Politics It's Getting Close to the Point of Nuking North Korea

[fortyofforty]

We apparently have discovered anthrax antibodies in a North Korean military defector.  North Korea is actively trying to mount an anthrax delivery system on missiles.  If North Korea is immunizing its military against anthrax, it's pretty clear what its intentions are regarding South Korea and the United States.  China and Russia should be given official notice of potential missile launches not being intended for China or Russia.  The time is growing short, I'm afraid.

North Korean defector had anthrax antibodies in system, report says

[ASH]

we have the people, technology , logistics  and know how   to sneak in an assassin  and quiety  take him out .  he does not hide . matter off fact we need to get in touch with the killer he uses to kill some of his family from time to time . 

a war is lose lose  . 

[AK_Stick]

2 hours ago, fortyofforty said:

We apparently have discovered anthrax antibodies in a North Korean military defector.  North Korea is actively trying to mount an anthrax delivery system on missiles.  If North Korea is immunizing its military against anthrax, it's pretty clear what its intentions are regarding South Korea and the United States.  China and Russia should be given official notice of potential missile launches not being intended for China or Russia.  The time is growing short, I'm afraid.

North Korean defector had anthrax antibodies in system, report says

How many million innocent Koreans are you willing to condem, to avert possibly killing millions of Koreans?

[Vikingsoftpaw]

The rumors of war are greatly exaggerated.  This courtesy of the MSM.

[Al Czervik]

I have been in business relationships with folks in the South for the better part of 20 years or more.  They understand their position and the ramifications of war, very much more than do we.

But, weaponized bioagents with the credible threat of use by the North is not something they take lightly.  They are going to want a preemptive solution.  

[jame]

29 minutes ago, Vikingsoftpaw said:

The rumors of war are greatly exaggerated.  This courtesy of the MSM.

Amen.

If there's something big brewing, North Korea will find a way to **** it up.

Just because the little drunk guy in a bar pulls a gun, it doesn't mean anyone is going to get shot.  It just means that eventually, the little drunk guy will get his ass kicked.

[janice6]

Quote

 

Remember Sadaam

[ASH]

the games are behind the games  and that game is in a secret room  behind other rooms  .   do not think for one second that kim jong could not be taken out at anytime. there are reasons he is still alive  

[G19Tony]

I have anthrax antibodies in me. We were given the immunizations during Desert Storm. I'm sure there gone by now, but I had them at one point.

[ASH]

6 minutes ago, G19Tony said:

I have anthrax antibodies in me. We were given the immunizations during Desert Storm. I'm sure there gone by now, but I had them at one point.

no wonder your music taste sucks  roflmao

[fortyofforty]

7 hours ago, Al Czervik said:

I have been in business relationships with folks in the South for the better part of 20 years or more.  They understand their position and the ramifications of war, very much more than do we.

But, weaponized bioagents with the credible threat of use by the North is not something they take lightly.  They are going to want a preemptive solution.  

Which is my point.  All signs point to North Korea attempting to weaponize anthrax, which should be more than a little worrisome to South Korea and Japan.  Many on the Fa-Left would rather keep appeasing North Korea, hoping to prostrate their countries to the point where North Korea won't attack out of the goodness of their hearts.  Many tried that in 1940; it didn't work.

[fortyofforty]

7 hours ago, ASH said:

the games are behind the games  and that game is in a secret room  behind other rooms  .   do not think for one second that kim jong could not be taken out at anytime. there are reasons he is still alive  

Yes, and there are so many games within games within games that we don't even realize that Kim is actually living in Chinatown, running a Korean restaurant.  There are doors that lead to doors that lead to doors.  Deep thoughts.

[AK_Stick]

11 hours ago, G19Tony said:

I have anthrax antibodies in me. We were given the immunizations during Desert Storm. I'm sure there gone by now, but I had them at one point.

I would imagine a decent number of our current military do.

 

 

I certainly do.

