least answer one question before you demand an answer to anything else.

 

Thus far, you've posted not a single concise, accurate, factual thing in this entire thread. You simply make generic nonsensical, nonfactual generalities and then pretend you've offered some sort of realistic answer to the proposed problem.

 

I.e. I'd move everyone south. With buses.

 

 

America's position on what we would do in retaliation for use of a WMD on us or our allies is quite clear. I don't really think anyone needs me to say, we'd retaliate with the full capability of our military if they hit us with a WMD.

 

 

But there, I've answered what I would do if they used a WMD.

 

 

 

 

Now would you expound with some realistic options of how we would relocate more than 10 million people, where they would go, and how we would feed them/how SK could continue to operate an economy, since that seems to be your proposed plan of action to clear the area prior to going live with the 4th largest military in the world.