[willie-pete]

NK is thought to have one of the biggest biological/nerve gas programs in the world.  Killing his brother with VX was probably a not so subtle message to the world.

[fortyofforty]

South Korea will bear the brunt of any NK aggression, unfortunately for them.

[devildog2067]

On 12/26/2017 at 5:42 PM, fortyofforty said:

We apparently have discovered anthrax antibodies in a North Korean military defector.  North Korea is actively trying to mount an anthrax delivery system on missiles.  If North Korea is immunizing its military against anthrax, it's pretty clear what its intentions are regarding South Korea and the United States

I have anthrax antibodies in me. The US Marine Corps immunized me against anthrax, in 2002. North Korea's intentions were never in doubt, since they say literally all the time that they plan to destroy the Republic of Korea and the United States.

Edited December 28, 2017 by devildog2067

[fortyofforty]

So do we wait until they have the capability to actually do so?  Civilians are immunized.  South Korean troops aren't immunized.  It would be ugly.

[devildog2067]

23 minutes ago, fortyofforty said:

So do we wait until they have the capability to actually do so?  Civilians are immunized.  South Korean troops aren't immunized.  It would be ugly.

So how many innocent Koreans are we willing to murder, to prevent the murder of innocent Koreans?

[fortyofforty]

13 hours ago, devildog2067 said:

So how many innocent Koreans are we willing to murder, to prevent the murder of innocent Koreans?

As many as we murdered innocent Germans, innocent Japanese, innocent French, innocent Dutch, innocent Afghans, innocent Iraqis, innocent Syrians, and every other person who was, personally, innocent of any bad behavior but who died as a direct result of decisions made by a hostile power.  If your answer is zero, then you live in fantasyland.

[devildog2067]

4 hours ago, fortyofforty said:

As many as we murdered innocent Germans, innocent Japanese, innocent French, innocent Dutch, innocent Afghans, innocent Iraqis, innocent Syrians, and every other person who was, personally, innocent of any bad behavior but who died as a direct result of decisions made by a hostile power.  If your answer is zero, then you live in fantasyland.

I was a Marine Corps infantryman. I carried a rifle and a radio. I know very well what it costs. How many combat deployments do you have?

These are not decisions being made by a "hostile power". They are decisions being made by a single, crazy dictator and the power structures that were put into place by his family. Power structures which, by the way, the US created with General Order 1.

If you want to argue we need to go to war against North Korea to protect Americans, fine. I happen to disagree with you, but that at least motivation makes sense. But to argue that we need to go to war against North Korea to protect South Korea is beyond insane. The first hour of that war would kill something like 10 million South Koreans, just because one day in the mid 1940's someone asked Dean Rusk to draw a line across the map and Seoul is within artillery range of that line. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by devildog2067

[fortyofforty]

5 hours ago, devildog2067 said:

I was a Marine Corps infantryman. I carried a rifle and a radio. I know very well what it costs. How many combat deployments do you have?

These are not decisions being made by a "hostile power". They are decisions being made by a single, crazy dictator and the power structures that were put into place by his family. Power structures which, by the way, the US created with General Order 1.

If you want to argue we need to go to war against North Korea to protect Americans, fine. I happen to disagree with you, but that at least motivation makes sense. But to argue that we need to go to war against North Korea to protect South Korea is beyond insane. The first hour of that war would kill something like 10 million South Koreans, just because one day in the mid 1940's someone asked Dean Rusk to draw a line across the map and Seoul is within artillery range of that line. 

Wow, tough guy.  You're a real hero.  You have no idea what I have done or what I do right now.  Are you so ignorant that you think only someone who has fought in combat is entitled to analyze foreign policy and make judgments based on historical study and data?  How much have you studied North Korea?  How much history do you know about the Korean War?  How many people have you personally killed in one-on-one combat?  For the vast majority of veterans, the answer is zero.  Yet, every veteran thinks he has all the answers.  Sorry.  That doesn't fly with me.  I've met plenty of ignorant veterans who live with their heads up their asses.

It's the easiest thing in the world to blame America for creating the situation in North Korea.  You aren't the first America-hating Marine Corps veteran, and you won't be the last.  You can wrap yourself in the mantle veteran and pretend it somehow validates your opinions, but with me it doesn't.  Your opinions must be based on history and facts, not emotion.

In war, innocent people die.  Can you name one war where that didn't happen?  Do you know how many French civilians died in Caen so that America could liberate French civilians in Caen?  Does it matter to you?  War only requires one person to desire war.  America-haters prevented the United States from being decades ahead of where we are in terms of missile defense.  As the direct result of America-hating Democrats Ronald Reagan was blocked and mocked every time he wanted to push ahead on missile defense.  Democrats, the America-hating party, don't care about anything but accumulating power.  So, now one dictator with a missile program can hold us hostage, unless we do something about it.  Are you willing to allow North Korea to threaten Los Angeles unless its demands are met?

Just because Korea was left out of an offhand description of our sphere of influence did not give the Soviet Union free rein to encourage an invasion.  Invading a territory and imposing a dictatorship thereupon is usually not conducive to long term success and happiness.  But here we are.  It's well over a half century later, and the reality is what it is.  We have a dictator in North Korea whose entire regime is dedicated to preserving the power of his dictatorship.  Now what?  He perfects long range missiles.  He perfects deliverable nuclear warheads.  He develops biological weapons that can be mounted on missiles.  Does it end out of good will?  If not, how does that path come to an end?  There is only one country that can stop Kim without force.  One.  Guess which one it is.  And guess what would induce that country to take action.  Facts are facts.  Use them.

Edited December 29, 2017 by fortyofforty

[devildog2067]

1 hour ago, fortyofforty said:

Wow, tough guy.  You're a real hero. 

Never pretended to be. But I did what I did, and if you didn't, well, maybe you should be a bit more careful tossing around "we".

You're a real hero.  You have no idea what I have done or what I do right now.  Are you so ignorant that you think only someone who has fought in combat is entitled to analyze foreign policy and make judgments based on historical study and data? 

Nope. Nor do I care what you do. But I will guess from your response that you are not, in fact, a combat veteran. So you're not really part of the "we" when you talk about all the people "we" have killed or are going to kill.

How much have you studied North Korea?  How much history do you know about the Korean War? 

Well, let's see. I have relatives there. My family is originally from there, and ended up on both sides of the border. My grandparents lost their ancestral land during the war. My parents grew up in the aftermath of the war. I would bet serious money that I know far more about it, from many more different perspectives, than you do.

It's the easiest thing in the world to blame America for creating the situation in North Korea.

It has nothing to do with "easy" -- it's quite literally true. The two officers responsible for partitioning Korea eyeballed it on a National Geographic map, with literally zero knowledge of the place. Things would be a lot simpler if they'd drawn the line a bit further north, someplace where the capital and major metro area of the south wasn't within artillery range of the border.

1 hour ago, fortyofforty said:

It's the easiest thing in the world to blame America for creating the situation in North Korea. You aren't the first America-hating Marine Corps veteran

I don't hate America. I love this nation. I fought for this nation. This nation gave my father and my mother, two strangers who grew up literally hungry in the ashes of the war, the opportunity to build a new life and make a better future for their children.

Understanding history is not "hating America." We created a problem in Korea. We did it for what seemed like good reasons at the time, and the two officers (Charles Bonesteel and Dean Rusk) did the best they could with what they had, which was next to nothing. We were busy fighting the Japanese and the Germans at the time, and trying to head off what was clearly going to be a problem with the Soviets, and drawing a line down the middle of a country that didn't really matter much seemed like an easy way to solve a near term problem. But the reality is that it didn't work out so well, and we are still dealing with the repercussions of it. Not a scrap of "America-hating" in there -- just an understanding of history.

1 hour ago, fortyofforty said:

Your opinions must be based on history and facts, not emotion

That's a laugh coming from you, given that you next say

2 hours ago, fortyofforty said:

America-haters prevented the United States from being decades ahead of where we are in terms of missile defense.

Physics, engineering, and the limits of 1980s technology prevented the US from being 'ahead' of where we are now in missile defense. There's only so much you can do with interceptors based on chemical rockets. We're not even close to cracking the code on lasers powerful enough to shoot down missiles. We're just now building computers capable enough to run radars advanced enough to target inbound ballistic missiles in midcourse. No amount of money spent in the 1980s would have changed that. These are facts, they don't care how you feel, and your emotions don't change them no matter how much you hate Democrats.

2 hours ago, fortyofforty said:

Are you willing to allow North Korea to threaten Los Angeles unless its demands are met?

'Willing' doesn't have much to do with it. As you point out, that's the situation we are in. The real question is, what price are we willing to inflict on Korea in order to change the situation? Are we willing to cause the deaths of 15 or 20 million Koreans? Even if the war (which there's no way North Korea could win) only lasted an hour, there'd be at least 10 million dead in Seoul. There'd be at least 5-10 million more deaths in the widespread famine and social breakdown in North Korea right after, with the regime gone. Are we willing to kill that many people in order to not be threatened? We didn't kill that many Soviets, and they had enough nukes pointed at us to make the rubble bounce, why would we kill that many Koreans? We are being threatened by terrorist groups, why aren't we willing to nuke Yemen flat in order to end that threat if we would kill that many Koreans? What's the difference?  

2 hours ago, fortyofforty said:

We have a dictator in North Korea whose entire regime is dedicated to preserving the power of his dictatorship.  Now what?  He perfects long range missiles.  He perfects deliverable nuclear warheads.  He develops biological weapons that can be mounted on missiles.  Does it end out of good will?  If not, how does that path come to an end?  There is only one country that can stop Kim without force.  One.  Guess which one it is.  And guess what would induce that country to take action.  

We managed to end the Soviet threat, without the use of force, through economic growth. We've ended Communism in China the same way -- they are in some ways more capitalist than we are. Heck, we ended poverty in South Korea that way and now LG and Samsung sell us TVs. America has always done better in the end by exporting goods, knowledge and prosperity than by fighting wars. 

[devildog2067]

I gotta say, I hate the way that quote blocks are handled by this site's software. Makes it really hard to do point by point responses. My apologies, this bit was left out of my post above.

2 hours ago, fortyofforty said:

Just because Korea was left out of an offhand description of our sphere of influence did not give the Soviet Union free rein to encourage an invasion.

When I said the US caused this problem, I wasn't talking about Dean Acheson's speech. The invasion is the fault of the people who invaded. No, I'm talking about the fact that the border is so close to Seoul. There's tens of millions of people and trillions of dollars of industrial infrastructure located within easy tube artillery range of the border. That's the real problem with preemptive strike. No matter what we do, we can't stop that artillery, and those rounds will kill millions inside of 30 minutes.

[TeaDub]

I don't see a preemptive nuclear strike on NK as a viable or good option. In response to the use of WMD by them? Absolutely.

NK has had the ability to kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions, for years. It has not happened. Why? Because Kim knows that his cushy lifestyle would end shortly thereafter. Like it or not, the world is becoming a more dangerous place. I'm pretty surprised that nuclear weapon technology has taken so long to spread. Are we going to make parking lots of every country that makes threats but actually DOES nothing?

My solution is to put financial pressure on China. Real pressure. Make them either take out Kim or have his economy completely crumble. While I don't have quite the ties to SK as @devildog2067, my wife was born and raised in the south. Her family is still there. I tend to follow the news from that side of the world.

[Silentpoet]

It is a shitty situation, but there may not be much choice.  I am aware of how awful it will be, but how awful will a nuclear or biological strike on American soil be?  Lil kim needs killing.  Very possibly the most evil man on the planet.  But it may not yet be time to step on that cockroach.